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01-01-2013, 01:11 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
The playoffs?
That is a good one.

Isles and their fans, still wouldn't be interested in having Karlsson as the face of the franchise, instead of JT.

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01-01-2013, 01:53 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
The playoffs?

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01-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #128
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The playoffs?

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01-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #129
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the playoffs?
bahaha

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01-01-2013, 03:52 PM
  #130
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2; Only NYI fans are allowed to create Tavares proposals. 'startainfection' not included.
really guy?

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01-01-2013, 03:57 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
The playoffs?
Hahahahahaha!!!

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01-01-2013, 04:41 PM
  #132
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I'm a huge, huge John Tavares fan. What a horrible proposal. While I believe karlsson has more value, that's exactly what the isles would ask for, and rightfully so.

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01-01-2013, 07:38 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Saying karlsson is better then daughty petro or weber, I kind of ask myself the same question about you that you just asked.
You and a bunch of HF posters surely know better than the pros who voted Karlsson for the Norris? Yet another thread that has turned into a Karlsson pissing contest.

Karlsson’s trade value is in the same level as Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, and Stamkos. As a player, he is the most dominant defenceman - just plays defence differently (yet effectively). This is not a player benefitting from a system or a change in era (post ’05 lockout "New NHL").

It will take a few seasons for the naysayers to lose their weapons. Weber and Chara, for all their great attributes, are not on the same level in terms of trade value. Doughty and Pie will become perennial Norris contenders and they are more traditional in their styles of play - but that don’t make them any better than your reigning Norris winner (the youngest since Orr). Karlsson’s a unique talent - there’s no player like him in the league.

As for the original post, there is no way NYI lets Tavares go for such a package. Call him a superstar, call him overrated, but JT is everything to NYI. He’s what Alfie meant to Ottawa in his prime years. All that at age 22.


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01-01-2013, 08:00 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by armani View Post
You and a bunch of HF posters surely know better than the pros who voted Karlsson for the Norris? Yet another thread that has turned into a Karlsson pissing contest.

Karlsson’s trade value is in the same level as Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, and Stamkos. As a player, he is the most dominant defenceman - just plays defence differently (yet effectively). This is not a player benefitting from a system or a change in era (post ’05 lockout "New NHL").

It will take a few seasons for the naysayers to lose their weapons. Weber and Chara, for all their great attributes, are not on the same level in terms of trade value. Doughty and Pie will become perennial Norris contenders and they are more traditional in their styles of play - but that don’t make them any better than your reigning Norris winner (the youngest since Orr). Karlsson’s a unique talent - there’s no player like him in the league.

As for the original post, there is no way NYI lets Tavares go for such a package. Call him a superstar, call him overrated, but JT is everything to NYI. He’s what Alfie meant to Ottawa in his prime years. All that at age 22.
Very well said. Could not agree more.

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01-02-2013, 12:30 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan17 View Post
Karlsson is awesome, but you have no idea what you're missing out on (also in terms of potential) with Tavares if you would take Karlsson.
You know, even though Karlsson was drafted a year before JT, they are both the same age as 1990's.
It may not have been your intention, but the "potential" comment kinda sounded like you were trying to say JT has an actual advantage in that deparment. Tavares has a lot of room to grow, and I wouldnt be surprised to see him hit triple digit points, but EK isnt done growing his game either.

Erik could keep up his point totals and bring his defense to above average or even good. Think of a ppg Kimmo Timmonen. Anyways, to sum up this thread, they are extremely close in value, and it just comes down to whether you prefer a franchise d-man or forward.

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01-02-2013, 10:57 AM
  #136
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Yeah...the reigning Norris trophy winner at 21 somehow doesn't have the same value as Tavares (who, I fully admit is amazing). The people arguing that Tavares has more value should give their heads a shake.

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01-02-2013, 11:33 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
There's absolutely no way on this blessed blue Earth that Tavares costs more than Karlsson.
I'd take Tavares over Karlsson any day.

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01-02-2013, 11:44 AM
  #138
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I'd take Tavares over Karlsson any day.
Cool. We wouldn't.

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01-02-2013, 12:01 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'd take Tavares over Karlsson any day.
I imagine the split to be close to 50/50, but I'd take the prolific D-man scorer over the prolific C any day of the week.

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01-02-2013, 02:00 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
Cool. We wouldn't.
Can we simply say, that neither team's fan would make the switch ?

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:42 AM
  #141
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Some of you guys puts way too much value into points. Yes Karlsson is a beast offensively, he had a great season but I would rather have a much complete defenseman like Shea Weber for example than Karlsson. Like another poster said, Mike Green had two seasons of 70 points and I would never trade J. Tavares for Green.

J. Tavares is a first line center, probably top 5 in the league at center position. He's really young too like Karlsson. Of course Karlsson is amazing, but if you ask me between the two's. I take Tavares any day of the week. It doesn't mean Karlsson isn't elite too but I just think he brings less to the table for a team than John Tavares.

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01-03-2013, 03:11 AM
  #142
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How on earth can an (immensely) gifted offensive Dmen be worth more than a Center already carrying his (sometimes abyssmal) team on his back?

No pun intented, but it needs more than a few shiny point totals to win a playoff series, not to mention a cup. A team with a Tavares at center has certainly the bigger chance of winning one than a team with Karlsson as #1 D. Today's NHL isnt Bobby Orr's NHL anymore.

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01-03-2013, 03:46 AM
  #143
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Ottawa don't even need more C's... so y'know, awful suggestion...

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Old
01-03-2013, 03:55 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
There's absolutely no way on this blessed blue Earth that Tavares costs more than Karlsson.
Um.. how do you figure that? Karlsson is a defenseman while Tavares is a first line center. Not to mention Tavares has a very friendly contract. He will be a top 5 center in the NHL in a couple of years. Already is top 10.

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01-03-2013, 04:18 AM
  #145
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Um.. how do you figure that? Karlsson is a defenseman while Tavares is a first line center. Not to mention Tavares has a very friendly contract. He will be a top 5 center in the NHL in a couple of years. Already is top 10.
Norris in 3rd season, as 21 year old. He IS the top offensive D man in the game. He IS a top pairing D man. Premier PP QB. Plays 25+ minutes per game. Beat out Chara and Weber for the Norris.

Tavares has a ways to go to get to the top. Karlsson is at the top.

While Tavares is no doubt a top level player in the game, Karlsson is one of a kind. No one has produced like that since Leetch, Coffey, etc (some of the greatests).

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01-03-2013, 04:24 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Punkeater View Post
Some of you guys puts way too much value into points. Yes Karlsson is a beast offensively, he had a great season but I would rather have a much complete defenseman like Shea Weber for example than Karlsson. Like another poster said, Mike Green had two seasons of 70 points and I would never trade J. Tavares for Green.

J. Tavares is a first line center, probably top 5 in the league at center position. He's really young too like Karlsson. Of course Karlsson is amazing, but if you ask me between the two's. I take Tavares any day of the week. It doesn't mean Karlsson isn't elite too but I just think he brings less to the table for a team than John Tavares.
Karlsson is nothing like green. Karlsson plays a speedy, positional, pass first, shoot for a rebound, poke check everything game. Green is older and would be putting up similar numbers if weren't for injuries.

Karlsson brings more to the table than Tavares. Karlsson had to defend teams #1 lines all while putting up near ppg.

All Tavares does is bring his offense and points really aren't all that great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holyprime View Post
How on earth can an (immensely) gifted offensive Dmen be worth more than a Center already carrying his (sometimes abyssmal) team on his back?

No pun intented, but it needs more than a few shiny point totals to win a playoff series, not to mention a cup. A team with a Tavares at center has certainly the bigger chance of winning one than a team with Karlsson as #1 D. Today's NHL isnt Bobby Orr's NHL anymore.
So far a team with Karlsson has gotten closer. Twice. You talk as if Karlsson doesn't play defense whatsoever.

Good job on Tavares for carrying his team no where, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by empire7 View Post
Um.. how do you figure that? Karlsson is a defenseman while Tavares is a first line center. Not to mention Tavares has a very friendly contract. He will be a top 5 center in the NHL in a couple of years. Already is top 10.
I love how you say Karlsson is only a defenseman while Tavares is a #1 center. If Tavares is a #1 center than Karlsson is a #1 dman.

Everyone knows #1 center is just as valuable as a #1 dman. Its preference.

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01-03-2013, 04:55 AM
  #147
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Norris in 3rd season, as 21 year old. He IS the top offensive D man in the game. He IS a top pairing D man. Premier PP QB. Plays 25+ minutes per game. Beat out Chara and Weber for the Norris.

Tavares has a ways to go to get to the top. Karlsson is at the top.

While Tavares is no doubt a top level player in the game, Karlsson is one of a kind. No one has produced like that since Leetch, Coffey, etc (some of the greatests).
While true, when was the last time that a 20 year old took two ninth round picks as his 1st line wingers and managed to squeeze several 30 goal seasons out of one and two 50 point+ (one of them 67 points) out of the other?

Look......I understand how Sens fans feel Karlsson's value is higher than Tavares'.....but I still make my comparison like this - the Sens have the closest thing to Paul Coffey in the game today as an awesome weapon on their blueline, while the Isles have a center who elevates the game of his teammates not unlike Steve Yzerman.....who is the same age as, and who also is trending to improve moving forward like Erik Karlsson.

Tavares is that player who will constantly be nitpicked as 'non-elite' because what he does isn't as obvious on the score sheet as Stamkos, his career hasn't mirrored Crosby, and maybe just a little tiny bit because people seem ready to assume that nothing that has changed on Long Island between 2007 and today.

I'd still build around a Yzerman-like center rather than a likely-elite offensive defenseman, although the difference is not that far off - I am NOT knocking Karlsson, and I'd love to have a player like that on my team, but we may as well end this thread right now, because one thing is true:

The only proposal that would get either team to trade either player involves the other team's top player going back the other way, which won't happen. As much as I could understand Sens fans not wanting to trade Karlsson to get Tavares, saying that Karlsson is worth more is insane. They are two young players on different positions headed to their prime, and the value and legitimacy they give to their franchises isn't something to be given up for a package of 4 1st round picks with little NHL experience from any team.

Don't be surprised to receive ire from NYI fans when making a trade proposal for Tavares and not adding Karlsson. Believe us, that's what it would take - and I fully understand that those names could be swapped in the above sentence and still be true. As for the jokes about the Isles always missing the playoffs, they're about 2 years away from all the damage Milbury did to be wiped out; they finally have a top-echelon prospect pool (not unlike Ottawa) and the rubber meets the road once certain prospects (Strome, Niederreiter, Hamonic, Reinhart, Pelech, Cizikas, etc......and there are a LOT more names than that) force their way onto the NHL roster. The plan wasn't to continue pawning prospects off for immediate help that would only leave, landing the Islanders again trying to walk out of a steep sand dune, it's seemingly aimed to let those players develop, use placeholders and scraps from the FA market that generally ignores Long Island, go through the growing pains and reach the 'I told you so' stage at about the time the team makes it to Brooklyn, when those prospects are ready for the NHL.

Long story short, no deal. Debatably-elite for debatably-elite.

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Old
01-03-2013, 05:27 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
So far a team with Karlsson has gotten closer. Twice. You talk as if Karlsson doesn't play defense whatsoever.

Good job on Tavares for carrying his team no where, though.
I never said he's not awesome, i just stated that if you want to win a cup, a center of Tavares' calibre is worth more than a Dmen of Karlsson's calibre.

Not comparing the two teams, just the players and their projected roles.

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01-03-2013, 05:36 AM
  #149
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Um.. how do you figure that? Karlsson is a defenseman while Tavares is a first line center. Not to mention Tavares has a very friendly contract. He will be a top 5 center in the NHL in a couple of years. Already is top 10.
The best defenceman in the league is worth more than a top 10 centre. Karlsson finished 8th in Hart Trophy voting while Tavares didn't receive a single vote for it.

Karlsson plays more minutes than Tavares and can be counted on to excel in any situation.

Tavares' contract isn't any more friendly than Karlsson's. It does have a cap hit of a million less per season but it is also a year shorter.

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01-03-2013, 05:40 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by holyprime View Post
I never said he's not awesome, i just stated that if you want to win a cup, a center of Tavares' calibre is worth more than a Dmen of Karlsson's calibre.

Not comparing the two teams, just the players and their projected roles.

A Norris Trophy winning defenceman is a lot more likely to win a Cup than a center who isn't close to being the best center in the league.

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