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Why can't Czech Republic, Finland, Slovakia produce any great skaters anymore?

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:27 AM
  #26
Matte99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I would say so, but that's just one guy. Most high-end prospects coming out of Czech Republic right now have the "skating is a weakness" tag applied to them. Nobody has been better than average, some are significantly worse. And it's not just speed, their lateral mobility is usually just as awful or even worse.

I think the prospects on the whole from Czech Republic and Finland are actually really good and there's some great gems in there, but I think it does hurt their junior teams (and in the future Olympics/WHC teams) if there's very few good skaters and the team as a whole is slower than the opposition.
Think the whole topic came from watching the Czech - USA game, and i remember thinking that the Czech team didn't look Czech at all. Great size and no mobility, its so not European and so not Czech... (from my swedish perspective Czech hockey is explosive based on opponent turnovers with speedy sniping forwards and tight defense)

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01-03-2013, 01:33 AM
  #27
robdicks
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I think it is kind of pointless to just rank players by speed or skating ability. Although that is a vital part of the game, there are players that can get by without being excellent skaters. Based on my comparison below, it seems that some countries are having troubles developing top end talent. Slovakia seems fine considering their standing as a hockey country, but Finland doesn't have one player in the top 30. The Czech only have one and he is 36 years old. USA isn't doing as well as you would think, but their top scorers will be around for at least 10 more years barring injury. Sweden is doing great, Canada is obviously Canada. Russia only has 2 players in the top 30, but those two are also in the top 5. They do lack depth and I believe their best-on-best national team reflects that.

Here is just the top 30 scorers last year by country to compare:

Canada (17):

Stamkos
Giroux
Spezza
Neal
Tavares
Whitney
Thornton
Eberle
St. Louis
Pominville
Staal
Moulson
Sharp
Hartnell
Iginla
Lupul
Seguin

USA (2):

Kessel
Parise

Russia (2):

Malkin
Kovalchuk

Sweden (5):

H Sedin
Karlsson
Eriksson
Zetterberg
D Sedin

Finland (0):

Slovakia (2):

Hossa
Gaborik

Czech (1):

Elias

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01-03-2013, 01:49 AM
  #28
Matte99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeskog Rocks View Post
It cant be! Swedens population is 10million, Its not even the main sport in Sweden so it has to be Russia or chechs.
It can be and it is... Also, we are only 9 million people...
KHL and NHL's draining of players is doing serious damage to the quality of SEL.

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01-03-2013, 02:06 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Even being from Canada, I am sometimes shocked at how much older US teens look. I'm talking outside of hockey. You also have some like Kane or Gaudreau that look thirteen too though.
Go to dinner in the US. Fill up on meals 2x the size we'd eat here plus hormone filled milk. You'll be HUGE!

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01-03-2013, 02:39 AM
  #30
alko
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what is the purpose of this topic?

A) it is the overall level of junior hockey?
B) OR it is about skating ability?

when A
That was discussed here many times. I'm bored write it again and again.

when B
Damm global warming

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01-03-2013, 02:52 AM
  #31
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Finland had a good team this year, topped by Barkov who will be a Top-5 pick in this year's draft.

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01-03-2013, 03:00 AM
  #32
SabresBillsBuffalo
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Armia, Granlund, Frk, Hertel, Fadska?

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01-03-2013, 03:20 AM
  #33
slovakiasnextone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alko View Post
what is the purpose of this topic?

A) it is the overall level of junior hockey?
B) OR it is about skating ability?

when A
That was discussed here many times. I'm bored write it again and again.

when B
Damm global warming
And if it is just about B, why the hell is Finland included in this topic?

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01-03-2013, 03:46 AM
  #34
Tomas W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matte99 View Post
It can be and it is... Also, we are only 9 million people...
KHL and NHL's draining of players is doing serious damage to the quality of SEL.
9,5 million....

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01-03-2013, 03:52 AM
  #35
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Id say we are a pretty good hockey country in the past, now and in the future for a 5,5 million populated country

We have guys like Barkov, Granlund(s), Teräväinen, Armia, Pokka, Määttä, Ristolainen, Vatanen etc coming in near future

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01-03-2013, 04:20 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
The RFA's change some of the numbers as do guys in the minors, but currently eliteprospects shows Sweden as the third largest with a 5 player lead over the Czechs.
Yup Eliteprospects shows 39 SWEs vs 34 Czechs. Due to the lockout Sweden has 41(!) players in the AHL(many of whom will be NHL players when things are back to normal)and Czechs have 9. Last year, the difference was 68 to 43 in the NHL.

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01-03-2013, 04:41 AM
  #37
Jussi
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Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
With the rise of the KHL in Slovakia, Ukraine, Latvia and Kazakhstan im sure better prospects will come along.
It hasn't shown so far, just ask the Latvian posters.

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01-03-2013, 04:48 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
It hasn't shown so far, just ask the Latvian posters.
Well what do you want to ask? KHL has existed for what 5 years? and MHL 3 years ofcourse theres no improvemnts YET,it takes time.

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01-03-2013, 05:58 AM
  #39
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Slovakia have produced players like Milan Bartovic, who is one of the fastest skaters I've ever seen, but he can't do much else apart from go fast

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01-03-2013, 06:05 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeskog Rocks View Post
It cant be! Swedens population is 10million, Its not even the main sport in Sweden so it has to be Russia or chechs.
The population of the Czech Rep is pretty much on par with Sweden, FYI. Take geography 101 before making statements like this.

And as for Russians, there's this little league called KHL they seem to be favoring these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Well what do you want to ask? KHL has existed for what 5 years? and MHL 3 years ofcourse theres no improvemnts YET,it takes time.
Latvia doesn't need KHL's help. What it needs is more rinks. It's a small miracle they're even on the level they are for a country that only has 15ish venues.

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01-03-2013, 06:24 AM
  #41
slovakiasnextone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
With the rise of the KHL in Slovakia, Ukraine, Latvia and Kazakhstan im sure better prospects will come along.
Maybe something is getting lost in translation here, but I imagine that by the point you reach the KHL you should already be both a) quite capable skater (not that it always is the case) and b) at least somewhat of a developed players.

Anyway this thread combines three countries that have in most aspects different conditions. Both Finland and Slovakia suffer from small population (both just around 5 million), which in Finland´s case means that despite the qualities of the development system their most probably not gonna develop elite level talent as regularly as the top 4 countries, i.e. depth issues that are even more visible at the junior level than at men´s. In Slovakia you can add the small number of players/rinks and economic situation in the country. Czechs have double the amount of population, but the participation numbers have been falling and the economic situation might be better than Slovakia´s, but still not as good as Nordic/NA countries.

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01-03-2013, 08:14 AM
  #42
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This is a valid point. Finnish junior players are poor skaters. You could tell it only by watching this tournament.

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01-03-2013, 08:41 AM
  #43
Jussi
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
This is a valid point. Finnish junior players are poor skaters. You could tell it only by watching this tournament.
The ones that can skate are usually midgets. It's very well known our junior coaches can't teach the bigger guys to skate.

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01-03-2013, 10:04 AM
  #44
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Has Finland produced great skaters(forwards) with more then just speed after Selänne, we have always had great skating defencemen(Ruotsalainen,Nummelin,Vatanen).

To compare Selänne to the finnish juniors is bit unfair after all one of the best skaters in the world of hockey.

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01-03-2013, 10:13 AM
  #45
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I suspect poor economy in the past 5 years has something to do with it. Hockey is an expensive sports as it is. Manage local hockey teams are even tougher slovaks not having infrastructure like Finland or Sweden.

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01-03-2013, 10:40 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
Switzerland won 1 out of 5 games this WJC and even that one was against Latvia
But every game they won could have easily been a win with a better bounce. Considering, that on paper they were suppose to be a weak team the fact that they played every team in the tournament evenly, and blew out Latvia, I believe indicates that how they are developing their youth system is working. Focusing on skating might be part of this, I don't know enough about their system to say.

Consistently over the last four years or so, I've always been impressed with the team game the swiss play. They rarely have the talent, but they always seem to play teams close.

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01-03-2013, 10:50 AM
  #47
Gaps
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The ones that can skate are usually midgets. It's very well known our junior coaches can't teach the bigger guys to skate.
Exactly. I think it's been this way for a long time. IIRC, even Mikko Koivu needed a private skating instructor for several years although he was already coached by others, including his own father. He's still not the most explosive skater, but for a big guy his skating's fine these days and he's able to use his long stride and muscle strength to his advantage.

We also seem to have some talented midgets who aren't great skaters, like MiG. He's improved lately, but for a small player his skating used to be below average. So I would say that we need some more good skating instructors, especially for the bigger players who are always a little more challenging.

Out of the younger guys, Vatanen is definitely a good skater, and Teräväinen isn't too bad either. Ristolainen's skating is okay for his size, and Armia's taken some steps into the right direction as well, although the skating will probably need more work once he gains a bit more muscle mass. Barkov's still in the growing stage, so I expect it to take some time until he can truly regain full control of his body. He'll never be explosive, but with the right instructor he should be fine. Hopefully the NHL organization that drafts him has a decent instructor.

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01-03-2013, 10:58 AM
  #48
Jeez
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Originally Posted by Jarome Iginla View Post
Isn't Vrana supposedly a good skater?
I think so. Also Hyka looks promising.

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01-03-2013, 03:14 PM
  #49
KennyPowers9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeskog Rocks View Post
It cant be! Swedens population is 10million, Its not even the main sport in Sweden so it has to be Russia or chechs.
population have nothing to do with this, maybe numbers of players..

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01-03-2013, 03:18 PM
  #50
Tiranis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
Armia, Granlund, Frk, Hertel, Fadska?
Which one of those is a good skater? They're all anywhere from average to below average. Or did you not read the first post in this thread?

It's disappointing to see how many people just straight up haven't read the first post. It mentions speed, mobility, etc. several times. It's clearly not a thread about the quality of players but about their skating.

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