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Nikolai Kulemin?

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01-02-2013, 10:20 PM
  #226
7even
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Except Neal didn't do it for a whole season. And he was playing with Mark Letestu as his center. And when we acquired him, he was producing well and had a better track record of production than Kulemin.

It's great that Kulemin has value outside of production. But production is what gives him the majority of his value. Like I said, guys with his particulars from last year aren't going to return 1st rounders - probably not guys with his particulars in '07-'08 and '08-'09 either.

But I don't see these discussions going anywhere considering where both sides are at, so I should just drop it, haha. Maatta plus would not fly with me at all.
No. Not at all. I really don't think you understand Nik.

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01-02-2013, 10:21 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
As I said, he has been a ~30 point scorer in 3 of his 4 NHL seasons.

I am not the one focusing on one season.
You said 30 goals was the anomaly and want his trade value to reflect the 7 goal season when he has doubled to quadrupled that total every year but one.

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01-02-2013, 10:28 PM
  #228
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No. Not at all. I really don't think you understand Nik.
Yes, I do - the idea that the player is also big and fast and strong and defensively responsible is not lost on me. Perhaps you missed my earlier post:

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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Kulemin scored 30 goals a couple years ago. No 30 goal winger whose all-around game consists of a minute of PK time a game and a little over a hit per game is going to derive most of his value from his non-productive aspects. Daniel Winnik can emulate Kulemin's non-productive aspects. He's not worth a 1st rounder.

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01-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yes, I do - the idea that the player is also big and fast and strong and defensively responsible is not lost on me. Perhaps you missed my earlier post:
Nikolai Kulemin is just ever so slightly more nuanced than Daniel Winnik.

Besides, Kulemin isn't a 30 goal winger; he's a 15-20 goal guy. His two way game is his forte, and he's damn good at it. You're either undercutting his defensive acumen or arbitrarily ascribing priority to his offensive game. Frankly it's becoming insulting.

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01-02-2013, 10:32 PM
  #230
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
You said 30 goals was the anomaly and want his trade value to reflect the 7 goal season when he has doubled to quadrupled that total every year but one.
Re-read what was written. My assessment was absolutely not based solely on one season. It took into account all of them.

If you can't process this, I'm sorry I won't be able to discuss it with you again. I don't want to have to re-explain my relatively simple position 50,000 times in this thread, and I'm already about halfway there.

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01-02-2013, 10:35 PM
  #231
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Nikolai Kulemin is just ever so slightly more nuanced than Daniel Winnik.
What do you mean? Are you referencing some vague, unquantifiable intangible here?

Size, speed, physicality, defensive responsibility. They're all there, and they all have value. What's not there is the offense. That's the variable that gives Kulemin most of his value.

There is nothing arbitrary about that conclusion. It was reached by process of elimination, comparing a valuable player (Kulemin) to a far less valuable player (Winnik) who possessed each of the qualities you said gave Kulemin the majority of his value.


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