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3rd line center if/when we get started

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Old
01-03-2013, 12:19 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by McSauer View Post
His NO FINISH + Insane amounts of ice time = almost no production whatsoever (aside from his week+ hot streak we'll see at some point...)
Boyle produced at a very respectable pace at even strength last season, but hey, who needs facts?

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That is, more or less my point.
Right, duh.

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01-03-2013, 12:27 PM
  #27
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Finish from whom exactly? Prust? Fedotenko? He's a third line center. You don't judge a third line center on finish (which I assume you mean goal-scoring). He was the best forward on the team in early part of the OTT series.
Yeah, that was his one week of good play last year.

He's a fourth line center, who happens to play on our third line and gets top 6 minutes; something wrong with that picture.

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01-03-2013, 12:29 PM
  #28
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No way. Gomez on the third line? Why?
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Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
Someone hasn't seen a MTL game the last few years.... He's no upgrade...
To respond to two different comments in one post...

I've seen my fair-share of Gomez's games in Montreal, and I'm not convinced he's as bad as his numbers suggest. Injury riddled season last year clearly got to his head. I remember watching him in the playoffs for the Habs in 2011 and he was all over the ice.

I think the money and the media got to him up in Montreal. I think Gainey put the Habs in a poor situation with too many USA natives on that team, and I think they all felt the pressure to perform. Gomez even more so because of the contract that he had.

In my mind, I think Gomez is an offensive upgrade over Boyle and is also a good two-way player. He doesn't have the defensive chops that Boyle has, but I really think if we go into the season with Boyle as the 4C that this Rangers team has serious depth. Not to mention if (God forbid) Stepan or Richards goes down with an injury, I'd much rather have a guy like Gomez in the top-6 than Boyle.

I think he would fit Torts' system well and play his ass off for the team. Would love to see Gomez be able to run a powerplay with Nash or Gaborik. Too often last season we saw Gaborik try to carry the puck up the ice on the PP and that is not where Gaborik needs to be used. That was the main issue with Jagr and Gomez being that they both wanted the puck from coast-to-coast. That's not an issue with Gomez and Gaborik, and can allow Gaborik the space he needs to get open in the offensive zone.

But it is a bit unfair to be speculating things like this, as I thought Gomez and Jagr would be the perfect duo together, it's hard to imagine how things would work out on the ice before they're actually presented to you in game form.

I know it's probably just me, and maybe a few other posters on this forum, but I'd take Gomez over Boyle at 3C any day of the week.

EDIT - And I vehemently disagree with anyone who puts JT Miller anywhere near the Rangers lineup, at all, if a season is played this year. He's not ready for NHL action.


Last edited by silverfish: 01-03-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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01-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by McSauer View Post
While Boyle will be our third line center, it is a HUGE weakness for this team. If he was on the 4th line, it would be an ideal situation, but that's not how it will go with Tort's obsession with him. He has absolutely no finish. He kills penalties, awesome; he should not have any even strength time...such a shame the time he gets...

My ideal situation would be for Miller to make the team and be our 3rd line center (I def think he could) and move Boyle down, but that just will not happen...ugh
So you would rather absolutely destroy a good prospect than have Brian Boyle as your 3rd line center?

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01-03-2013, 12:34 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
To respond to two different comments in one post...

I've seen my fair-share of Gomez's games in Montreal, and I'm not convinced he's as bad as his numbers suggest. Injury riddled season last year clearly got to his head. I remember watching him in the playoffs for the Habs in 2011 and he was all over the ice.

I think the money and the media got to him up in Montreal. I think Gainey put the Habs in a poor situation with too many USA natives on that team, and I think they all felt the pressure to perform. Gomez even more so because of the contract that he had.

In my mind, I think Gomez is an offensive upgrade over Boyle and is also a good two-way player. He doesn't have the defensive chops that Boyle has, but I really think if we go into the season with Boyle as the 4C that this Rangers team has serious depth. Not to mention if (God forbid) Stepan or Richards goes down with an injury, I'd much rather have a guy like Gomez in the top-6 than Boyle.

I think he would fit Torts' system well and play his ass off for the team. Would love to see Gomez be able to run a powerplay with Nash or Gaborik. Too often last season we saw Gaborik try to carry the puck up the ice on the PP and that is not where Gaborik needs to be used. That was the main issue with Jagr and Gomez being that they both wanted the puck from coast-to-coast. That's not an issue with Gomez and Gaborik, and can allow Gaborik the space he needs to get open in the offensive zone.

But it is a bit unfair to be speculating things like this, as I thought Gomez and Jagr would be the perfect duo together, it's hard to imagine how things would work out on the ice before they're actually presented to you in game form.

I know it's probably just me, and maybe a few other posters on this forum, but I'd take Gomez over Boyle at 3C any day of the week.
id rather have retired Mark Messier Wayne Gretzky or even Ken Gernander or Derek Armstrong at their age today over Gomez...

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01-03-2013, 12:36 PM
  #31
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id rather have retired Mark Messier Wayne Gretzky or even Ken Gernander or Derek Armstrong at their age today over Gomez...
LOL Okay. Couldn't disagree more, but okay.

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01-03-2013, 12:36 PM
  #32
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Yeah, that was his one week of good play last year.

He's a fourth line center, who happens to play on our third line and gets top 6 minutes; something wrong with that picture.
Was it that the Rangers were one of the best teams in the league with this formula?

Because the only thing I see wrong with this picture is that, like so many Boyle haters, he makes you feel

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01-03-2013, 12:39 PM
  #33
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I am not at all opposed to fortifying our bottom six, but not with a guy like Gomez or Lecavalier. If a good bottom six player becomes available, I would pick him up. I'm not talking about an Asham or Rupp type but a Tyler Kennedy (not him, just an example) or someone who is a legit third line player. Even if on a one year deal, until Miller is ready and Kreider is proven. I think we could use a little fortification in the bottom six. I'm not sold on Pyatt or a fourth line of Rupp-Halpern-Asham.

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01-03-2013, 12:44 PM
  #34
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I'm more bothered by Asham being an every day player on this team than I am Boyle as a 3rd line center.

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01-03-2013, 12:45 PM
  #35
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I am not at all opposed to fortifying our bottom six, but not with a guy like Gomez or Lecavalier. If a good bottom six player becomes available, I would pick him up. I'm not talking about an Asham or Rupp type but a Tyler Kennedy (not him, just an example) or someone who is a legit third line player. Even if on a one year deal, until Miller is ready and Kreider is proven. I think we could use a little fortification in the bottom six. I'm not sold on Pyatt or a fourth line of Rupp-Halpern-Asham.
I agree. Its a valuable commodity to have a guy that knows and accepts his bottom 6 role. Why would anyone want a rapidly declining Scott Gomez come in and play a role that hes never played and, quite frankly, is incapable of fulfilling.

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01-03-2013, 12:47 PM
  #36
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So Boyle had 24 ESP in 82 NHL GP last season = 0.29 ESP/Gm

Miller has 10 ESP in 26 AHL GP this season = 0.38 ESP/Gm

And people are convinced Miller is a better option than Boyle why?

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01-03-2013, 12:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
To respond to two different comments in one post...

I've seen my fair-share of Gomez's games in Montreal, and I'm not convinced he's as bad as his numbers suggest. Injury riddled season last year clearly got to his head. I remember watching him in the playoffs for the Habs in 2011 and he was all over the ice.

I think the money and the media got to him up in Montreal. I think Gainey put the Habs in a poor situation with too many USA natives on that team, and I think they all felt the pressure to perform. Gomez even more so because of the contract that he had.

In my mind, I think Gomez is an offensive upgrade over Boyle and is also a good two-way player. He doesn't have the defensive chops that Boyle has, but I really think if we go into the season with Boyle as the 4C that this Rangers team has serious depth. Not to mention if (God forbid) Stepan or Richards goes down with an injury, I'd much rather have a guy like Gomez in the top-6 than Boyle.

I think he would fit Torts' system well and play his ass off for the team. Would love to see Gomez be able to run a powerplay with Nash or Gaborik. Too often last season we saw Gaborik try to carry the puck up the ice on the PP and that is not where Gaborik needs to be used. That was the main issue with Jagr and Gomez being that they both wanted the puck from coast-to-coast. That's not an issue with Gomez and Gaborik, and can allow Gaborik the space he needs to get open in the offensive zone.

But it is a bit unfair to be speculating things like this, as I thought Gomez and Jagr would be the perfect duo together, it's hard to imagine how things would work out on the ice before they're actually presented to you in game form.

I know it's probably just me, and maybe a few other posters on this forum, but I'd take Gomez over Boyle at 3C any day of the week.

EDIT - And I vehemently disagree with anyone who puts JT Miller anywhere near the Rangers lineup, at all, if a season is played this year. He's not ready for NHL action.
I agree with the 2nd part... I have no desire to rush Miller at all. A cup of coffee late in the year wouldn't be awful, but just let his game grow in the AHL...

As for the first part... I can only imagine that you grew up as a Ranger fan during the Gomez tenure and like the guy. He adds absolutely zero to this team. In his best day he was a playmaker... so you're putting him on a 3rd or 4th line with no one who can score? The PP? You want Richards running things... not a pass - no shot - player like Gomez. If I have to watch him fire a lazy wrister into a goalies chest ever again, then I'm skipping an entire year of Ranger hockey. I'd much rather watch Redden or even Drury come back. Bring back Nedved if you want... he tried out a few years ago, and I'd bet money that he could add more than Gomez.

With that said, I wouldn't be against 3rd line depth or a 3rd pairing d-man on a 1 year deal if the cap allows...

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01-03-2013, 12:50 PM
  #38
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I'd add that I have no problem with Boyle as a 3C.... The only part of that I find concerning is that if Richards or Stepan go down then he's a 2C... That wouldn't be too successful, but I guess that's why you have a trade market - and maybe next year you have Miller...

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01-03-2013, 12:54 PM
  #39
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I'd add that I have no problem with Boyle as a 3C.... The only part of that I find concerning is that if Richards or Stepan go down then he's a 2C... That wouldn't be too successful, but I guess that's why you have a trade market - and maybe next year you have Miller...
I understand that, but honestly thats a threat that every single team in the NHL thinks about.

As others have mentioned, Asham in the bottom 6 bothers me far more than Boyle as the 3C. With that said, so does Eminger/Bickel/Gilroy battling for the #6 D-man spot.

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01-03-2013, 12:55 PM
  #40
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I'd add that I have no problem with Boyle as a 3C.... The only part of that I find concerning is that if Richards or Stepan go down then he's a 2C... That wouldn't be too successful, but I guess that's why you have a trade market - and maybe next year you have Miller...
Not much you can do about that. Aren't many teams who have viable top-six centers on their 3rd line. If they do, they tend to lack depth in other areas.

I too have no issue with Boyle as the 3rd line C. He should get a bump in PPG this year with better players on his wings. Likely some combination of Hagelin, Kreider and Pyatt.

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01-03-2013, 01:06 PM
  #41
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Theres nothing I can do about where he'll end up playing but it'll probably be on third line. I don't know why torts keeps giving him top minutes tho in the third period because he has no offensive skill whatsoever. The 2010-11 season was a fluke for him and he was just utterly painful to watch in the offensive zone last season. He needs to learn how to win draws and use his size. For crying out loud, he's frankenstein out there and doesn't know how to shield the puck or even generate any traffic in front of the net.

I'd take miller on third line anyday. After some ahl and 2 WJC, he's ready for nhl. No need to still play on a crappy Whale team for the rest of the season.

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01-03-2013, 01:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by McSauer View Post
Theres nothing I can do about where he'll end up playing but it'll probably be on third line. I don't know why torts keeps giving him top minutes tho in the third period because he has no offensive skill whatsoever. The 2010-11 season was a fluke for him and he was just utterly painful to watch in the offensive zone last season. He needs to learn how to win draws and use his size. For crying out loud, he's frankenstein out there and doesn't know how to shield the puck or even generate any traffic in front of the net.

I'd take miller on third line anyday. After some ahl and 2 WJC, he's ready for nhl. No need to still play on a crappy Whale team for the rest of the season.
51.8%

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01-03-2013, 01:09 PM
  #43
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Theres nothing I can do about where he'll end up playing but it'll probably be on third line. I don't know why torts keeps giving him top minutes tho in the third period because he has no offensive skill whatsoever. The 2010-11 season was a fluke for him and he was just utterly painful to watch in the offensive zone last season. He needs to learn how to win draws and use his size. For crying out loud, he's frankenstein out there and doesn't know how to shield the puck or even generate any traffic in front of the net.

I'd take miller on third line anyday. After some ahl and 2 WJC, he's ready for nhl. No need to still play on a crappy Whale team for the rest of the season.
Mercilessly, and thankfully, the New York Rangers do not agree with your WILDLY inaccurate position.

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01-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #44
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I agree with the 2nd part... I have no desire to rush Miller at all. A cup of coffee late in the year wouldn't be awful, but just let his game grow in the AHL...

As for the first part... I can only imagine that you grew up as a Ranger fan during the Gomez tenure and like the guy. He adds absolutely zero to this team. In his best day he was a playmaker... so you're putting him on a 3rd or 4th line with no one who can score? The PP? You want Richards running things... not a pass - no shot - player like Gomez. If I have to watch him fire a lazy wrister into a goalies chest ever again, then I'm skipping an entire year of Ranger hockey. I'd much rather watch Redden or even Drury come back. Bring back Nedved if you want... he tried out a few years ago, and I'd bet money that he could add more than Gomez.

With that said, I wouldn't be against 3rd line depth or a 3rd pairing d-man on a 1 year deal if the cap allows...
Hated Gomez when he came to the Rangers, and for most of his tenure here. Started liking him after he went to Montreal. I think the guy is an absolute gamer.

Of course you want Richie running PP1, but I'd put Gomez on PP2.

22 years old, so I was around here a bit before Gomez showed up

I'm excited towards the possibility of Gomez being bought-out by the Habs because I'd love to see what he's still got left in the tank on another team (just not the Devils )

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01-03-2013, 01:15 PM
  #45
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Hated Gomez when he came to the Rangers, and for most of his tenure here. Started liking him after he went to Montreal. I think the guy is an absolute gamer.

Of course you want Richie running PP1, but I'd put Gomez on PP2.

22 years old, so I was around here a bit before Gomez showed up

I'm excited towards the possibility of Gomez being bought-out by the Habs because I'd love to see what he's still got left in the tank on another team (just not the Devils )
Gomez's time with Montreal convinced you hes a real gamer? Im totally confused by that. The guy has seemingly cared less and less about the NHL every day thats gone by since he signed that stupid deal.

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01-03-2013, 01:18 PM
  #46
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Gomez's time with Montreal convinced you hes a real gamer? Im totally confused by that. The guy has seemingly cared less and less about the NHL every day thats gone by since he signed that stupid deal.
The games I watched, he was out there busting ass. Especially in the playoffs. Like I said I think Montreal was a tough go for him, especially with the contract (not his fault). It's not like the Habs were a top notch organization while he was there.

Again, IMHO, nothing wrong with bringing in a vet who has multiple rings, and tons of playoff experience to this team on a cheap veteran deal to play 3C and see some power play time.

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01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
We have 3 choices:

A.) Brian Boyle
B.) Brian Boyle
C.) Brian ******* Boyle

I find it hard to believe that Tampa will buy out their captain and face of the franchise right now. Besides, I can't imagine he'd come cheap.

And to the poster above, I don't want Gomez anywhere NEAR this team for as long as I live.
which is exactly why our 3rd line will be embarrasingly unproductive. I agree with those who think we should look for an upgrade.

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01-03-2013, 01:23 PM
  #48
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Apparently defense means nothing.

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01-03-2013, 01:23 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
To respond to two different comments in one post...

I've seen my fair-share of Gomez's games in Montreal, and I'm not convinced he's as bad as his numbers suggest. Injury riddled season last year clearly got to his head. I remember watching him in the playoffs for the Habs in 2011 and he was all over the ice.
Couple of things:

1) The issue with Gomez has never been flashes of good play it's been consistency.

2) I fail to see how Gomez even at his best makes for a good third line center.

3) I can't see Gomez being a Torts guy blocking shots, playing hard consistently, etc. You may believe he would play hard, but he's never shown a willingness to do that at any point in his career.

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01-03-2013, 01:25 PM
  #50
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which is exactly why our 3rd line will be embarrasingly unproductive. I agree with those who think we should look for an upgrade.
Well, it might be "unproductive" if you go by your unfair expectations of 3rd line offense, and your simpleton outlook that production can only be measured by offensive output.

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