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Old
01-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #776
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
1. We have a Raymond and his name is MacArthur and if you have not realized we are looking to trade him.

2. Toronto can't move guy like Gunnarsson as our D is not as good as it is made to believe.

3. Kulemin value is so low right now moving him makes no sense for us and it is because of this most Van fans will say "He is a 7 goal scorer."
I wouldn't do that trade either. Kulemin and Raymond are essentially equal. Gunnarsson just to replace Ballard on the bottom pairing is not worth trading Luongo for, and while Finn is a good prospect he doesn't make up the difference. Huge hell no.

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01-02-2013, 10:14 PM
  #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't do that trade either. Kulemin and Raymond are essentially equal. Gunnarsson just to replace Ballard on the bottom pairing is not worth trading Luongo for, and while Finn is a good prospect he doesn't make up the difference. Huge hell no.
Good we are in agreement /thread

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Old
01-02-2013, 10:16 PM
  #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't do that trade either. Kulemin and Raymond are essentially equal. Gunnarsson just to replace Ballard on the bottom pairing is not worth trading Luongo for, and while Finn is a good prospect he doesn't make up the difference. Huge hell no.
Would you trade Mason Raymond for Nik Kulemin?

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01-02-2013, 10:19 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by WhatASaveDave View Post
To

Roberto Luongo
Andrew Alberts
Andrew Ebbett

To

Tyler Bozak
Carl Gunnarson
Mike Brown
2nd round pick 2013
rights to Cody Franson

based on if their is a compliance buyout and if Vancouver buys out Ballard
No thanks from a Vancouver perspective.

Gunnarson is the only interesting piece in that deal, but I don't think management values him to high right now considering we have good LD depth.

As been mentioned already, if Vancouver does buyout Ballard (Which I don't see happening) they will do it during the offseason.

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Old
01-03-2013, 07:11 AM
  #780
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Since it bears repeating:

Lupul - (Some will argue a plus however I can take it or leave it)
Kadri/Kulemin+ (Likely a 1st and/or a good prospect)

Too much? Fine, find your goalie elsewhere.

Bozak merits some interest but only if he includes some intriguing additions, and while I like Gunnarson. He is a wasted asset in Vancouver.

In short, we are not gifting you Luongo or Schneider. Both have a price tag we intend to at least reach thereabouts.

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Old
01-03-2013, 07:35 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
In short, we are not gifting you Luongo or Schneider. Both have a price tag we intend to at least reach thereabouts.
That price tag makes it *very* easy for other teams.

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Old
01-03-2013, 08:59 AM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Then Gunnarsson would be an excellent replacement. It would give the Canucks 4 extremely steady, reliable defensemen in Hamhuis, Garrison, Gunnarsson and Tanev.

To Tor- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Gunnarsson, Kulemin, Finn
I would pull the trigger on that one, don't think Tor will give up Gunnarsson though

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01-03-2013, 09:16 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I would pull the trigger on that one, don't think Tor will give up Gunnarsson though
Not about value....we literally can't. With trading Schenn, we're left with:

Phaneuf/Gunnar
Liles/Gardiner
Komi/??? (resign Franson,Holzer,Ranger from Marlies)

That's ugly enough, remove Gunnar and it becomes catostrophic.

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01-03-2013, 09:19 AM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
That price tag makes it *very* easy for other teams.
Great, hope they succeed. You just cannot a team to gift one of their best players while getting nothing back of any benefit. Vancouver's needs are as followed:

- Top six forward
- Third line center
- Good prospects

That's it. If Luongo or Schneider to not fill one of those needs, then what purpose is there in trading them?

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01-03-2013, 09:19 AM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't do that trade either. Kulemin and Raymond are essentially equal. Gunnarsson just to replace Ballard on the bottom pairing is not worth trading Luongo for, and while Finn is a good prospect he doesn't make up the difference. Huge hell no.
Kulemin is much better than Raymond

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01-03-2013, 09:26 AM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Great, hope they succeed. You just cannot a team to gift one of their best players while getting nothing back of any benefit. Vancouver's needs are as followed:

- Top six forward
- Third line center
- Good prospects

That's it. If Luongo or Schneider to not fill one of those needs, then what purpose is there in trading them?
The problem is, most Nuck's fans want all of the above and a 1st thrown on top. The Leafs can't afford that. What i'd like to see is this, instead of only TO players listed, lets see Nuck's fans start trying proposals from the other 5 teams they say are interested. That way when fans of those teams decline, it will give Nuck's fans someone else to call crazy.

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01-03-2013, 09:27 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Not about value....we literally can't. With trading Schenn, we're left with:

Phaneuf/Gunnar
Liles/Gardiner
Komi/??? (resign Franson,Holzer,Ranger from Marlies)

That's ugly enough, remove Gunnar and it becomes catostrophic.
Have to agree. That defense would be just tragic. Although, you could always sign Redd-

I couldn't resist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Kulemin is much better than Raymond
And just for the record, lest all Nuck fans get lumped together. I agree Kulemin > Raymond.

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Old
01-03-2013, 09:28 AM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Have to agree. That defense would be just tragic. Although, you could always sign Redd-

I couldn't resist.


And just for the record, lest all Nuck fans get lumped together. I agree Kulemin > Raymond.
And a big LOL to you sir!!

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01-03-2013, 09:35 AM
  #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The problem is, most Nuck's fans want all of the above and a 1st thrown on top. The Leafs can't afford that. What i'd like to see is this, instead of only TO players listed, lets see Nuck's fans start trying proposals from the other 5 teams they say are interested. That way when fans of those teams decline, it will give Nuck's fans someone else to call crazy.


You want other teams chiming in on value? Go take a look at the earlier threads. I'm sure you'll find something from FLA, WPG, SJ... I'm sure of it. I just can't be bothered to look for it, but I remember seeing it there. Even CLB I think.



Canucks fans have taken a look at _everything_ and they are still saying certain Leafs fans aren't offering enough... because they aren't. Hey what a concept? Questioning value being given because it's not being given. Astounding.

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01-03-2013, 09:50 AM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The problem is, most Nuck's fans want all of the above and a 1st thrown on top. The Leafs can't afford that. What i'd like to see is this, instead of only TO players listed, lets see Nuck's fans start trying proposals from the other 5 teams they say are interested. That way when fans of those teams decline, it will give Nuck's fans someone else to call crazy.
Fair enough. Some demands are a bit excessive. But since you brought it up, I'll bit on some of the players I'd want from other teams.

Chicago: Bolland, Saad, Teravainen, Hayes brothers.
Edmonton: Gagner, Hemsky, a fair number of their defense prospects
Florida: Petrovic, Howden, Bjugstad
San Jose: Clowe, few of their center prospects
Philadelphia: Voracek, Simmonds
New Jersey: Merrill, Clarkson

Disclaimer: All above is merely players of interest, not any definition packages or what have you. Picks are not mentioned because they are always valuable. Likewise, I neither expect all those players are available nor that the teams involved are interested; opting only to list teams who have been mentioned at one time or another. This is not exclusively Luongo, as a few of those I would readily move Schneider for. And finally, this presumes no radical changes to the CBA prevent such transaction. Obviously, a cap reduction to $58-63M severely limits any potential return.

In fact, if Teravainen or Saad were worked into a package. I would trade Schneider to Chicago despite many Vancouver fans cursing the idea.

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01-03-2013, 10:25 AM
  #791
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I am sure the Nucks will get some value back for Luongo but that 2nd buyout is interesting............TO really needs to get Luongo........Franson and Bozak I heard was a rumor. Given Vancouver is stuck needing to get under the cap for next yr they should take that deal in my books as long as TO adds some picks

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Old
01-03-2013, 10:26 AM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Not about value....we literally can't. With trading Schenn, we're left with:

Phaneuf/Gunnar
Liles/Gardiner
Komi/??? (resign Franson,Holzer,Ranger from Marlies)

That's ugly enough, remove Gunnar and it becomes catostrophic.
Komisarek is a buyout no doubt

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Old
01-03-2013, 10:32 AM
  #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Komisarek is a buyout no doubt
We are good under the cap, he has 1 more year and we actually need him....why buy him out?

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01-03-2013, 10:39 AM
  #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You want other teams chiming in on value? Go take a look at the earlier threads. I'm sure you'll find something from FLA, WPG, SJ... I'm sure of it. I just can't be bothered to look for it, but I remember seeing it there. Even CLB I think.



Canucks fans have taken a look at _everything_ and they are still saying certain Leafs fans aren't offering enough... because they aren't. Hey what a concept? Questioning value being given because it's not being given. Astounding.
It doesn't matter if Nuck's fans feel Burke isn't offering enough....it really doesn't. Burke (or Leaf fans) are offering what they feel the team can afford to give up. If that ends up not being enough,well, so be it. You can't continually call Burke (and Leaf fans) idiots because they aren't willing to let the Canucks have a free shopping spree.

Bottom line Bleach, Burke will only aquire Luongo if the price works. If Gillis doesn't deal him here, we move on.

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01-03-2013, 10:55 AM
  #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
It doesn't matter if Nuck's fans feel Burke isn't offering enough....it really doesn't. Burke (or Leaf fans) are offering what they feel the team can afford to give up. If that ends up not being enough,well, so be it. You can't continually call Burke (and Leaf fana) idiots because they aren't willing to let the Canucks have a free shopping spree.

Bottom line Bleach, Burke will only aquire Luongo if the price works. If Gillis doesn't deal him here, we move on.


When have I called Leafs fans "idiots"? Point it out to me.



The trade won't be for a price that "works", this inherently code for "give nothing" on HF. It will be for a price that's _fair_. And I have yet to see a player the calibre of Luongo not garner at least a 1st round pick (or equivalent) in trade yet. That's the precedent out there of what's fair. Not your notion of what you can give up being misconstrued as being fair. Do you get the difference?



Multiple Vezina noms, allstar, gold, high pedigree, high salaried (for a reason) player that gets gifted to a team? Why? Even Joe Thornton, who was part of one of the worst trades in memory, got 1st round equivalent talent (players you could flip for a 1st) coming back. But Luongo doesn't even deserve that? Then you want to talk age? A 36 year old Roloson got a 1st and a 3rd... So go ahead, list trades of past precedent with a player of Luongo's stature that had the selling team receive less than a 1st. Because if you can't, it's your content that doesn't matter LL.

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01-03-2013, 10:57 AM
  #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I am sure the Nucks will get some value back for Luongo but that 2nd buyout is interesting............TO really needs to get Luongo........Franson and Bozak I heard was a rumor. Given Vancouver is stuck needing to get under the cap for next yr they should take that deal in my books as long as TO adds some picks


The picks would have to be _really_ good to make up the difference. It's possibly neither Bozak nor Franson get re-signed/retained when the cap comes down next year. Actually, the likelihood is very good. So all the Canucks would be left with would be those picks.

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01-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #797
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The Canucks need to dump him for salary purposes and the market of teams looking for a goalie is very limited. The Leafs really shouldn't be giving up much. If the asking price is too high they can easily walk away.

It's not like the Leafs are suddenly Cup contenders with Luongo.

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01-03-2013, 11:01 AM
  #798
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
When have I called Leafs fans "idiots"? Point it out to me.



The trade won't be for a price that "works", this inherently code for "give nothing" on HF. It will be for a price that's _fair_. And I have yet to see a player the calibre of Luongo not garner at least a 1st round pick (or equivalent) in trade yet. That's the precedent out there of what's fair. Not your notion of what you can give up being misconstrued as being fair. Do you get the difference?



Multiple Vezina noms, allstar, gold, high pedigree, high salaried (for a reason) player that gets gifted to a team? Why? Even Joe Thornton, who was part of one of the worst trades in memory, got 1st round equivalent talent (players you could flip for a 1st) coming back. But Luongo doesn't even deserve that? Then you want to talk age? A 36 year old Roloson got a 1st and a 3rd... So go ahead, list trades of past precedent with a player of Luongo's stature that had the selling team receive less than a 1st. Because if you can't, it's your content that doesn't matter LL.
Seriously? Please point out where i said Luongo wasn't worth a 1st. I DO NOT CARE about past trades. What i said was, Burke will trade for Luongo if it works for him. If he doesn't want to move his 1st....he won't. If he doesn't want to move Gardiner....he won't. That does not in any way mean that Luongo is only worth what TO is offering, it does however mean that is all TO is willing to pay.

If another team is going to offer a package to Gillis' liking, then boom....he trades him there. You need to understand that anything being offered has more to do with what a team can give up than it does about personal feelings toward Luongo.

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01-03-2013, 11:02 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Look above this post. obviously my math was right seeing how I said we could have a 2M 3rd pairing guy and Higgins at 2M if we move luongo and the guy above has Higgins and pays some players more than I did and fits it under 64M.

But for ur sake ill do it again because obviously other canucks fans and I are terrible at math and don't know anything even if its about our own team!

D.Sedin (6.1) H.Sedin (6.1) Burrows (4.5)
Booth (4.25) Kesler (5) Kassian (.870)
Jensen (.894) Schroeder (.750) Hansen. (1.35)
Volpatti (.600) Lappierre (1.25) Weise (.600)
Pinizzatto (.600)

Garrison (4.6) Edler (5)
Hamhuis (4.5) Bieksa (4.6)
UFA (2M) Tanev (1)
Joslin (.600) UFA (.600)

Luongo (5.333)
Schneider (4)

23 man roster
Cap total: 63.297
Max cap total: 63.500

I chose 63.5M as it is smack dab in the middle of 60 and 67. And would u look at that I fit a 23 man roster into that 63.5M I said I could easily do while keeping luongo and Schneider

But no my math is wrong!!!! Canuck fans are idiots there's no way we can do it no way! This can't be possible! These numbers are all lies! Damn u canucks damn u to hell for not believing us hf posters and amnesty clausing luongo so we can get an elite goalie for free and at a cheap cap hit! Now where do we get our goalie?!? Why can't u just listen to us we know what we're talking about instead of going off on ur own and figuring out we are completely off base!
Getting closer, but not quite there. Weisse is a RFA who makes 600k or more, and is entitled to a raise of 5%, not a decrease in salary of 15k. Schroeder is already signed at a cap hit of $1,025,000. If you want to retain him as a RFA, you need to match that, not drop his salary to 700k.

You have no room for callups in the case of injury. You have a number of players in that lineup who've spent significant time on the short term IR. How do you plan to ice a complete team all year with no cap room?

Also, my previous point still stands: that you are icing a much worse team. I hope you can see how a lineup that removes Raymond, Higgins, and Malhotra, and replaces them with guys who have never played in the NHL is a huge gamble. Volpatti, Tanev, Shroeder, Kassian, Joslin, Jensen, and Pinizatto have never played a full NHL season. Now your slotting them in for full time duty.

How many good years do the Sedins have left? Are you really prepared to sacrifice that window to stubornly retain both goalies.

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01-03-2013, 11:04 AM
  #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
The Canucks need to dump him for salary purposes and the market of teams looking for a goalie is very limited. The Leafs really shouldn't be giving up much. If the asking price is too high they can easily walk away.

It's not like the Leafs are suddenly Cup contenders with Luongo.


The Canucks are fine for salary this year. 2.4m under.


I think if the Leafs aren't serious, they should absolutely walk away. There's no way the Leafs get Luongo for a song. The enmity between these GMs will ensure it. Either these two teams make a _fair_ deal, no discount, or it doesn't get done.


As an aside, I desperately want a season because I am _very_ curious to see what the Leafs will do if they should not get Luongo. Extremely interested to see this unfold sans trade.

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