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3rd line center if/when we get started

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Old
01-03-2013, 12:25 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yep, discussion over.

(If only. Experience tells me there will now be a long-winded debate centering on how Boyle makes people feel inside and no facts.)
You are correct. his point totals suck, his faceoff % is average and his defense (when not on the pk) is overrated. Your ball.

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01-03-2013, 12:28 PM
  #52
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We should clearly bring back Christensen to replace Boyle, because he sucks.

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01-03-2013, 12:30 PM
  #53
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Gomez:

Gain Zone. Skate Wide. Aim weak wrister at goalies belly-button.

Think of something witty to say during Trauts intermission report.

Scott Gomez, folks. He was once good so therefore he would be an upgrade over Boyle.

Gomez is hated by Habs fans. Yet someone on this forum thinks he's an absolute gamer based on his awful play up North? Wow . . . .

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01-03-2013, 12:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
You are correct. his point totals suck, his faceoff % is average and his defense (when not on the pk) is overrated. Your ball.
His point-total is pretty close to that league average for 3C's.

Boyle's faceoff % is actually above average.

His defense is not overrated.

Your Fall.

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01-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
So Boyle had 24 ESP in 82 NHL GP last season = 0.29 ESP/Gm

Miller has 10 ESP in 26 AHL GP this season = 0.38 ESP/Gm

And people are convinced Miller is a better option than Boyle why?
Because they have eyes statboy. There are many variables that determine how many points someone gets in a season or a tournament such as linemates, ice time, puck luck. Watching JT play he is a much better player than BB; much better. He may need more seasoning but the talent level is not even comparable.

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01-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #56
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You are correct. his point totals suck, his faceoff % is average and his defense (when not on the pk) is overrated. Your ball.
Im happy that I agree with people's opinions who've I come to respect on this board regarding Boyle.

And Im happy I disagree with opinions like this.

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01-03-2013, 12:34 PM
  #57
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Yeah, that was his one week of good play last year.
So you want to kill him for elevating his game in the playoffs? Interesting.

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He's a fourth line center, who happens to play on our third line and gets top 6 minutes; something wrong with that picture.
I'd love to hear how you would describe a third line center. You can knock Boyle for his offensive production (short sided when looking at a third line center) but there's a reason he's a third line center.

Look at the third line centers for the past four Cup-winning teams in the years those teams won the Cup.

Stoll (2011-2012): 6-15 = 21

Kelly (2010-2011): 14-14 = 28 (12-11 with OTT, 2-3 with Boston)

Madden (2009-2010): 10-12 = 23 Bolen (2009-2010) 6-10=16

Staal (2008-2009): 22-27 =49

Boyle (2011-2012): 11-15 = 26

Outside of Staal (who is hardly a true #3 center), Boyle's season last year matches fairly well with the other previous Cup-winning third line centers. Boyle's season in 10-11 is better than all of those (again, aside from Staal who is hardly a true third line center).

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01-03-2013, 12:35 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Because they have eyes statboy. There are many variables that determine how many points someone gets in a season or a tournament such as linemates, ice time, puck luck. Watching JT play he is a much better player than BB; much better. He may need more seasoning but the talent level is not even comparable.
I suppose quality of competition is not one of those variables you're considering, hey?

P.S. I don't find "statboy" the slightest bit offensive. No more than I would "factboy" or logicboy"

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01-03-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Because they have eyes statboy. There are many variables that determine how many points someone gets in a season or a tournament such as linemates, ice time, puck luck. Watching JT play he is a much better player than BB; much better. He may need more seasoning but the talent level is not even comparable.
Nobody's arguing that JT has higher upside than Boyle, and will most likely end up being a more productive player. As of right now, Boyle's the best option we have as our third line Center. And there are a number of teams that have much weaker options.

Reading comprehension. Derp.

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01-03-2013, 12:37 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Because they have eyes statboy. There are many variables that determine how many points someone gets in a season or a tournament such as linemates, ice time, puck luck. Watching JT play he is a much better player than BB; much better. He may need more seasoning but the talent level is not even comparable.
Nobody is disagreeing with you on who is the more talented player. The issue is that JT is not ready for the NHL, so he would probably not be as effective as Boyle, and you'd run the risk of severely hampering his development. We'd all love to have a better 3C than Boyle, but that doesn't change the fact that he's our only real option at this point, and beyond that, he's perfectly average for the role we need him to play.

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01-03-2013, 12:39 PM
  #61
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why does everyone have to piss on Boyle? They guy is a good defensive C and PKer. He doesnt use his size all the time but he is ginormous and although I want more consitency with offense its not like he didnt score goals 2 yrs ago.

Boyle is fine at 3rd line C. I would love Miller to take that spot and move Boyle to either wing or 4th line C but that's more likely next yr. Also if Hagelin or Kreider plays 3rd line LW more points are likely to come.

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01-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well, it might be "unproductive" if you go by your unfair expectations of 3rd line offense, and your simpleton outlook that production can only be measured by offensive output.
Did I say that? At ES he is overrated defensively. He has awful puck skills which leads to little puck possession which leads to having to defend constantly. Add that to the fact that he is easily knocked off his feet and you have one overrated defensive specialist. Now, (you following?) if you pile that onto his horrendous offensive instincts and hands you have an average, overpaid 4th line center who is effective on the pk and nothing else. And for those who question his ES ice time, they are spot on. Torts has a man crush similar to yours and that is a problem.


Last edited by hototogisu: 01-03-2013 at 02:14 PM. Reason: no personal attacks
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01-03-2013, 12:46 PM
  #63
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Nobody is disagreeing with you on who is the more talented player. The issue is that JT is not ready for the NHL, so he would probably not be as effective as Boyle, and you'd run the risk of severely hampering his development. We'd all love to have a better 3C than Boyle, but that doesn't change the fact that he's our only real option at this point, and beyond that, he's perfectly average for the role we need him to play.
This is where we disagree. I see him as below average in that role. His inability to handle the puck means he needs to play a pure defensive role and 3rd line centers need to be able to expose third D pairings from time to time. BB does not have that ability. Outside of a month and a half two years ago where everything went in he is devoid of offensive talents which is why he should be a 4th line player making much less money than he makes. But I agree he is very likely to be our 3C and we will need to make due because Torts clearly agrees with those who have more faith in BB than even you do.

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01-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #64
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Did I say that *******? At ES he is overrated defensively. He has awful puck skills which leads to little puck possession which leads to having to defend constantly. Add that to the fact that he is easily knocked off his feet and you have one overrated defensive specialist. Now, (you following?) if you pile that onto his horrendous offensive instincts and hands you have an average, overpaid 4th line center who is effective on the pk and nothing else. And for those who question his ES ice time, they are spot on. Torts has a man crush similar to yours and that is a problem.
I'll trust the coach with a Cup on his resume over the nonsense you're preaching. As well as my opinion as well.

Hell, find me a poster that just got into hockey and I'll have more faith in their attention to detail than yours.

Keep singing away though.

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01-03-2013, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
His point-total is pretty close to that league average for 3C's.

Boyle's faceoff % is actually above average.

His defense is not overrated.

Your Fall.
Not true. Faceoff slightly above if anything which should be much better for a defensive specialist and his defense is overrated. Still standing.

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01-03-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
why does everyone have to piss on Boyle? They guy is a good defensive C and PKer. He doesnt use his size all the time but he is ginormous and although I want more consitency with offense its not like he didnt score goals 2 yrs ago.

Boyle is fine at 3rd line C. I would love Miller to take that spot and move Boyle to either wing or 4th line C but that's more likely next yr. Also if Hagelin or Kreider plays 3rd line LW more points are likely to come.
We are actually not pissing on BB. Everyone likes him but would like to see him used differently. So, in reality the beef is with Torts.

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01-03-2013, 12:51 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im happy that I agree with people's opinions who've I come to respect on this board regarding Boyle.

And Im happy I disagree with opinions like this.
Glad you are happy. How does that add to the discourse?

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01-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #68
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Still standing.
You're standing 6 feet under, then.

If the whole world is calling you crazy, it means you're crazy.

Keeping making pretend you think you know everything though. That attitute will get you real far in life.

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01-03-2013, 12:54 PM
  #69
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lol Boyle haters.

Starts 70% of his shifts in his own end, over 50% on the draw, elite PKer, big size and puts up great production for a 3rd line center with garbage linemates.

But yeah, we should buy him out.

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01-03-2013, 12:54 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'll trust the coach with a Cup on his resume over the nonsense you're preaching. As well as my opinion as well.

Hell, find me a poster that just got into hockey and I'll have more faith in their attention to detail than yours.

Keep singing away though.
That's fine. Although there are many who disagree with the cup winning coach over many things. So to use that as a point of strength is silly. Now regarding your opinions, I'll let them stand on their own.

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01-03-2013, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You're standing 6 feet under, then.

If the whole world is calling you crazy, it means you're crazy.

Keeping making pretend you think you know everything though. That attitute will get you real far in life.
The whole world is not saying anything. Thanks for the life advice. Don't assume I'm a kid cause I'm not. I have opinions; that's all. If you and others want to disagree, that's ok. There are many who agree with my assessment of BB and many are doing very well in life.

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01-03-2013, 01:05 PM
  #72
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Apparently defense means nothing.
Points, bro. Points.

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01-03-2013, 01:07 PM
  #73
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That's fine. Although there are many who disagree with the cup winning coach over many things. So to use that as a point of strength is silly. Now regarding your opinions, I'll let them stand on their own.
You feel JT Millers a better option as our 3C than Boyle for this upcoming season. I feel this pubescent logic that's corrupted kids minds these days is complete insanity. You guys think you can throw a kid on the ice and have him learn the game at the NHL level.

We've taken that approach before and have been burned by it.

JT will play when he's ready. Not when you want him to because you think Boyle's an awful 3C.

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01-03-2013, 01:09 PM
  #74
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What if I told you Brian Boyle put up more points than elite 3rd line center Jarret Stoll

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01-03-2013, 01:10 PM
  #75
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What if I told you Brian Boyle put up more points than elite 3rd line center Jarret Stoll
It doesn't matter. Watch the games. Use your eyes. Brian Boyle has no balance. Stoll is way more skilled. Watch them.

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