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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part X)

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01-03-2013, 12:47 PM
  #326
Gump Hasek
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
You can talk down Burmistrov all day long but i'd much rather swing for Zajac via UFA and use Burmistrov as a trading chip elsewhere on the roster, or, keep him as our own roster asset and see what he becomes. Either way, I wouldn't trade him as an asset for someone we could very well have for free. Not smart.

We won't agree on this subject.
That is cool if we disagree, I wasn't asking you to agree but rather was stating my own view.

I bet TNSE would love to roll out a hometown boy in the second line centre slot. I'm betting that if that opportunity was guaranteed via a sign and trade and only came to them at the cost of moving a smallish forward and one who possibly doesn't really fit into the plan going forward... that they would likely jump at that cost and do a deal versus taking the risk that he may sign elsewhere via UFA.

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01-03-2013, 12:48 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That is cool if we disagree, I wasn't asking you to agree but rather was stating my own view.

I bet TNSE would love to roll out a hometown boy in the second line centre slot. I'm betting that if that opportunity was guaranteed via a sign and trade and only came to them at the cost of moving a smallish forward and one who arguably doesn't really fit into the plan going forward... that they would likely jump at that cost and do a deal versus taking the risk that he may sign elsewhere via UFA.
The story would be nice, and again you talking down Burmistrov, but I'm betting management is smarter with their assets than that.

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01-03-2013, 12:51 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
I'm betting management is smarter with their assets than that.
You are perhaps making an assumption that Burmistrov is viewed by them as a valuable asset going forward. He is equally likely to have been relegated into the chip variety by now on their internal depth chart.


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01-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #329
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If Zajac is interested in Winnipeg, and Winnipeg is interested in Zajac, I'll take my chances with free agency in acquiring him.

Still very poor asset management to give up Burmistrov for Zajac, in my opinion.
I think the crux of it for me is that I like Zajac, but I don't like Zajac THAT much.

I would trade Burmi in an instant if we were adding and extending a superstar, but while Zajac is a good player, he isn't a superstar. I really only see him as a marginal upgrade over Bryan Little scoring wise. He would be an upgrade, but not a huge upgrade IMO.

I'd rather have:
Burmi AND Gagner (via a lesser trade)
or
Burmi AND Zajac (via free agency)
or
Burmi AND Perry or Clarkson or Horton or whoever else.

Zajac is better than Burmi at the moment, but he may not be by the time this team is ready to contend.

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01-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You are perhaps making an assumption that Burmistrov is viewed by them as a valuable asset going forward. He is equally likely to have been relegated into the chip variety by now on their internal depth chart.

What are you basing this on exactly?

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01-03-2013, 12:56 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You are perhaps making an assumption that Burmistrov is viewed by them as a valuable asset going forward. He is equally likely to have been relegated into the chip variety by now on their internal depth chart.
Not just going forward Gump, more so in terms of today, now, this summer. If we signed Zajac as a UFA this summer, I'd certainly look at moving Burmistrov for a top 4 defenceman.

Burmistrov is an 8th overall pick 3 summers ago this June who made the jump to the NHL right away (albeit too early; rushed) and he scored nearly 15 goals last year, has the tools and smarts of a smart defensive forward, very good speed, etc.

I think his value now or this summer alone is enough to net us a top 4 defenceman, and i'd really rather value my assets more than you're doing by going after a free Zajac and using Burmistrov-asset to better the team elsewhere.

Like I said, we won't agree here.

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01-03-2013, 01:06 PM
  #332
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That is cool. We can agree to disagree. My view of Burmistrov is that he has million dollar skills but thinks the game at a sub-par level. He was in the coaches' doghouse for a reason last year. He shows flashes of physical play occasionally but more often simply softly gives the puck away and loses battles constantly... on a team that preaches winning them. He manages the puck quite poorly.

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01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That is cool. We can agree to disagree. My view of Burmistrov is that he has million dollar skills but thinks the game at a sub-par level. He was in the coaches' doghouse for a reason last year. He shows flashes of physical play occasionally but more often simply softly gives the puck away and loses battles constantly... on a team that preaches winning them. He manages the puck quite poorly.
And by all accounts has improved on those fronts while playing in the A. I think if given the chance, he could prove to be an outstanding 2C. This is going to be his third season and typically one that would show a break out year. I'd be willing to see what the kid can do.

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01-03-2013, 01:54 PM
  #334
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Maybe not, but Garret will.




have no idea if this is true... just google'd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That is cool. We can agree to disagree. My view of Burmistrov is that he has million dollar skills but thinks the game at a sub-par level. He was in the coaches' doghouse for a reason last year. He shows flashes of physical play occasionally but more often simply softly gives the puck away and loses battles constantly... on a team that preaches winning them. He manages the puck quite poorly.
To be honest Gump, I'm not sure if I really side with Truck and Guerzy with this one...
If it works out, maybe it be worth it... not sure.

It's kind of potential vs proven if you know Zajac will sign but I do like the idea of both... hmmm....

But, I do disagree with three things:
*Burmistrov was in the dog house. I think that's as true as some "Kane facts" that were pushed by Lawless. The guy was trusted with more and more even strength time and PK time as the year went on. Sounded like he was trusted by Noel to me.
*Burmistrov not in the plan. When Chevy talked about the young core improving and having taken a step forward at the end of the year, he mentioned specifically Kane(r), Bogo(sian), and Burmi(strov) (I love how Chevy uses nicknames). But, that being said, I think Chevy is a savvy GM who would trade any piece given that the price is right. Here you think it is, Truck and Guerzy don't, and I'm still undecided after writing all this.
*Burmistrov being in the AHL if the NHL had been on. No one would be able to prove one way or another, but I'm a strong promoter of placing your players in the highest competition level that they are able to get quality minutes for... whether that be Burmi, Scheif, or whomever.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Adding Gagner does not advance the team plan to get bigger at forward. Even if you swapped him for Burmistrov straight up you are no further ahead from a planning concept. That is poor roster management defined. Good roster management in my view is planning and sticking to a plan.
I think we just have to agree to disagree on this. You've made it very clear over the past year the weight you put on size

I just think you are looking at this in too much of a black and white, straight line kind of way. Gagner isn't a shrimp that's for sure, and I don't think he would hurt us. We still have bigger guys on the way. Skill is important in a line up too.

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01-03-2013, 01:56 PM
  #336
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wait..... what
Boston is staring at a situation in 13-14 with over 53 million committed to the cap already...with just 10fwds, 5d signed. You have just under 7 million dollars (based on the 60 million cap) to sign 4fwds, 2d, 2g, but that's losing Horton, so really they have like 5 top 6 forwards. Rask is going to command 4+ million of it on his own (already making 3.5). So really 4fwds, 2d, 1g for less than 3 million dollars, presumably needing a top 6 forward in there as well. Can you really be affording Peverley and Kelly at 6.25 combined price to play 3rd line? Ok Maybe it's Kelly that goes, but if I was Boston I probably buy one of them out.

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01-03-2013, 01:56 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That is cool. We can agree to disagree. My view of Burmistrov is that he has million dollar skills but thinks the game at a sub-par level. He was in the coaches' doghouse for a reason last year. He shows flashes of physical play occasionally but more often simply softly gives the puck away and loses battles constantly... on a team that preaches winning them. He manages the puck quite poorly.
I'm with you here, Gump. I'm not of the belief he's going to be a top-line player on a good team for that reason.

A real close comparable to me (since I'm a converted Sens fan) is Antoine Vermette. Great skater, good hands, but knocked off the puck like a feather. Vermy had a couple of good seasons in Ottawa and one for Columbus, but just wasn't able to put it all together enough to get to crack the Top-6 of a good team.

If anything, Vermette will probably be a better rounded NHLer because he was great in the dot and could kill penalties.

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01-03-2013, 01:57 PM
  #338
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I would like to see Burmi continue to develop as an excellent defensive forward, with upper end potential. That way, he will not be top-6 or bust, the way so many other prospects are. If he excels this year on a 3rd line with Poni and Antro (somewhat the way Jordan Staal did in Pitts), he will be an extremely valuable asset. If and when he shows he can put up top-6 numbers, so much the better. I don't really see any need to gnash teeth about Burmi so long as expectations are realistic.

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01-03-2013, 02:06 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Not just going forward Gump, more so in terms of today, now, this summer. If we signed Zajac as a UFA this summer, I'd certainly look at moving Burmistrov for a top 4 defenceman.

Burmistrov is an 8th overall pick 3 summers ago this June who made the jump to the NHL right away (albeit too early; rushed) and he scored nearly 15 goals last year, has the tools and smarts of a smart defensive forward, very good speed, etc.

I think his value now or this summer alone is enough to net us a top 4 defenceman, and i'd really rather value my assets more than you're doing by going after a free Zajac and using Burmistrov-asset to better the team elsewhere.

Like I said, we won't agree here.

I think I'd have to agree with you here and I do believe there would be pretty good interest league wide if Burmistrov were to be made available.

I see Phoenix and Nashville as being natural fits because both teams seem to need a forward with offensive upside while leaning towards forwards with some form of defensive awareness. Both teams may have defensemen that the JETS would covet.

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01-03-2013, 02:09 PM
  #340
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Boston is staring at a situation in 13-14 with over 53 million committed to the cap already...with just 10fwds, 5d signed. You have just under 7 million dollars (based on the 60 million cap) to sign 4fwds, 2d, 2g, but that's losing Horton, so really they have like 5 top 6 forwards. Rask is going to command 4+ million of it on his own (already making 3.5). So really 4fwds, 2d, 1g for less than 3 million dollars, presumably needing a top 6 forward in there as well. Can you really be affording Peverley and Kelly at 6.25 combined price to play 3rd line? Ok Maybe it's Kelly that goes, but if I was Boston I probably buy one of them out.
Didn't they JUST sign Kelly? Peverly will be in the mix, but I think Savard will be the one to watch.

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01-03-2013, 02:12 PM
  #341
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Didn't they JUST sign Kelly? Peverly will be in the mix, but I think Savard will be the one to watch.
Oh, I didn't include Savard in my numbers, since they will just stash him on LTIR for the rest of his contract (he's not coming back). If you include Savard they have less than 3 million to sign 3fwds, 2d, 2g.

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01-03-2013, 02:15 PM
  #342
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I would like to see Burmi continue to develop as an excellent defensive forward, with upper end potential. That way, he will not be top-6 or bust, the way so many other prospects are. If he excels this year on a 3rd line with Poni and Antro (somewhat the way Jordan Staal did in Pitts), he will be an extremely valuable asset. If and when he shows he can put up top-6 numbers, so much the better. I don't really see any need to gnash teeth about Burmi so long as expectations are realistic.
very much agree with this Scel. Given burmis defensive acumen as it stands, he's already avoided the "top six or bust" label IMO, as he has already proven to be a more then capable third line/defensive specialist duties (as per advanced stats, toi, etc, and my personal eye test).

I also don't think that you trade him for Zajac, but i guess its because i too operate on the assumption that if we can trade and resign him when he's 4 months from FA, then we should have a reasonable opportunity at signing him out of FA. (Also i'd like to say I think most trade/resign deals happen with still a full season left on the contract, something to consider as i think most players that make it into their final season before F/A without an extension, do not resign with their current team, or at least only do so after fielding offers in FA).

Though i get the "bigger" angle of the jets, i do think they will be flexible on it to a degree. The flyers are a good example. Heralded as a "big" team, 2 years ago they had Giroux, Richards, Brier and Timmonen. If you ever seen Richards live you know he's not the 5'11 he's listed at (though he definitely plays big), and even Simon Gagne (who was part of that team) though decently tall doesn't exactly play a big game.

I think it's important to complement size with skill, if you can get both in one package, great, but players with size and skill are generally in the upper echelon of the talent/payscale, meaning your probably only going to afford a few of them.

That means the rest of your roster is going to be giants who have average to sub average skill or average to above average skilled small players.

Personally, i'd prefer to see enough talent in the bottom six to keep them somewhat of an offensive threat at least, rather then 2 lines of average giants.

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01-03-2013, 02:19 PM
  #343
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Didn't they JUST sign Kelly? Peverly will be in the mix, but I think Savard will be the one to watch.
savard doesn't count against the cap I don't think. They could buy him out, but I doubt it would do them any good.

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01-03-2013, 02:21 PM
  #344
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savard doesn't count against the cap I don't think. They could buy him out, but I doubt it would do them any good.
Yeah. I wasn't sure if he was included in those figures. Looks like they already excluded him.

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01-03-2013, 02:25 PM
  #345
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Yeah. I wasn't sure if he was included in those figures. Looks like they already excluded him.
They will definitely have to buy someone else out. But Thomas's contract will be coming off the books as well, I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not.

OOC, can you buy out a player and then resign him?

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01-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #346
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They will definitely have to buy someone else out. But Thomas's contract will be coming off the books as well, I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not.

OOC, can you buy out a player and then resign him?
That's why I said in my numbers they needed 2g, both Thomas and Rask are free agents after this year (Thomas UFA, Rask RFA).

Normally, you need to wait 1 year before you can sign a player you bought out...but there is a chance that the "exemption buyout", which will be a one-time thing similiar to the one offered just before the implementation of the cap in 05, will waive this rule. We will have to wait until the CBA is released to know for sure.

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01-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #347
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I think the crux of it for me is that I like Zajac, but I don't like Zajac THAT much.

I would trade Burmi in an instant if we were adding and extending a superstar, but while Zajac is a good player, he isn't a superstar. I really only see him as a marginal upgrade over Bryan Little scoring wise. He would be an upgrade, but not a huge upgrade IMO.

I'd rather have:
Burmi AND Gagner (via a lesser trade)
or
Burmi AND Zajac (via free agency)
or
Burmi AND Perry or Clarkson or Horton or whoever else.

Zajac is better than Burmi at the moment, but he may not be by the time this team is ready to contend.
To tell you the truth I'd be surprised if Burnistrov ever gets as good as Zajac is now. He's a perfect fit for any team at #2 Center. He was an integral part of the Devils getting to the finals. Especially the Jets who are more defense first then a lot of teams.

It would be great to keep Burmi AND add Zajac via UFA. Could be a tall order though. Then again, if all the big suitors potentially have their eyes on Getzlaf/Perry, we could probably get him signed to a decent contract. I'd give him somewhere in between Kesler and Toews money, given the natural inflation of the cap if it was on a 5-6 year deal.

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01-03-2013, 02:32 PM
  #348
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They will definitely have to buy someone else out. But Thomas's contract will be coming off the books as well, I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not.

OOC, can you buy out a player and then resign him?
Not really.

Ference + Thomas come off the books, but bigger deals to Seguin, Marchand, and Lucic kick in as well. Not to mention needing to resign Rask.

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01-03-2013, 02:38 PM
  #349
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They will definitely have to buy someone else out. But Thomas's contract will be coming off the books as well, I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not.

OOC, can you buy out a player and then resign him?
I would think that if forced to get rid of Peverly, Kelly, etc because of salaries that the Bruins would look to trade Krecji and get a young player of around equal value back from a team that needs a Center.

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01-03-2013, 02:41 PM
  #350
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I would think that if forced to get rid of Peverly, Kelly, etc because of salaries that the Bruins would look to trade Krecji and get a young player of around equal value back from a team that needs a Center.
Instead of buying one out? I agree that Krejci is probably on the block with Seguin coming up.

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