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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part X)

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Old
01-03-2013, 11:36 AM
  #301
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Very unlikely...not to mention the statistical likelihood of a marriage failing, regardless of distance.. i'll get back to you with some numbers shortly..


(i kid, i'm not looking up marriage stats)
Maybe not, but Garret will.

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01-03-2013, 11:38 AM
  #302
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Some food for thought:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6855989/

Lists all teams cap commitments in 2013-14. Latest from twitter on the CBA negotiations, it seems like the NHL wants a $60M cap for 2013-14 and will allow 2 compliance buyouts per team.

Jets have 9 guys signed BUT it's a safe bet Little, Wheeler, Burmistrov and Bogosian will be back. Plus Scheifele, Cormier and one of Postma/Redmond will graduate. So realistically we will need about 2F, 1D and a backup goalie and have around $12M to spend.

Is this advantageous? Boston had the lowest number of players signed coming out of the last lockout, and they were pretty terrible for the next two years. We all know how they turned it around, but that just proves Pete Chiarelli is a heck of a GM...

Some other random thoughts (reading between the lines a little):

- Montreal's not in as bad shape as it appears - they will but out Gomez guaranteed, and likely Kaberle too
- Tampa probably buys out Lecavalier. They will still need to fill a lot of holes.
- Vancouver trades Lalongo for 2-3 cheap, young warm bodies and probably keeps Edler. They will still see a couple guys hit the market they probably want to keep, but they can exercise a buyout on Ballard

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Old
01-03-2013, 11:41 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Gagner is a good player and stuff... but he also happens to pretty much be a smurf, relatively speaking. In case some of you haven't noticed, the Jets are by-design intentionally moving away from icing smaller forwards. I'd rather do something like offer Burmistrov to NJD in exchange for Zajac (if he'll sign an extension here). That at least gives NJD a plausible alternative to the realization that they probably cannot afford Zajac going forward, and continues to advance the Jets plan to get bigger up front as well.
Years of controlling Burmi seems like a lot to give up for a few months of a player even if you are resigning him. I personally wouldn't make that trade. The Jets still don't have enough assets to give up a young player like Burmi in a deal.

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01-03-2013, 11:45 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Yes, but as in Nintendo hockey, you need all shapes and sizes to ice a good team: small, medium, and fat.

Seriously, though. we are not a small team by any stretch of the imagination, and if you can upgrade a small Wellwood with a vastly more talented small Gagner, IMHO you do it. Small forwards can be great for your team as long as they don't dominate your team.
You claim they aren't a small team and I'll counter with that their forwards are/were indeed a relatively small group. They are also a bit bigger than last season. That the Jets though have publicly stated that their plan is to continue to get bigger upfront backs my assertion... as they aren't making that decision within a vacuum but rather are doing so with reasoning behind it. That reason is that they most likely feel that their small forwards were physically outworked by bigger players and that smaller teams wear down over time. Wellwood isn't a sole problem but rather the combined grouping of Wellwood/Mietennen/Little/Burmistrov/etc. is too small on the whole.

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01-03-2013, 11:48 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
Some food for thought:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6855989/

Lists all teams cap commitments in 2013-14. Latest from twitter on the CBA negotiations, it seems like the NHL wants a $60M cap for 2013-14 and will allow 2 compliance buyouts per team.

Jets have 9 guys signed BUT it's a safe bet Little, Wheeler, Burmistrov and Bogosian will be back. Plus Scheifele, Cormier and one of Postma/Redmond will graduate. So realistically we will need about 2F, 1D and a backup goalie and have around $12M to spend.

Is this advantageous? Boston had the lowest number of players signed coming out of the last lockout, and they were pretty terrible for the next two years. We all know how they turned it around, but that just proves Pete Chiarelli is a heck of a GM...

Some other random thoughts (reading between the lines a little):

- Montreal's not in as bad shape as it appears - they will but out Gomez guaranteed, and likely Kaberle too
- Tampa probably buys out Lecavalier. They will still need to fill a lot of holes.
- Vancouver trades Lalongo for 2-3 cheap, young warm bodies and probably keeps Edler. They will still see a couple guys hit the market they probably want to keep, but they can exercise a buyout on Ballard
Tampa buying out Vinny Lac would surprise the heck out of me. Even with that contract they should be able to trade him somewhere.

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01-03-2013, 11:51 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You claim they aren't a small team and I'll counter with that their forwards are/were indeed a relatively small group. They are indeed a bit bigger than last season. That the Jets though have publicly stated that their plan is to continue to get bigger upfront backs my assertion... as they aren't making that decision within a vacuum but rather are doing so with reasoning behind it. That reason is that they most likely feel that their small forwards were physically outworked by bigger players and that smaller teams wear down over time. Wellwood isn't the sole problem but rather the combination of Wellwood/Mietennen/Little/Burmistrov/etc.
All I am saying is that it's about balance. Indeed the Jets want to get bigger up front, and I believe they have. You subtract a couple of small guys in Wellwood and Stapleton and add a couple of beasts in Poni and Jokinen and you are already bigger. Not to say they are done, not at all. However, if you can improve your team speed and skill up front with a smaller established forward that fits with the teams core age, I believe it's something that should be examined.

I don't think you are suggesting that the Jets would dismiss the idea outright of acquiring Sam Gagner because of his size? That would be poor roster management AFAIC

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01-03-2013, 11:54 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Years of controlling Burmi seems like a lot to give up for a few months of a player even if you are resigning him. I personally wouldn't make that trade. The Jets still don't have enough assets to give up a young player like Burmi in a deal.
Reread the post you quoted please. I essentially said I'd make that trade if done on the understanding that Zajac would sign here; as such, it is not at all a case of years of Burmistrov in exchange for a few months of Zajac.

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01-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I don't think you are suggesting that the Jets would dismiss the idea outright of acquiring Sam Gagner because of his size? That would be poor roster management AFAIC
Adding Gagner does not advance the team plan to get bigger at forward. Even if you swapped him for Burmistrov straight up you are no further ahead from a planning concept. That is poor roster management defined. Good roster management in my view is planning and sticking to a plan.

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01-03-2013, 12:00 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You claim they aren't a small team and I'll counter with that their forwards are/were indeed a relatively small group. They are also a bit bigger than last season. That the Jets though have publicly stated that their plan is to continue to get bigger upfront backs my assertion... as they aren't making that decision within a vacuum but rather are doing so with reasoning behind it. That reason is that they most likely feel that their small forwards were physically outworked by bigger players and that smaller teams wear down over time. Wellwood isn't a sole problem but rather the combined grouping of Wellwood/Mietennen/Little/Burmistrov/etc. is too small on the whole.
FWIW, the Jets were the 7th tallest team in the league last year. Of course, not all their big guys play a big game (looking at you Wheeler). They were also only 17th in weight though. Getting heavier wouldn't hurt, especially given how much and Chevy and Noel both talk about weight.
http://blackbluegold.wordpress.com/2...eams-and-size/

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01-03-2013, 12:03 PM
  #310
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One thing to keep in mind with these buyouts, they are buyouts not releases. That means the teams do actually have to pay to get out of these contracts. So big longterm deals like Lecavalier and Luongo are extremely unlikely to be bought out, IMO, since that means huge money paid out. Moreso the cap killing deals like Gomez/Redden will be bought out, and overpaid 2nd/3rd liners like Rich Peverley, Keith Ballard, Jiri Hudler, Ville Leino, etc. IMO.

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01-03-2013, 12:05 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
FWIW, the Jets were the 7th tallest team in the league last year. Of course, not all their big guys play a big game (looking at you Wheeler). They were also only 17th in weight though. Getting heavier wouldn't hurt, especially given how much and Chevy and Noel both talk about weight.
http://blackbluegold.wordpress.com/2...eams-and-size/
Of course getting heavier would help. That is why you move a player like Burmistrov (who weighed in at a meager 176 pounds this season) ASAP, especially if in exchange for a much larger player like a Zajac.

The term "playing heavy" (used often by Chevy and Noel) however more-so refers to playing a physical game in my view, to competing and winning battles.

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01-03-2013, 12:08 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Adding Gagner does not advance the team plan to get bigger at forward. Even if you swapped him for Burmistrov straight up you are no further ahead from a planning concept. That is poor roster management defined. Good roster management in my view is planning and sticking to a plan.
Good management is having a plan, while being flexible and adjusting to opportunities.
Gagner is 5 11 and 195, ~ 7 lbs lighter than the league average for forwards. Claude Giroux is listed as 5'11 and 172 on a Philly team that has always valued size. Now, Gagner is no Giroux, but there are lots of big teams with very good players of their size.

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01-03-2013, 12:10 PM
  #313
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... and overpaid 2nd/3rd liners like Rich Peverley,... IMO.

wait..... what

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01-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Reread the post you quoted please. I essentially said I'd make that trade if done on the understanding that Zajac would sign here; as such, it is not at all a case of years of Burmistrov in exchange for a few months of Zajac.
Regardless of an extension, NJ would be giving up a few months of Zajac for years Burmi.

I'd rather keep Burmi then bid on Zajac in free agency or trade for somebody much much cheaper. Burmi isn't exactly a small price to pay.

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01-03-2013, 12:13 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Good management is having a plan, while being flexible and adjusting to opportunities.
Gagner is 5 11 and 195, ~ 7 lbs lighter than the league average for forwards. Claude Giroux is listed as 5'11 and 172 on a Philly team that has always valued size. Now, Gagner is no Giroux, but there are lots of big teams with very good players of their size.
Yes, but Philly don't exactly surround Giroux with small forwards either. Adding Gagner into the current mix does not advance group size - which the Jets are currently intentionally addressing and in a contrary manner.

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01-03-2013, 12:13 PM
  #316
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I really don't like the thought of trading a young player with potential who has shown some nice use of his tools this far, for a player who will be a UFA in 6 months. Even if Zajac said he's re-sign with us if we acquired him, I still wouldn't do it. If Zajac would re-sign, then Zajac would sign here as a UFA.

Now, obviously acquiring Zajac would give us the guarantee of negotiating a new deal with him, thus taking away any chance NJ could re-sign him. I still wouldn't do it though as I don't believe it's worth the trade off of Burmistrov when the chances of us signing Zajac as a UFA if he were interested in being a Winnipeg Jet are potentially very good.

Poor asset management in my opinion when the chance of getting him for free in 6 months are quite good. If Zajac would welcome being a Jet and the Jets would welcome Zajac, make it happen for free in 6 months.

Just my opinion.

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01-03-2013, 12:14 PM
  #317
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One thing to keep in mind with these buyouts, they are buyouts not releases. That means the teams do actually have to pay to get out of these contracts. So big longterm deals like Lecavalier and Luongo are extremely unlikely to be bought out, IMO, since that means huge money paid out. Moreso the cap killing deals like Gomez/Redden will be bought out, and overpaid 2nd/3rd liners like Rich Peverley, Keith Ballard, Jiri Hudler, Ville Leino, etc. IMO.
That's how I see it too. It may put a few fun pieces on the market, but not much.

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01-03-2013, 12:16 PM
  #318
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Regardless of an extension, NJ would be giving up a few months of Zajac for years Burmi.

I'd rather keep Burmi then bid on Zajac in free agency or trade for somebody much much cheaper. Burmi isn't exactly a small price to pay.
If you signed Zajac to a multi-year deal then it becomes more a case of apples/apples. Burmistrov is indeed a small price to pay to get ahead of the rest of the crowd; 176 pounds to be exact. NJD have likely already made plans to move forward without Zajac - they are essentially near broke and as well are near under full league control. They'll need to move him prior to losing him; that is the point. They may in fact be open to allowing the Jets to negotiate with him prior to a trade.

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01-03-2013, 12:18 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
If you signed Zajac to a multi-year deal then it becomes more a case of apples/apples. Burmistrov is indeed a small price to pay to get ahead of the rest of the crowd; 176 pounds to be exact.
Well who's to say Burmistrov couldn't fetch us a pretty good top 4 defenceman? Poor asset management to trade Burmistrov for Zajac given the circumstances.

I'll take my chances on:

Zajac - Free
Top 4 defenceman - via trade for Burmistrov


2 birds. One stone.

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01-03-2013, 12:20 PM
  #320
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I really don't like the thought of trading a young player with potential who has shown some nice use of his tools this far, for a player who will be a UFA in 6 months. Even if Zajac said he's re-sign with us if we acquired him, I still wouldn't do it. If Zajac would re-sign, then Zajac would sign here as a UFA.

Now, obviously acquiring Zajac would give us the guarantee of negotiating a new deal with him, thus taking away any chance NJ could re-sign him. I still wouldn't do it though as I don't believe it's worth the trade off of Burmistrov when the chances of us signing Zajac as a UFA if he were interested in being a Winnipeg Jet are potentially very good.

Poor asset management in my opinion when the chance of getting him for free in 6 months are quite good. If Zajac would welcome being a Jet and the Jets would welcome Zajac, make it happen for free in 6 months.

Just my opinion.
I agree 100%. I'd be game to move some lesser assets for neg rights. For example:

Postma (who I think is redundant in the Jets system) and maybe 2nd round pick, but definitely not Burmi.

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01-03-2013, 12:24 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Well who's to say Burmistrov couldn't fetch us a pretty good top 4 defenceman? Poor asset management to trade Burmistrov for Zajac given the circumstances.

I'll take my chances on:

Zajac - Free
Top 4 defenceman - via trade for Burmistrov


2 birds. One stone.
Zajac doesn't come free but rather comes in competition with anyone else that may want him. It is not a simple matter of the Jets getting him by default if he becomes a free agent. You have to give to get in most cases. You've offered one suggestion but what the Jets need on the back end can conversely just as easily be accomplished via free agency.

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01-03-2013, 12:27 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Zajac doesn't come free but rather comes in competition with anyone else that may want him. You have to give to get. You've offered one suggestion but what the Jets need on the back end can conversely just as easily be accomplished via free agency.
If Zajac is interested in Winnipeg, and Winnipeg is interested in Zajac, I'll take my chances with free agency in acquiring him.

Still very poor asset management to give up Burmistrov for Zajac, in my opinion.

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01-03-2013, 12:32 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Well who's to say Burmistrov couldn't fetch us a pretty good top 4 defenceman? Poor asset management to trade Burmistrov for Zajac given the circumstances.

I'll take my chances on:

Zajac - Free
Top 4 defenceman - via trade for Burmistrov


2 birds. One stone.
Yeah. The big win is to have Zajac AND Burmi (or someone else) IMO.

When it becomes either / or I don't like it as much.

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01-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #324
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If Zajac is interested in Winnipeg, and Winnipeg is interested in Zajac, I'll take my chances with free agency in acquiring him.

Still very poor asset management to give up Burmistrov for Zajac, in my opinion.
Again, Zajac may be just as interested in any other team that seeks him out via UFA as well. That is proactively cured though by a potential sign and trade to Winnipeg.

I don't see how it is a case of poor asset management to swap a player with a possibly dubious future here in exchange for a Zajac. Frankly, for all we know the plan was to bury Burmistrov in the A for much of this season; based upon his play last season it would be warranted in my view. He slots into a third or fourth line role on this team going forward, again, in my view; swapping that in exchange for a larger, second line centre is conversely a good deal.

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01-03-2013, 12:38 PM
  #325
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Again, Zajac may be just as interested in any other team that seeks him out as UFA as well.

I don't see how it is a case of poor asset management to swap a player with a possibly dubious future here in exchange for a Zajac. Frankly, for all we know the plan was to bury Burmistrov in the A for much of this season; based upon his play last season it would be warranted in my view. He slots into a third of fourth line role on this team going forward, again, in my view; swapping that in exchange for a larger, second line centre is conversely a good deal.
You can talk down Burmistrov all day long but i'd much rather swing for Zajac via UFA and use Burmistrov as a trading chip elsewhere on the roster, or, keep him as our own roster asset and see what he becomes. Either way, I wouldn't trade him as an asset for someone we could very well have for free. Not smart.

We won't agree on this subject.

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