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MLS vs. NHL Going Forward?

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Old
01-03-2013, 11:01 AM
  #401
No Fun Shogun
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Assuming the mod took out a critical part of your post, but going off on what's left.... sure, hockey fans need a backbone and thicker skin, but hockey naysayers and soccer proponents also need a dose of reality if they honestly think that the MLS is anywhere near to coming close to being on the NHL's level.

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01-03-2013, 11:44 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Assuming the mod took out a critical part of your post, but going off on what's left.... sure, hockey fans need a backbone and thicker skin, but hockey naysayers and soccer proponents also need a dose of reality if they honestly think that the MLS is anywhere near to coming close to being on the NHL's level.
I don't. but we both agree hockey needs to get it together. Kil is just keeping me out of trouble with the admins

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:24 AM
  #403
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Feels to me like MLS has leveled off, although I am in Canada. Up here it was a big deal when Toronto FC started, but it really is a regional thing. They try to make it national, but it is nothing like the NHL or even CFL up here. Not many people in Calgary, Saskatoon or Winnipeg are going to care about Vancouver vs Chivas USA on a Thursday night. Of course the Whitecaps are big in the Lower Mainland. Their growth is coming from expansion. That is good news for them because in the past they'd expand and teams would sink in a few years. The fact that they have stadiums built for them and their sport will give stability that has never existed for soccer in North America. The MLS still has a good number of their players living not far above the poverty line to play pro soccer. As long as that is the case, the product won't compete with the "Big 4," NASCAR and even NCAA. The NHL revenue has grown at a decent rate with a static number of franchises, although much of that growth is coming from about 1/3 of the teams.
1. MLS hasn't leveled off, they were in the green in just about every stat lsat season.
2. Either you are blissfully unaware of the definition of poverty, or you are ignorant of MLS salaries. Of the 28 players on Philadelphia's roster last season, for example, seven players who mostly never dressed made 44-47k. Eleven players made over 100k. Obviously NHL salaries dwarf these numbers, which is why there is no need to exaggerate them.

The reason soccer is destined to rise in the USA is because there are already millions of people who watch soccer. It's just that they don't watch MLS. That is slowly changing, and will continue to change. There will be a tipping point. MLS will eventually surpass the NHL.

Though, as has already been mentioned, it shouldn't really affect hockey.

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03-01-2013, 03:07 AM
  #404
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If MLS ever surpasses hockey I will be long dead by that time. But if that does happen what Soccer needs to do to get a larger fanbase is implement goal-line technology and goal reviews. North Americans are sticklers for getting the right calls. When Team USA got some goals called off in the last world cup it pissed a lot of people off and probably turned a lot of people off. I could be wrong but I hear fifa is going to do that in an upcoming world cup. With that it will just be a matter of trying to convince more people that soccer is "exciting". Or more Americans I should say.

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03-01-2013, 07:11 AM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oobz View Post
If MLS ever surpasses hockey I will be long dead by that time. But if that does happen what Soccer needs to do to get a larger fanbase is implement goal-line technology and goal reviews. North Americans are sticklers for getting the right calls. When Team USA got some goals called off in the last world cup it pissed a lot of people off and probably turned a lot of people off. I could be wrong but I hear fifa is going to do that in an upcoming world cup. With that it will just be a matter of trying to convince more people that soccer is "exciting". Or more Americans I should say.
It might end up being sooner if/when the league decides to spend more money on better players. They have to essentially drain Europe of it's talent in order to get a better product on the field and the only way that's going to happen is if/when they decide to crack open the check book and start rivaling Europe's top leagues in salary.


As for the goal line stuff here's the latest news from today:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/soccer-...1665--sow.html

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03-01-2013, 09:25 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
It might end up being sooner if/when the league decides to spend more money on better players. They have to essentially drain Europe of it's talent in order to get a better product on the field and the only way that's going to happen is if/when they decide to crack open the check book and start rivaling Europe's top leagues in salary.[/url]
That's not necessarily true. While MLS will continue to get older European players at the tail end of their careers, the real uptick in quality is probably more likely to come from south of the border. MLS has already begun to attract decent young talent from Central and South America. As salaries increase, I think you'll start to see more prominent players from those countries head to MLS.

After that movement gets underway, then I think European players would be more inclined to give the league a shot.

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03-01-2013, 09:37 AM
  #407
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MLS vs NHL?

Mmmm, they are not playing at the same time of the year, for the most part.

I'd say many hockey fans do have good interest in MLS when NHL season's is over. Not sure of the contrary (soccer fans watching NHL hockey games).

The number of die hard soccer fans in USA and Canada is slowly increasing. In the past, soccer was widely recognized as the "immigrants" sports. Couple years ago, I'd say soccer fans had no interest in NHL and hockey fans no interest in MLS.

That said, I myself root for MTL Impact, especially since they play MLS. Its a good show, of course, the is not Barclays premier league, but its much better then it have been couple years ago.

In the end MLS will not overpass the NHL.

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03-01-2013, 09:40 AM
  #408
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MLS will overtake the NHL on TV eventually. Too many kids playing soccer in the US. Add in the second division soccer teams such as the NASL, and the morons who run the NHL content to urinate on all aspects of the business every 6 or 8 years, and soccer's takeover is certain. It is just a matter of time.
Kids have been playing soccer in the US for years and it hasn't helped the professional game in this country.

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03-01-2013, 10:11 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Oobz View Post
But if that does happen what Soccer needs to do to get a larger fanbase is implement goal-line technology and goal reviews. North Americans are sticklers for getting the right calls.
I would say that goal reviews are very, very, very low on the list of factors in a league's popularity. People don't even care about those kinds of things until after they've become fans.

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03-01-2013, 10:11 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Kids have been playing soccer in the US for years and it hasn't helped the professional game in this country.

Alex, What is a an example of specious reasoning?

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03-01-2013, 10:56 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by GirouxGiroux View Post
That's not necessarily true. While MLS will continue to get older European players at the tail end of their careers, the real uptick in quality is probably more likely to come from south of the border. MLS has already begun to attract decent young talent from Central and South America. As salaries increase, I think you'll start to see more prominent players from those countries head to MLS.

After that movement gets underway, then I think European players would be more inclined to give the league a shot.
But that will take time. A lot of time.

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03-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
MLS vs NHL?

Mmmm, they are not playing at the same time of the year, for the most part.

I'd say many hockey fans do have good interest in MLS when NHL season's is over. Not sure of the contrary (soccer fans watching NHL hockey games).

The number of die hard soccer fans in USA and Canada is slowly increasing. In the past, soccer was widely recognized as the "immigrants" sports. Couple years ago, I'd say soccer fans had no interest in NHL and hockey fans no interest in MLS.

That said, I myself root for MTL Impact, especially since they play MLS. Its a good show, of course, the is not Barclays premier league, but its much better then it have been couple years ago.

In the end MLS will not overpass the NHL.
I'll agree with that in that I follow MLS in large part because it's something that bridges NHL seasons nicely. That and for the money I have a better time going to an MLS game than an NHL one.

Those new Impact 3rds are really sharp, btw.

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03-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by GirouxGiroux View Post
1. MLS hasn't leveled off, they were in the green in just about every stat lsat season.
2. Either you are blissfully unaware of the definition of poverty, or you are ignorant of MLS salaries. Of the 28 players on Philadelphia's roster last season, for example, seven players who mostly never dressed made 44-47k. Eleven players made over 100k. Obviously NHL salaries dwarf these numbers, which is why there is no need to exaggerate them.

The reason soccer is destined to rise in the USA is because there are already millions of people who watch soccer. It's just that they don't watch MLS. That is slowly changing, and will continue to change. There will be a tipping point. MLS will eventually surpass the NHL.

Though, as has already been mentioned, it shouldn't really affect hockey.
Gotta take in consideration that soccer is seeding deeper roots in the last part of the world where soccer is not in top 3 sports.

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03-01-2013, 02:07 PM
  #414
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Apologies if this was discussed earlier in the thread, but while NHL and MLS do not overlap much now, they will eventually. FIFA has been pressuring MLS for years (and allegedly Fox, which holds rights to the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, has joined in this pressure) to become consistent with the European leagues and move to a winter schedule. The conflicts with international tournaments in the summer are one of the major barriers to the MLS attracting better talent. MLS has acknowledged that ultimately they do need to move to a winter schedule, but cites the fact that many of their teams share stadiums with NFL teams as a barrier. They also point out that more and more teams are building their own soccer-specific stadiums (Seattle, New England and Vancouver are the only remaining teams that share stadiums with football), suggesting that at some point down the line it will be more viable to change the schedule.

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03-01-2013, 02:58 PM
  #415
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The mls, at least in new england is rarely if ever discussed. By a large gap they are in 5th for sports in boston with no real hopes of catching #4. The bruins have also been crushing the celtics in tv ratings this year just fyi. it appears, for now anyway it goes sox/pats bruins celts revs.

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03-01-2013, 03:02 PM
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotta Catch Em Staal View Post
Apologies if this was discussed earlier in the thread, but while NHL and MLS do not overlap much now, they will eventually. FIFA has been pressuring MLS for years (and allegedly Fox, which holds rights to the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, has joined in this pressure) to become consistent with the European leagues and move to a winter schedule. The conflicts with international tournaments in the summer are one of the major barriers to the MLS attracting better talent. MLS has acknowledged that ultimately they do need to move to a winter schedule, but cites the fact that many of their teams share stadiums with NFL teams as a barrier. They also point out that more and more teams are building their own soccer-specific stadiums (Seattle, New England and Vancouver are the only remaining teams that share stadiums with football), suggesting that at some point down the line it will be more viable to change the schedule.

With NBC holding the rights to both leagues, I wonder if they will have a role in coordinating them... possibly using one to boost the other.

TBH, I don't see soccer and hockey as mutually exclusive. Seems to me that they largely share the North American upper/upper-middle class demographic of young, urban, educated, high-dollar consumers. They can piggyback pretty easily compared to if the NHL tried to buddy up with, say, MMA or the NBA.

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03-01-2013, 03:45 PM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotta Catch Em Staal View Post
Apologies if this was discussed earlier in the thread, but while NHL and MLS do not overlap much now, they will eventually. FIFA has been pressuring MLS for years (and allegedly Fox, which holds rights to the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, has joined in this pressure) to become consistent with the European leagues and move to a winter schedule. The conflicts with international tournaments in the summer are one of the major barriers to the MLS attracting better talent. MLS has acknowledged that ultimately they do need to move to a winter schedule, but cites the fact that many of their teams share stadiums with NFL teams as a barrier. They also point out that more and more teams are building their own soccer-specific stadiums (Seattle, New England and Vancouver are the only remaining teams that share stadiums with football), suggesting that at some point down the line it will be more viable to change the schedule.
....

It cant happen. TOR and MTL just built two brand new soccer stadiums with no roof.

Unless they play with snowshoes? Trying to understand the logic. Not saying you're wrong, but I mean, how can this work here?

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03-01-2013, 04:06 PM
  #418
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No idea, but they manage it in Russia. This isn't something I came up with, this is actual talk from the league and FIFA.

Many leagues have a month long winter break, which would be an option. You would also probably see teams like Montreal play more on the road during the coldest months.

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03-01-2013, 04:12 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Gotta Catch Em Staal View Post
No idea, but they manage it in Russia. This isn't something I came up with, this is actual talk from the league and FIFA.

Many leagues have a month long winter break, which would be an option. You would also probably see teams like Montreal play more on the road during the coldest months.
They could play at the big O but I mean, well, not the same experience..

Anyways, we'll see.

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03-01-2013, 04:44 PM
  #420
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Winter schedule, eh? Cool, that will be the stake that is driven through the heart to this misbegotten league and it's obnoxious trolling fans...

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03-01-2013, 05:09 PM
  #421
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MLS is never adopting the FIFA calender

they pretend like they will eventually, but they're not idiots. Don Garber was an NFL exec, he remember the lessons of the USFL

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03-01-2013, 05:10 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by GirouxGiroux View Post
The reason soccer is destined to rise in the USA is because there are already millions of people who watch soccer. It's just that they don't watch MLS. That is slowly changing, and will continue to change. There will be a tipping point. MLS will eventually surpass the NHL.

Though, as has already been mentioned, it shouldn't really affect hockey.
Tipping Point: United States needs to have a World Cup run.

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03-01-2013, 05:25 PM
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotta Catch Em Staal View Post
No idea, but they manage it in Russia. This isn't something I came up with, this is actual talk from the league and FIFA.

Many leagues have a month long winter break, which would be an option. You would also probably see teams like Montreal play more on the road during the coldest months.
Sure, if MLS wanted to completely destroy its momentum, moving to an August-May calendar would be a very good move.

Here's what Denver looks like in October:



And, just for symmetry, here's what Denver looks like in March:



If you think they can play in that weather, let alone that people will watch them play in that weather, you're crazy. Games will routinely get moved around due to weather, making it an unpalatable TV product, and it will also put the sport in direct competition with the NBA, NHL, and NFL for spectators and TV viewers all season long. It would make building a TV audience virtually impossible, and Toronto and Montreal would basically have to become traveling teams just to play. It would be a disaster of epic proportions and set MLS back 10 years of growth.

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03-01-2013, 05:38 PM
  #424
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Soccer has been "coming" in America since the 1970's, frankly we're still waiting.

The pro sports landscape is too packed right now and there's too much engrained culture and history in the other sports for soccer really to exceed niche status. Not to mention certain aspects of the game run counter to our North American "sporting values." The lack of offense, the inexact clock, the rampant diving, etc. all seem to run counter to what we value most about our sports.

Now I don't think there's anything wrong with soccer per se. MLS has a decent business model and can do well in that slot. Theres an audience there for it as long as they dont ovextend. I just don't see it overtaking the Big 4 in this country any time soon. The same people telling me that now are the same people watching the Cosmos in the 70's.

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03-01-2013, 05:42 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotta Catch Em Staal View Post
Apologies if this was discussed earlier in the thread, but while NHL and MLS do not overlap much now, they will eventually. FIFA has been pressuring MLS for years (and allegedly Fox, which holds rights to the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, has joined in this pressure) to become consistent with the European leagues and move to a winter schedule. The conflicts with international tournaments in the summer are one of the major barriers to the MLS attracting better talent. MLS has acknowledged that ultimately they do need to move to a winter schedule, but cites the fact that many of their teams share stadiums with NFL teams as a barrier. They also point out that more and more teams are building their own soccer-specific stadiums (Seattle, New England and Vancouver are the only remaining teams that share stadiums with football), suggesting that at some point down the line it will be more viable to change the schedule.
Actually, FIFA is currently discussing if MLS is right, and if the leagues, even in Europe, should be taking a winter break instead of a summer break.

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