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Drouin...1st overall pick?

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Old
01-03-2013, 11:44 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by omnicronx View Post
Against 1.73 pts/gm (with 10 more games played) ..

Mackinnon is 17, to continue to make that claim based on 22 games by Drouin just seems outrageous to me..

That may be your personal opinion, but far from consensus.. Especially where it counts (and that would not be on an HF board with wannabe scouts like yourself and I)
No s, Sherlock. Of course it is my opinion. I don't need to say that it is my opinion because forums like this are mainly comprised of opinions gathered by everyone.

What's your point? MacKinnon has been the most dominant of the two this year?

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01-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by omnicronx View Post
I just don't see how anyone can make that claim based on 22 games and a WJC..

He has been doing great, but you can hardly crown him as the 'most dominant 17 year old since Crosby'.

People also seem to forget that Drouin is 5 months older than Mackinnon..
At the World Juniors? Kane was more dominant that Drouin has been.
In the CHL? I would argue Tavares was more dominant.

Oops I meant to quote HockeyMind

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01-03-2013, 12:58 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
At the World Juniors? Kane was more dominant that Drouin has been.
In the CHL? I would argue Tavares was more dominant.

Oops I meant to quote HockeyMind
Tavares had 68 points in 31 games heading into the WJC at 17 leading the CHL in scoring.

Drouin doesn't have a case for most dominant 17 year old since Crosby.

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01-03-2013, 02:04 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Breakfast of Champs View Post
Tavares had 68 points in 31 games heading into the WJC at 17 leading the CHL in scoring.

Drouin doesn't have a case for most dominant 17 year old since Crosby.
Exactly my point

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01-03-2013, 04:08 PM
  #230
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I say number 5. Jones, Mackinnon, Barkov, Monahan.

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01-03-2013, 08:57 PM
  #231
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mackinnon hasnt played as much as drouin in the world juniors

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01-04-2013, 02:38 AM
  #232
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I'm sure every sports station and HF will make this who "darkhorse" thing play out for the draft, just like they did with Matt Duchene Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, but in the end, Mac and Jones will be going #1 and #2 just like how predictable it always is.

Every single year the #1 overall pick is OBVIOUS, but people try to make these arguments over why another could or should rise, fall, or whatever.

The #1 rated prospects always go #1...
Year - Player who was rated #1 - Player who went #1
2012 - Yakupov - Yakupov
2011 - RNH - RNH
2010 - Hall - Hall
2009 - Tavares - Tavares
2008 - Stamkos - Stamkos
2007 - Kane - Turris
2006 - Johnson - Johnson
2005 - Crosby - Crosby
2004 - Ovechkin - Ovechkin
2003 - Fleury - Fleury

The exception being 2007, when most people believed Turris was a "project" and that Chicago would take Kane because they already had Toews at center. This was a case of a team picking based on need, because the #1 ranked and #2 ranked guys were so close.

The same thing happened in 1990 with Owen Nolan. Mike Ricci was ranked #1 with Nolan being a hair behind him, but since Quebec already had a Center in Mats Sundin (1989), they drafted Nolan (RW).

Even in 2003 with Fleury... he was projected #1 by far, and Florida even traded down because they didn't want him. He still went #1 though.

Basically, the #1 overall pick has been very predictable for over 25 years, so it's pretty safe to say MacKinnon is going #1. If by any chance Edmonton got the #1 pick again, they would likely trade down to #2 and take Jones. Either way, definitely not Drouin.

IF Drouin was a hair behind Mac (Which he isn't), the only way he would go first would be if a team needed a winger more than a center. So unless the Penguins or Kings are picking 1st overall... It's not happening.

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01-04-2013, 02:53 AM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
I'm sure every sports station and HF will make this who "darkhorse" thing play out for the draft, just like they did with Matt Duchene Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, but in the end, Mac and Jones will be going #1 and #2 just like how predictable it always is.

Every single year the #1 overall pick is OBVIOUS, but people try to make these arguments over why another could or should rise, fall, or whatever.

The #1 rated prospects always go #1...
Year - Player who was rated #1 - Player who went #1
2012 - Yakupov - Yakupov
2011 - RNH - RNH
2010 - Hall - Hall
2009 - Tavares - Tavares
2008 - Stamkos - Stamkos
2007 - Kane - Turris
2006 - Johnson - Johnson
2005 - Crosby - Crosby
2004 - Ovechkin - Ovechkin
2003 - Fleury - Fleury

The exception being 2007, when most people believed Turris was a "project" and that Chicago would take Kane because they already had Toews at center. This was a case of a team picking based on need, because the #1 ranked and #2 ranked guys were so close.

The same thing happened in 1990 with Owen Nolan. Mike Ricci was ranked #1 with Nolan being a hair behind him, but since Quebec already had a Center in Mats Sundin (1989), they drafted Nolan (RW).

Even in 2003 with Fleury... he was projected #1 by far, and Florida even traded down because they didn't want him. He still went #1 though.

Basically, the #1 overall pick has been very predictable for over 25 years, so it's pretty safe to say MacKinnon is going #1. If by any chance Edmonton got the #1 pick again, they would likely trade down to #2 and take Jones. Either way, definitely not Drouin.

IF Drouin was a hair behind Mac (Which he isn't), the only way he would go first would be if a team needed a winger more than a center. So unless the Penguins or Kings are picking 1st overall... It's not happening.
The 2011 draft was close as well, RNH seemingly was obvious based on comments from the Oilers' staff. This year is pretty close as well, but I personally think MacKinnon and Jones will go 1 and 2 respectfully.

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01-04-2013, 02:57 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
I'm sure every sports station and HF will make this who "darkhorse" thing play out for the draft, just like they did with Matt Duchene Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, but in the end, Mac and Jones will be going #1 and #2 just like how predictable it always is.

Every single year the #1 overall pick is OBVIOUS, but people try to make these arguments over why another could or should rise, fall, or whatever.

The #1 rated prospects always go #1...
Year - Player who was rated #1 - Player who went #1
2012 - Yakupov - Yakupov
2011 - RNH - RNH
2010 - Hall - Hall
2009 - Tavares - Tavares
2008 - Stamkos - Stamkos
2007 - Kane - Turris
2006 - Johnson - Johnson
2005 - Crosby - Crosby
2004 - Ovechkin - Ovechkin
2003 - Fleury - Fleury

The exception being 2007, when most people believed Turris was a "project" and that Chicago would take Kane because they already had Toews at center. This was a case of a team picking based on need, because the #1 ranked and #2 ranked guys were so close.

The same thing happened in 1990 with Owen Nolan. Mike Ricci was ranked #1 with Nolan being a hair behind him, but since Quebec already had a Center in Mats Sundin (1989), they drafted Nolan (RW).

Even in 2003 with Fleury... he was projected #1 by far, and Florida even traded down because they didn't want him. He still went #1 though.

Basically, the #1 overall pick has been very predictable for over 25 years, so it's pretty safe to say MacKinnon is going #1. If by any chance Edmonton got the #1 pick again, they would likely trade down to #2 and take Jones. Either way, definitely not Drouin.

IF Drouin was a hair behind Mac (Which he isn't), the only way he would go first would be if a team needed a winger more than a center. So unless the Penguins or Kings are picking 1st overall... It's not happening.
Kane went 1st overall, Turris went 3rd... And IIRC it was Kane all the way.

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01-04-2013, 03:11 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by DoingItLeBlancWay View Post
The 2011 draft was close as well, RNH seemingly was obvious based on comments from the Oilers' staff. This year is pretty close as well, but I personally think MacKinnon and Jones will go 1 and 2 respectfully.
It was closer because of the media hype. On paper RNH was the best player in the draft. But given their needs, Larsson made sense. It was still RNH all along, but having a "debate" is fun. Huberdeau was never mentioned because Larsson was. They already had a "story". People try to discuss these things and basiacally find reasons to support a theory, but if you take a step back and actually look at the big picture.. it's usually very obvious what the outcome will be.

If you are political at all... the Obama vs McCain race is a good example. Obama was always winning by a landslide, but people like a "fight", so they make it seem like it's close, when it reality it never was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Kane went 1st overall, Turris went 3rd... And IIRC it was Kane all the way.
Turris was ranked first by most (by most I mean maybe 60/40) but most thought Chicago would take Kane regardless. So basically most had Turris ranked #1, but 90% of mock drafts had Kane going 1st.

As for a prediction. It's likely MacKinnon 1st overall and Jones #2, but there are a few teams that would take Jones over MacKinnon, so Jones could go first in a few scenarios so I can;t say 100% without there being standings.

Either way.. just like Landeskog, Larsson, and Duchene... Drouin is NOT going #1 unless Makinnon drops off heavily, and/or Drouin becomes a man possessed.

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01-04-2013, 05:36 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
Regardless of how skilled he is it would take real balls for a GM of a crappy club to take the guy who profiles as a winger (although I think he could play C) over the guy touted as a #1 D-man and a guy hyped for years as a #1 C. So since all GMs are too chicken **** to put their jobs on the line basically 0 chance.
2010 Oilers took Hall over Seguin when they were neck and neck.

Regardless Nate is better rounded. Defensively responsible, where Drouin is not. That's the biggest difference.

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01-04-2013, 05:39 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
I see Drouin as a goalscorer more than playmaker and passer. MSL is definitely the latter.
Drouin is a playmaker..

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01-04-2013, 07:24 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
I'm sure every sports station and HF will make this who "darkhorse" thing play out for the draft, just like they did with Matt Duchene Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, but in the end, Mac and Jones will be going #1 and #2 just like how predictable it always is.

Every single year the #1 overall pick is OBVIOUS, but people try to make these arguments over why another could or should rise, fall, or whatever.

The #1 rated prospects always go #1...
Year - Player who was rated #1 - Player who went #1
2012 - Yakupov - Yakupov
2011 - RNH - RNH
2010 - Hall - Hall
2009 - Tavares - Tavares
2008 - Stamkos - Stamkos
2007 - Kane - Turris
2006 - Johnson - Johnson
2005 - Crosby - Crosby
2004 - Ovechkin - Ovechkin
2003 - Fleury - Fleury

The exception being 2007, when most people believed Turris was a "project" and that Chicago would take Kane because they already had Toews at center. This was a case of a team picking based on need, because the #1 ranked and #2 ranked guys were so close.

The same thing happened in 1990 with Owen Nolan. Mike Ricci was ranked #1 with Nolan being a hair behind him, but since Quebec already had a Center in Mats Sundin (1989), they drafted Nolan (RW).

Even in 2003 with Fleury... he was projected #1 by far, and Florida even traded down because they didn't want him. He still went #1 though.

Basically, the #1 overall pick has been very predictable for over 25 years, so it's pretty safe to say MacKinnon is going #1. If by any chance Edmonton got the #1 pick again, they would likely trade down to #2 and take Jones. Either way, definitely not Drouin.

IF Drouin was a hair behind Mac (Which he isn't), the only way he would go first would be if a team needed a winger more than a center. So unless the Penguins or Kings are picking 1st overall... It's not happening.
The #1 is obvious a week before the draft. In Januray, that's not always the case. In 2011, Couturier was believed to be #1 for a good while, and RNH was just getting on the radar after missing the WJC cut. In 2006, Kessel was expected to contend for #1. Yakupov, Tavares, Stamkos, and Crosby were the only truly obvious #1 picks in January since the last lockout.

Things can still change at this point of the year, and it occurs often enough to legitimately discuss Drouin overtaking Mackinnon.

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01-13-2013, 11:46 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
The #1 is obvious a week before the draft. In Januray, that's not always the case. In 2011, Couturier was believed to be #1 for a good while, and RNH was just getting on the radar after missing the WJC cut. In 2006, Kessel was expected to contend for #1. Yakupov, Tavares, Stamkos, and Crosby were the only truly obvious #1 picks in January since the last lockout.

Things can still change at this point of the year, and it occurs often enough to legitimately discuss Drouin overtaking Mackinnon.
When Couturier was #1, it was a full year before the draft, and the beginning of the draft year. It's similar to Ekblad at the moment. I assume Ekblad will be #1 ranked for 2014 at the beginning of the 2013-2014 season as well.

At this time in the year, it's usually fairly obvious, but you do have a point about a week before the draft. At that point, it's very obvious, but I still believe in January, you have a very solid idea.

I still maintain Drouin has little to no chance at being #1 unless he goes absolute beast mode in the playoffs or something out of the ordinary like that.

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01-14-2013, 12:30 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
I'm sure every sports station and HF will make this who "darkhorse" thing play out for the draft, just like they did with Matt Duchene Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, but in the end, Mac and Jones will be going #1 and #2 just like how predictable it always is.

Every single year the #1 overall pick is OBVIOUS, but people try to make these arguments over why another could or should rise, fall, or whatever.

The #1 rated prospects always go #1...
Year - Player who was rated #1 - Player who went #1
2012 - Yakupov - Yakupov
2011 - RNH - RNH
2010 - Hall - Hall
2009 - Tavares - Tavares
2008 - Stamkos - Stamkos
2007 - Kane - Turris
2006 - Johnson - Johnson
2005 - Crosby - Crosby
2004 - Ovechkin - Ovechkin
2003 - Fleury - Fleury

The exception being 2007, when most people believed Turris was a "project" and that Chicago would take Kane because they already had Toews at center. This was a case of a team picking based on need, because the #1 ranked and #2 ranked guys were so close.

The same thing happened in 1990 with Owen Nolan. Mike Ricci was ranked #1 with Nolan being a hair behind him, but since Quebec already had a Center in Mats Sundin (1989), they drafted Nolan (RW).

Even in 2003 with Fleury... he was projected #1 by far, and Florida even traded down because they didn't want him. He still went #1 though.

Basically, the #1 overall pick has been very predictable for over 25 years, so it's pretty safe to say MacKinnon is going #1. If by any chance Edmonton got the #1 pick again, they would likely trade down to #2 and take Jones. Either way, definitely not Drouin.

IF Drouin was a hair behind Mac (Which he isn't), the only way he would go first would be if a team needed a winger more than a center. So unless the Penguins or Kings are picking 1st overall... It's not happening.
when you say "rated" - by what source? central scouting? ISS? ...and at what point? many of the various "rankings" change their projected #1 over the year.

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01-14-2013, 02:10 AM
  #241
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damn I would almost rather have the 2nd pick then the first. Just take whom ever is left over from Mack and Jones...

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01-14-2013, 04:37 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
I'm sure every sports station and HF will make this who "darkhorse" thing play out for the draft, just like they did with Matt Duchene Ryan Murray and Adam Larsson, but in the end, Mac and Jones will be going #1 and #2 just like how predictable it always is.

Every single year the #1 overall pick is OBVIOUS, but people try to make these arguments over why another could or should rise, fall, or whatever.

The #1 rated prospects always go #1...
Year - Player who was rated #1 - Player who went #1
2012 - Yakupov - Yakupov
2011 - RNH - RNH
2010 - Hall - Hall
2009 - Tavares - Tavares
2008 - Stamkos - Stamkos
2007 - Kane - Turris
2006 - Johnson - Johnson
2005 - Crosby - Crosby
2004 - Ovechkin - Ovechkin
2003 - Fleury - Fleury

The exception being 2007, when most people believed Turris was a "project" and that Chicago would take Kane because they already had Toews at center. This was a case of a team picking based on need, because the #1 ranked and #2 ranked guys were so close.

The same thing happened in 1990 with Owen Nolan. Mike Ricci was ranked #1 with Nolan being a hair behind him, but since Quebec already had a Center in Mats Sundin (1989), they drafted Nolan (RW).

Even in 2003 with Fleury... he was projected #1 by far, and Florida even traded down because they didn't want him. He still went #1 though.

Basically, the #1 overall pick has been very predictable for over 25 years, so it's pretty safe to say MacKinnon is going #1. If by any chance Edmonton got the #1 pick again, they would likely trade down to #2 and take Jones. Either way, definitely not Drouin.

IF Drouin was a hair behind Mac (Which he isn't), the only way he would go first would be if a team needed a winger more than a center. So unless the Penguins or Kings are picking 1st overall... It's not happening.
Seguin was rated #1 at the end of the year when Hall went #1.

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01-14-2013, 04:49 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by NHL Fanatic View Post
Seguin was rated #1 at the end of the year when Hall went #1.
No, he was not. Bob MacKenzie had a poll of NHL scouts and most had Hall ahead. I think it was something like 7/10 Hall, 2/10 Seguin, 1/10 undecided.

The Oilers had no reason to pick for need in the Hall draft. They had needs at every top-level roster position.

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01-14-2013, 04:50 PM
  #244
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I have Druoin behind Jones.

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01-14-2013, 04:52 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
No, he was not. Bob MacKenzie had a poll of NHL scouts and most had Hall ahead. I think it was something like 7/10 Hall, 2/10 Seguin, 1/10 undecided.

The Oilers had no reason to pick for need in the Hall draft. They had needs at every top-level roster position.
I'm referring to NHL central scouting.

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01-14-2013, 05:38 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
Turris was ranked first by most (by most I mean maybe 60/40) but most thought Chicago would take Kane regardless. So basically most had Turris ranked #1, but 90% of mock drafts had Kane going 1st.

As for a prediction. It's likely MacKinnon 1st overall and Jones #2, but there are a few teams that would take Jones over MacKinnon, so Jones could go first in a few scenarios so I can;t say 100% without there being standings.

Either way.. just like Landeskog, Larsson, and Duchene... Drouin is NOT going #1 unless Makinnon drops off heavily, and/or Drouin becomes a man possessed.
This is some serious revisionist history. Sounds like you are piping up Turris as a #1 overall type of talent more than anything.

As for this draft, I really think Seth Jones is head and shoulders above the rest of the class. Then there are 4 or 5 forwards led by Mackinnon IMO, but also including Drouin (along with Barkov, Lindholm, and possibly Monahan). MacKinnon is #2 for me mostly because he is just scratching the surface of his talent. Drouin is an amazing little hockey player though. Lindholm, Barkov, and Monahan I haven't seen as much of.

I also think the russian is in this grouping but he will slip due to the russian factor....


And while hindsight is 20/20, I do also think the Oilers have failed to get the top forward in the draft 3 years in a row. 3 years in a row they took the pure offensive guy and missed out on the all around stud.


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01-14-2013, 10:35 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
This is some serious revisionist history. Sounds like you are piping up Turris as a #1 overall type of talent more than anything.

As for this draft, I really think Seth Jones is head and shoulders above the rest of the class. Then there are 4 or 5 forwards led by Mackinnon IMO, but also including Drouin (along with Barkov, Lindholm, and possibly Monahan). MacKinnon is #2 for me mostly because he is just scratching the surface of his talent. Drouin is an amazing little hockey player though. Lindholm, Barkov, and Monahan I haven't seen as much of.

I also think the russian is in this grouping but he will slip due to the russian factor....


And while hindsight is 20/20, I do also think the Oilers have failed to get the top forward in the draft 3 years in a row. 3 years in a row they took the pure offensive guy and missed out on the all around stud.
Not at all - I'm not a huge Turris fan (yet - I might be if he proves me wrong). Not sure where you got that idea from. Yes, I'm a sens fan, but in now way have I even implied Turris would be a "#1 overall talent" in this thread, or ever for that matter.
The whole TUrris thing was to show that even with Rankings aside, the #1 overall guy is still obvious. Personally I think it's MacKinnon, but I do think Jones could go depending on the team that gets the 1st pick. Usually at this point we have an idea of who the bad teams are, but we don;t this year, so yeah, it's a little tougher to narrow it down. That said, I'd bet 30/30 teams currently have Mac or Jones as their #1 ranked spec.

As for the the Oilers... Hall/Seguin can be argued, and same with Yakupov to whoever since it's too early to tell, but to say RNH was the wrong pick would be a mistake.

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01-14-2013, 10:50 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I have Druoin behind Jones.
bingo and most likely mackinnon too.

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01-14-2013, 11:51 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
Not at all - I'm not a huge Turris fan (yet - I might be if he proves me wrong). Not sure where you got that idea from. Yes, I'm a sens fan, but in now way have I even implied Turris would be a "#1 overall talent" in this thread, or ever for that matter.
The whole TUrris thing was to show that even with Rankings aside, the #1 overall guy is still obvious. Personally I think it's MacKinnon, but I do think Jones could go depending on the team that gets the 1st pick. Usually at this point we have an idea of who the bad teams are, but we don;t this year, so yeah, it's a little tougher to narrow it down. That said, I'd bet 30/30 teams currently have Mac or Jones as their #1 ranked spec.

As for the the Oilers... Hall/Seguin can be argued, and same with Yakupov to whoever since it's too early to tell, but to say RNH was the wrong pick would be a mistake.
If I was wrong about the first part my apologies.


As for the second part, RNH is a beast, but if I had the choice between he and Landeskog....

I'm just not sold that RNH can A) stay healthy, and B) if his game can translate into the tighter checking playoffs...

Personally I like the great all around types, the Seguins, the Landeskogs, and the Galchenyuks.

Hall, RNH, and Yakupov are all tremendous talents, just think you can never have too many all around studs, while I think the guys they did take need to have a more carefully crafted roster around them as all three are pretty one dimensional offensive guys...

It's just an opinion, but we will see down the road though.

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01-18-2013, 07:46 PM
  #250
thegutter
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this kid can pass the puck..

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