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Old
01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #851
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Like I said before 2 trades between florida toronto and vancouver. theodore for ashton
No interest in giving up a prospect like Ashton for a goaltender like Jose Theodore. I'd rather run with James Reimer / Ben Scrivens, to be honest.

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01-03-2013, 01:24 PM
  #852
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I have no idea what he was talking about, re: Florida resigning amensty buy-out. Anyway....

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01-03-2013, 01:25 PM
  #853
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No interest in giving up a prospect like Ashton for a goaltender like Jose Theodore. I'd rather run with James Reimer / Ben Scrivens, to be honest.
Agreed.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:25 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Care to explain how? Unless I missed something, the roster that follows is absolutely dreadful for a supposedly elite team.

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) / Dale Weise ($0.615m)
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $60,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,362,500; BONUSES: $185,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $822,500
--------------

No team will pay dividends for Luongo when they know our alternate is basically screwing ourselves.


You can "trade" Luongo. It wouldn't be the same as "dumping" Luongo. And he will be traded, most likely by the deadline.


With him gone, Ballard soon following, it should be enough to keep the majority of the roster intact. (Raymond and Malhotra were/are walking regardless IMO)

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:26 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
no salary roll-back?
thats the only way i could see it working...
Nope, no roll backs. This is why I see it around $65-67M. The league seriously be missing what we fans are already pointing out. Then again...

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01-03-2013, 01:27 PM
  #856
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Question: Why can't the cap hit roll back with the salary staying the same for any contracts from the last CBA?

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01-03-2013, 01:29 PM
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You can "trade" Luongo. It wouldn't be the same as "dumping" Luongo. And he will be traded, most likely by the deadline.


With him gone, Ballard soon following, it should be enough to keep the majority of the roster intact. (Raymond and Malhotra were/are walking regardless IMO)
Like I said, no team will pay any sort of premium when they know our alternate is bleak by comparison. At best, we could get Kadri and a third, if we took Komisarek to boot. Even that could be argued down because of the situation.

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01-03-2013, 01:30 PM
  #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Care to explain how? Unless I missed something, the roster that follows is absolutely dreadful for a supposedly elite team.

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) / Dale Weise ($0.615m)
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $60,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,362,500; BONUSES: $185,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $822,500
--------------

No team will pay dividends for Luongo when they know our alternate is basically screwing ourselves.
Which is why I've suggested that if this CBA goes through, there might just be greater value in Cap Management, than there is in actual player value as an asset.

Until we know the CBA, it is impossible to know exactly the value of a player or deal. Suddenly entry level players, or those on good deals become even more valuable, while those larger dollar long-term commitments less so.

...and no, Luongo would never be bought out. Surely someone, including Burke would pay a 4th rounder for him... and Vancouver would prefer a 4th round in return, instead of buying him out. Of course, Vancouver will get more than that in return, it is just an example. I would guess looking at that lineup, any two of Franson, Bozak and Kadri would get the deal done under this proposed CBA.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:32 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
No interest in giving up a prospect like Ashton for a goaltender like Jose Theodore. I'd rather run with James Reimer / Ben Scrivens, to be honest.
Obviously allowing Luongo to go back to Florida is what's important here. It would be very selfish of Theodore or the Leafs to stand in his way.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:35 PM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Like I said, no team will pay any sort of premium when they know our alternate is bleak by comparison. At best, we could get Kadri and a third, if we took Komisarek to boot. Even that could be argued down because of the situation.


Sure, if you treat every other team as a single entity. Believe it or not, every team isn't thinking about the best interests of their competition. The field is still the field.


If you exhaust all options, across every team, then you dump him. But then need across every team is not the same. Who knows? Perhaps team X can't wait for you to eventually dump Luongo? Maybe they need him right now. Or perhaps they know another team is interested so they won't wait for all teams to pass and for VAN to be stuck in a cap situation.


The asset is still the asset. The field is still the field. Only now, the rules at the end of the game (next offseason), have changed. A lot of time between now and then...

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Obviously allowing Luongo to go back to Florida is what's important here. It would be very selfish of Theodore or the Leafs to stand in his way.
then we need to be selfish. I don't care what the panthers want I care about making Toronto better

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01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You can "trade" Luongo. It wouldn't be the same as "dumping" Luongo. And he will be traded, most likely by the deadline.


With him gone, Ballard soon following, it should be enough to keep the majority of the roster intact. (Raymond and Malhotra were/are walking regardless IMO)
Ouch: Oreskovich for Grabner, Bernier and a 1st.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #863
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Luongo is worthless if teams get 2 buyouts. He ends up with Florida 100%.

End the rumors and the talk.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:37 PM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Like I said, no team will pay any sort of premium when they know our alternate is bleak by comparison. At best, we could get Kadri and a third, if we took Komisarek to boot. Even that could be argued down because of the situation.
I agree, although I really get the feeling that it's going to be Bozak and Kadri for Luongo as reported.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:39 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Which is why I've suggested that if this CBA goes through, there might just be greater value in Cap Management, than there is in actual player value as an asset.

Until we know the CBA, it is impossible to know exactly the value of a player or deal. Suddenly entry level players, or those on good deals become even more valuable, while those larger dollar long-term commitments less so.

...and no, Luongo would never be bought out. Surely someone, including Burke would pay a 4th rounder for him... and Vancouver would prefer a 4th round in return, instead of buying him out. Of course, Vancouver will get more than that in return, it is just an example. I would guess looking at that lineup, any two of Franson, Bozak and Kadri would get the deal done under this proposed CBA.
Nah. All I hear is if Burke doesn't pay the most and a premium, Gillis will buyout Luongo or put him on waivers just for principle rather then taking a "soft" deal. Surely they can't be wrong

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01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Ouch: Oreskovich for Grabner, Bernier and a 1st.
Wut? Florida didn't even keep Grabner. If we're using your logic, it would be Ballard + Oreskovich (since we used both players on our roster) for Bernier and a 1st.
And at the time, we didn't know Hamhuis was going to sign here. I still think Gillis made the right call on that trade (also keep in mind this was right after Raymond's 25 goal season).

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01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
  #867
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I have no idea what he was talking about, re: Florida resigning amensty buy-out. Anyway....
I had said previously that Florida sends a cap dump to Vancouver and Vancouver uses the amnesty clause on him and then he goes back to Florida. Kind of how like in the nba players get traded to a team and then that team buys them out and they wait 2 weeks so they can go back to their original team for a dime.

Or in hockey like how teams and players have agreements to be deadline rentals and as UFAs the coming offseason go back to their original teams.

Canucks had this agreement with Geoff sanderson and the blue jackets when they traded a pick or 2 for him and then let him leave in the offseason so he could go back to Columbus

Doug weight and the hurricanes/blues had this agreement as well I believe when they acquired him at the deadline and the coming off season he signed with the blues

Also where is this kings random I'm asking for? Ellerby is a #6 matthias is a 4th line center on ur own team one of those guys is hardly a premium on top of one blue chip prospect of either petrovic or bjustad and a very late 1st. U guys picked 22nd over this past year no? With the exact same team and much better goaltending I don't see how ur team can't have the same success at worst?


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Old
01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
  #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I agree, although I really get the feeling that it's going to be Bozak and Kadri for Luongo as reported.
That is actually not too bad if the cap fell off a cliff. I'm still not convinced they will go that low though.

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01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
  #869
marty111
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Originally Posted by 81Leafs50 View Post
Luongo is worthless if teams get 2 buyouts. He ends up with Florida 100%.

End the rumors and the talk.
Can you elaborate? I don't think he is worthless even if 2 buyouts are allowed.

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01-03-2013, 01:43 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
I had said previously that Florida sends a cap dump to Vancouver and Vancouver uses the amnesty clause on him and then he goes back to Florida.
So Florida pays a premium to trade Upshall - for example - so Vancouver can buy him out and then Florida resigns him - unlikely due to other teams getting priority - to save 1-2M a year?

Vancouver would only pay the difference on the contract.

Makes more sense for Florida just to buyout their own guy and take a soft deal for Lu.

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01-03-2013, 01:46 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
That is actually not too bad if the cap fell off a cliff. I'm still not convinced they will go that low though.
I hope thats the deal so you know how bad bozak actually is

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01-03-2013, 01:49 PM
  #872
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I agree, although I really get the feeling that it's going to be Bozak and Kadri for Luongo as reported.
Im sure you are right but id rather have franson than bozak imo, would make dropping ballard easier.

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01-03-2013, 01:50 PM
  #873
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Im sure you are right but id rather have franson than bozak imo, would make dropping ballard easier.
As a Leaf fan, I prefer the deal to be Franson and Bozak. I would do that in a second.

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01-03-2013, 01:51 PM
  #874
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No one here is asking the leafs to pay the price Gillis wanted at the draft. You are arguing against yourself. You said I'm missing the point, but you are arguing a point no one has made.


So now then, is it safe to say that we haven't hit Burke's top limit yet? Because if we had, he would not have increased his offer when EDM jumped on board. He's still trying to "win" negotiations here. He didn't offer his top price at his two draft proposals, the evidence is the latest increase, so Gillis was right to wait him out? Correct? People have been saying Gillis is asking for the moon, but if these rumours indicate anything, it's that his price didn't deter Burke, and in fact Burke has moved even further towards Gillis. As high as Gillis's initial offer was, he was justified in waiting Burke out, and still waiting him out.



Now that FLA can dump a contract to VAN, or two, does this demand a further indirect
increase from Burke?
In my opinion...no. Burke doesn't have a cap dump to offer that would increase the value of other pieces. We need Komi, and Connolly/Lombardi are done in 6 months.

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01-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #875
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In my opinion...no. Burke doesn't have a cap dump to offer that would increase the value of other pieces. We need Komi, and Connolly/Lombardi are done in 6 months.
we need komi? sense when? i've seen him do nothing but suck since day one

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