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2013 WJC Thread - USA! USA! USA!

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Old
01-01-2013, 08:59 AM
  #76
UnrealMachine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Scott Harrington is the real-deal. He could not only play in our top-6 next season, but he could make a significant positive impact on our team both 5-on-5, on the PK (could play 1st unit), and even 2nd unit PP duties.

Harrington's offensive potential is very underrated and isn't really being utilzed anywhere other than London, where he plays 2nd unip PP, simply because he is WAY better than everyone else defensively; and thus, he is always used in a shutdown role, and therefore always thinks defense-first, because he'll do whatever necessary to help the team win.

If Harrington does spend anytime in WBS next season (which should only happen if both Despres and Dumoulin have proven too good for that league), then I sincerely hope he will be getting FIRST unit PP time in WBS. Getting him to further develop his and focus on his offesive game is the ONLY good justification for him playing in WBS next season; and the only way the Pens could screw his development up is by short-changing him in this regard and pigeon-holing him as a defensive-only Dman for his career. He can be so much more than that (i.e. Girardi without as much size & physical play).
It is still unclear to me why you are so high on Harrington's offensive potential? He has actually regressed this season in terms of offense. Yes, he is used in a shutdown role, but he is in no way disallowed from making transitional passes, taking shots, etc. He had 26 points in 44 games last season and is on pace to have 12 points in his first 44 games this season. You can't chalk that all up to him being held back by coaching tactics. The onus is on him to develop his game both defensively and offensively.

I'm perfectly fine with him being a shutdown defender. It's EXACTLY what this team needs. I just don't see how he increases his offensive output if he already cannot do so at the junior level. It gets much harder at every level of hockey. Sure, he may produce some points if he is ever on a line with Letang, Crosby, etc. Anyone would. I don't see him scoring many NHL goals though. Are there any players in particular that had shutdown roles in junior, scored rather few goals/points there, but developed into a (true) 2-way D in the NHL?

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01-01-2013, 09:56 AM
  #77
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Unsure about Harrington's ceiling, but excited about his floor.

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01-01-2013, 12:04 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Unsure about Harrington's ceiling, but excited about his floor.
Yeah, I'm still not sure if he can be a top 4 guy, and I'm also assuming he'll need a period of time in the AHL to adjust to the speed of the pro game and to add more strength as any 19 year old needs to. He's pretty average, even by major junior standards, in a lot of facets like size, mobility, strength, shot, skill, etc. Still a good and very unique prospect, but I'm staying cautiously optimistic.

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01-01-2013, 12:10 PM
  #79
jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Unsure about Harrington's ceiling, but excited about his floor.
Great quote. Indeed you are correct, sir.


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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
It is still unclear to me why you are so high on Harrington's offensive potential? He has actually regressed this season in terms of offense. Yes, he is used in a shutdown role, but he is in no way disallowed from making transitional passes, taking shots, etc. He had 26 points in 44 games last season and is on pace to have 12 points in his first 44 games this season. You can't chalk that all up to him being held back by coaching tactics. The onus is on him to develop his game both defensively and offensively.

I'm perfectly fine with him being a shutdown defender. It's EXACTLY what this team needs. I just don't see how he increases his offensive output if he already cannot do so at the junior level. It gets much harder at every level of hockey. Sure, he may produce some points if he is ever on a line with Letang, Crosby, etc. Anyone would. I don't see him scoring many NHL goals though. Are there any players in particular that had shutdown roles in junior, scored rather few goals/points there, but developed into a (true) 2-way D in the NHL?

Stats are just stats, so I'm going to comment on what I see; and London did lose some of their top offensive players from last year, so I'm not sure if that's a factor or not.


Every player that Harrington has played with (whether it was Tinordi last year, or Hamilton in this tournament, etc.), the other guy tends to be the type of guy who likes to jump up into the play to create offense. Anytime a Dman does that, it is up to his partner (and sometimes the forwards) to notice it and stays back. If there is a fault in Harry's game, it's sometimes that he's too safe, but it's never a bad thing to do when you break up as many 1-on-1s, 2-on-1s or prevent goals against as much as he does.


Having said that: when Harrington does jump into the play, it's almost always the right decision, and his decision making of when to pinch and when not to is excellent. His shot selection is also excellent. He knows when to just put a wrister or half-slapper on net; he knows when to fake a slapper and make the slap pass (i.e. Drouin's goal the other night); and when he takes the big slapper, it's hard, low and virtually always on net. And if I'm not mistaken, he has registered as having a particularly hard/fast slap shot.


He also just makes great reads in general. You'll often see him (like last WJC game) tapping his stick on the ice for a pass, though often it never gets to him. I know that when he gets to the NHL level and he's playing with smarter players and they use the point-men more often, he will have lots of opportunity with the puck on his stick.


And overall, he tends to play more of a two-way game in London than merely specialty defensive role, and is used on the 2nd PP unit, where he looks good because of his hockey sense, and for all the reasons I mentioned above. So while I'm not saying he is a legit #1 PP QB, I know that he's got good offensive tools that I hope get developed more, and are often not seen because either he himself or his coach(es) often ask him to be a shut-down guy. I think he'll be able to produce good numbers and play on the 2nd unit PP when he's up with the big club, accustomed to the NHL pace, and playing with better/smarter players in general. (and he won't be the only guy who's really good defensively, because Dmen on good teams don't make it to the NHL if they're not pretty solid defensively). So hopefully we'll see him be an all-around player at the AHL or NHL level, rather than the "specialty" player he is currently at the junior/international level.

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01-01-2013, 12:33 PM
  #80
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How did Maatta look? I didn't get to see any of the Finland games, but his stat line looks very disappointing. Zero points and a -2 in 3 games played.

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01-01-2013, 12:34 PM
  #81
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You're over-analyzing things. Regardless of what you think of Harrington's hockey sense or ability to read plays, the fact is he's not putting up points in juniors as a 19 year old on a fairly strong team, and he never has. He's not going to suddenly start putting up points in the pros just because he's playing with more talented players. It doesn't work that way, ever.

I know that stats aren't everything.. but when it comes to judging a player's offensive abilities, stats are pretty close to everything.

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01-01-2013, 02:23 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
You're over-analyzing things. Regardless of what you think of Harrington's hockey sense or ability to read plays, the fact is he's not putting up points in juniors as a 19 year old on a fairly strong team, and he never has. He's not going to suddenly start putting up points in the pros just because he's playing with more talented players. It doesn't work that way, ever.

I know that stats aren't everything.. but when it comes to judging a player's offensive abilities, stats are pretty close to everything.

Yes, but I also get to watch most of London's games and all of the WJCs games, and I specifically scout our players or guys of interest. And I am telling you, from my own viewing, that Harrington is SPECIFICALLY NOT used in offensive situations, aside from some 2nd unit PP time (because London uses 4 forwards on the PP); and is usually paired up with guys who are more offensive, causing Harrington to be the defensive conscience on the ice.


I'm not saying he's going to be a 50-point guy at the NHL level. What I am saying is that I think he's very capable of scoring 5-8 goals and 25-30 points at the NHL level, is VERY good when he chooses to jump into the rush (which isn't often enough, perhaps his only weakness or a function of playing with more offensive partners), and he is a guy who is a legitimate option for a 2nd unit PP duty.

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01-02-2013, 08:32 AM
  #83
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Wasn't Harrington a big-time offensive D prospect with holes in his own end coming into the OHL? I seem to recall reading that. He has transformed himself into a quality shutdown D prospect. I think he'll continue to hone his shutdown ability and not try to add more offense into the equation. It'll be difficult enough just to crack the NHL and this blueline in particular, imo.

As long as he continues to pattern his game in the Scuderi mold, I think he'll pan out as a top-four rearguard.

There are a few guys from this WJC that I'd love to target if I'm the Pens. It starts with Marko Dano, the Slovakian winger. This guy reminded me SO MUCH of Peter Bondra when I watched him play. Great shot. Lefty, but seems natural on the right side. I don't know how high he'll go in the draft, but I'd love a shot at him.

I'm also a fan of Anton Slepyshev, who's been passed over twice already in the draft. Plays well in a complementary role with Grigorenko and Kucherov on the Russian team. Slepyshev has a bit of Valeri Kamensky dangle in him. I'd take a flyer on him for sure. American Ryan Hartman is another guy who has impressed me. Great wheels there. Probably a third liner at the NHL level, but I like his game a lot. Simple, yet effective.

And as an aside, a goalie I'd like to see us draft (or maybe just sign as a free agent) is Swiss Benjamin Conz, who isn't playing in this year's WJC but looked good in the Spengler Cup. I like him a lot.

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01-02-2013, 10:02 AM
  #84
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You know who's impressed me is Marko Dano SVK team I hope we try and snag him in the 3rd or 4th round. I also hope in late rounds take a shot at Anton Slepyshev Rus I know he didnt show up at draft colombine last year. But he has great skills and can see him as a similar pick as we did with Zoblin last year in the 7th round can't hurt. Any guys your impressed with that are draft eligible and could be within our reach? Thanks guys!!!

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01-02-2013, 10:37 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Wasn't Harrington a big-time offensive D prospect with holes in his own end coming into the OHL? I seem to recall reading that. He has transformed himself into a quality shutdown D prospect. I think he'll continue to hone his shutdown ability and not try to add more offense into the equation. It'll be difficult enough just to crack the NHL and this blueline in particular, imo.

As long as he continues to pattern his game in the Scuderi mold, I think he'll pan out as a top-four rearguard.

There are a few guys from this WJC that I'd love to target if I'm the Pens. It starts with Marko Dano, the Slovakian winger. This guy reminded me SO MUCH of Peter Bondra when I watched him play. Great shot. Lefty, but seems natural on the right side. I don't know how high he'll go in the draft, but I'd love a shot at him.

I'm also a fan of Anton Slepyshev, who's been passed over twice already in the draft. Plays well in a complementary role with Grigorenko and Kucherov on the Russian team. Slepyshev has a bit of Valeri Kamensky dangle in him. I'd take a flyer on him for sure. American Ryan Hartman is another guy who has impressed me. Great wheels there. Probably a third liner at the NHL level, but I like his game a lot. Simple, yet effective.

And as an aside, a goalie I'd like to see us draft (or maybe just sign as a free agent) is Swiss Benjamin Conz, who isn't playing in this year's WJC but looked good in the Spengler Cup. I like him a lot.
Thats just what I was thinking. Its those long arms with good hands on the end. Good size on him too.

Hartman is a kid to keep an eye on. He seems like a grinder but he has good offensive sense and hands. Maybe he can be a Hartnell type.

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01-02-2013, 11:54 AM
  #86
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A few others we should take a look on draft day. Forwards Artturi Lehkonen Fin, Kerby Rychel Can, Valentin Zykov Rus, Morgan Klimchuck Can, I know he's short but Nicolas Pétan Can, Cole Cassels USA, Tyler Motte USA. Goalies Spencer Martin, Tristen Jarry, Jordan Dekort.

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01-02-2013, 04:01 PM
  #87
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Harrington reminds me a lot of a (perhaps more poised) Zbynek Michalek. I think we keep him and he is our number 4/5 and PKer for years.

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01-02-2013, 04:24 PM
  #88
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Anyone else think the Russian coach looks like Badger Bob?

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01-02-2013, 04:53 PM
  #89
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01-02-2013, 07:06 PM
  #90
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01-02-2013, 10:42 PM
  #91
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Every game that Trouba plays in the WJC, I get more sad that we took Pouliot over him.

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01-02-2013, 11:34 PM
  #92
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Yeah well, if the World Juniors meant as much as people like to think, Ryan Parent would have four Norris trophies by now. And at the same time Kris Letang never did anything too spectacular at the tournament either, not bad or anything, but nothing amazing. Nigel Dawes lit up the tournament one year while Corey Perry wasn't even on the team.


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01-03-2013, 12:03 AM
  #93
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Ya for real. There's no denying that Trouba is having a helluva tournament, but that's not grounds to base judgment on the DePo pick.

I think I'll start to be concerned if Pouliot starts to decline statistically, and doesn't make the cut for next years WJC.

I still believe he wasn't given an objective look during camp...because of...well...Spott. I'm not saying he should have made it, but there were several d-men that played better than Murphy who brought the same thing or brought more to the table.

Like I've said before, one of Pouliot's greatest strengths seems to be his mental game. Nothing seems to affect this kid. Everything is against him and yet can we really find anything wrong with his development? No, not really. All that people can do is point watch and compare other players--forwards in a weaker league for that matter--but don't really find any knocks against Pouliot.

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01-03-2013, 03:47 AM
  #94
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Yeah well, if the World Juniors meant as much as people like to think, Ryan Parent would have four Norris trophies by now. And at the same time Kris Letang never did anything too spectacular at the tournament either, not bad or anything, but nothing amazing. Nigel Dawes lit up the tournament one year while Corey Perry wasn't even on the team.
I agree with you that the WJCs don't mean everything, but Parent was derailed by multiple injuries (shoulder, groin, back) and Letang was a captain and tournament all-star.

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01-03-2013, 03:48 AM
  #95
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Absolute dominance by team USA after the first 20.
Canada looking discombobulated. Buffalo '12 second round pick D-man Jake McCabe (captain) with both goals with good screened shots from the high slot. Could have been worse.

Harrington far from Canada's worst D-man in this one, perhaps the more solid looking, but that isn't saying much.

Mens against boyz so far. Surprising.

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01-03-2013, 03:51 AM
  #96
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Absolute dominance by team USA after the first 20.
Canada looking discombobulated. Buffalo '12 second round pick D-man Jake McCabe (captain) with both goals with good screened shots from the high slot. Could have been worse.

Harrington far from Canada's worst D-man in this one, perhaps the more solid looking, but that isn't saying much.

Mens against boyz so far. Surprising.
The passing from Canada is sloppy as hell. Just about every pass is either a foot high or a foot behind, and when the passes do hit their mark, the receiver can't get a handle on it.

We'll see if they get their bearings here. I hope it's just a little rust from the time off.

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01-03-2013, 04:41 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Absolute dominance by team USA after the first 20.
Canada looking discombobulated. Buffalo '12 second round pick D-man Jake McCabe (captain) with both goals with good screened shots from the high slot. Could have been worse.

Harrington far from Canada's worst D-man in this one, perhaps the more solid looking, but that isn't saying much.

Mens against boyz so far. Surprising.
That Canada D is soft. The US getting pucks deep and keeping them there is a huge part of this game. The US is eating up the transition game too.

Very happy to see Jonny Gaudreau playing like a champ. That kids been called to small, slow, out of shape... and he just dominates every level of hockey he's played.

I like Trouba as much as the next guy but I would want the Pens to take DePo over him 10 x's out of 10. Higher upside and once Pouliot gets stronger I think we'll see a much more well rounded game from him. People calling him soft are just way out in the woods. He competes well and he's already pretty good defensively. He just needs to get stronger... so did Letang.

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01-03-2013, 04:44 AM
  #98
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Team USA is just handling them...hell, Canada even has a ****ing nhl player on their team.

It's fun to see USA doing so well.

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01-03-2013, 05:23 AM
  #99
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Can't wait to hear Cherry's excuse to why Canada blew this one.

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01-03-2013, 05:26 AM
  #100
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Harrington was player of the game for Canada.

Go USA!

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