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Who should have won the Conn Smythe in 2010?

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01-03-2013, 06:54 AM
  #1
FakeKidPoker*
 
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Who should have won the Conn Smythe in 2010?

Been thinking about this for a few hours.

I'm a Hawk fan so I'm just glad they got the cup.. but I really think the voters did make a mistake giving it to Toews.

You look at his jersey and see that he is Captain then you see yes, he did lead the Hawks in scoring in the playoffs and I guess it is pretty easy to give it to him just looking at that...also paired with "OMG OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL" just a few months earlier..was it too good of a story to pass up?

He did have a very good playoffs that peaked when he went into "beast mode" against the Canucks in round 2... but after that his game did fall off and he went cold..scoring just 1 goal in his final 11 games.

I do feel it should have gone to either two other men either Duncan Keith or Patrick Kane.

Kane had really no chance of getting it, no matter he did on the ice due to the events of last Summer.. no way were voters giving him one of the most important trophies after that.

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01-03-2013, 08:35 AM
  #2
TheDevilMadeMe
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I liked both Keith and Kane better than Toews, too.

Would have voted for Keith.

Keep in mind though that they vote on the Smythe in between periods, so voting was done before the OT where Kane scored the clinching goal.

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01-03-2013, 11:24 AM
  #3
Hawkey Town 18
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As someone who watched every single minute the Hawks played that post-season I would have voted for Duncan Keith.

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01-03-2013, 12:32 PM
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seventieslord
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No way Kane wins it with 28 points and a -2. Toews was better.

I'd have gone with Pronger 1st, Keith 2nd, Toews 3rd.

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01-03-2013, 12:41 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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it was seabrook and toews that took down the canucks that year, but keith and kane pulled the cart the rest of the way. i would have voted for keith myself.

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01-03-2013, 12:47 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
No way Kane wins it with 28 points and a -2. Toews was better.

I'd have gone with Pronger 1st, Keith 2nd, Toews 3rd.
That's close enough to what I would say to quote it. I can see Keith being ahead of Pronger for the whole "winning" thing. But really, Keith had Seabrook (the latter is superior defensively, though Keith had an anomalistically good season in 2010 from start to finish, I imagine it would be like if Randy Carlyle was on an '81 Cup finalist - very good player just goes hog wild out of nowhere kind of deal)...anyway, Keith had Seabrook, plus an extra pairing to work with on his own team and only had to drag a low-level NHL goalie along for the ride.

Pronger had Carle with him (an inferior defensive player, who was getting passed around frequently due to his defensive work + salary), didn't have a third pairing to work with (I think it was Parent and Krajicek who went onto the ice once in a game and it was just long enough to get the puck out of their net and that was the end of their night and NHL careers really) and had to drag a minor league caliber goaltender along for the ride...

Pronger had to pull more weight behind the red line certainly, whatever that's worth.

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01-03-2013, 12:54 PM
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kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
No way Kane wins it with 28 points and a -2. Toews was better.

I'd have gone with Pronger 1st, Keith 2nd, Toews 3rd.
I'd also give it to Pronger.

I think Pronger actually had it until the Hawks' speed exposed his lack thereof in the last few games of the series.

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01-03-2013, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
it was seabrook and toews that took down the canucks that year, but keith and kane pulled the cart the rest of the way. i would have voted for keith myself.
didn't seabrook miss a bunch of games against the Canucks?

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01-03-2013, 01:13 PM
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Caroline Says ll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
No way Kane wins it with 28 points and a -2. Toews was better.

I'd have gone with Pronger 1st, Keith 2nd, Toews 3rd.
I would have voted for Keith or Kane, and in regards to plus/minus, Toews was a -1, so it seems they did not care for it when chosen.

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01-03-2013, 01:33 PM
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kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
it was seabrook and toews that took down the canucks that year, but keith and kane pulled the cart the rest of the way. i would have voted for keith myself.
I'd give a lot of credit to Dave Bolland for neutralizing the Canucks.

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01-03-2013, 01:34 PM
  #11
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Chris Pronger.

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01-03-2013, 01:53 PM
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I'd have given it to Pronger with Keith as my runner up.

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01-03-2013, 01:59 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
That's close enough to what I would say to quote it. I can see Keith being ahead of Pronger for the whole "winning" thing. But really, Keith had Seabrook (the latter is superior defensively, though Keith had an anomalistically good season in 2010 from start to finish, I imagine it would be like if Randy Carlyle was on an '81 Cup finalist - very good player just goes hog wild out of nowhere kind of deal)...anyway, Keith had Seabrook, plus an extra pairing to work with on his own team and only had to drag a low-level NHL goalie along for the ride.

Pronger had Carle with him (an inferior defensive player, who was getting passed around frequently due to his defensive work + salary), didn't have a third pairing to work with (I think it was Parent and Krajicek who went onto the ice once in a game and it was just long enough to get the puck out of their net and that was the end of their night and NHL careers really) and had to drag a minor league caliber goaltender along for the ride...

Pronger had to pull more weight behind the red line certainly, whatever that's worth.
Seabrook definitely was better defensively than Carle, but during 2010 Seabrook was not better defensively than Keith. He may have been the last couple years, but he was not back in 2010. This doesn't have anything to do with the thread, but IMO I still don't know for sure if Seabrook is better defensively than Keith...if their responsibilities and minutes where switched I wouldn't be surprised if Keith started looking better, no way to really tell without that happening. To be clear...Seabrook has been playing better defense than Keith the past 2 years, but it's difficult to know how much is due to Keith logging more minutes and having more offensive responsibilities.

Another thing to factor in from the 2010 playoffs is the caliber of offenses Keith and Pronger were facing...Through the first 3 rounds Keith went up against the 2nd, 4th, and 18th best offenses in the regular season. Pronger faced the 19th, 25th, and 30th. That has to make up for A LOT of the Seabrook/Carle difference.

Offensively, Keith and Pronger were close. Pronger had 18pts in 23 games, and Keith had 17pts in 22 games The Hawks scored 2 more total goals than the Flyers that playoff year, so team scoring isn't really a factor. EDIT: For what it's worth Keith had 2 more ESPts than Pronger, but averaged about a min more ES ice tme per game.

I'm just not seeing enough of an overall difference here to award the Smythe to the guy whose team finished runner-up.


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01-03-2013, 02:02 PM
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Mike Farkas
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I would agree, though I didn't make it quite clear, that Keith was better in every facet than Seabrook in 2010. Keith's 2010 season was just lights out. Keith and Pronger are very close in terms of CS voting from that playoffs, so I basically agree with your post.

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01-03-2013, 02:31 PM
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seventieslord
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The Chicago coaching staff doesn't seem to think Keith is better defensively. They have consistently given Seabrook (not Keith) among the toughest range of defensive assignments in the NHL over the last 5 seasons.

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01-03-2013, 03:02 PM
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The Chicago coaching staff doesn't seem to think Keith is better defensively. They have consistently given Seabrook (not Keith) among the toughest range of defensive assignments in the NHL over the last 5 seasons.
How big is the gap? If the gap is relatively small, it can be entirely explained by the fact that Keith is much better offensively, and there are only so many minutes to go around.

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01-03-2013, 03:16 PM
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The Chicago coaching staff doesn't seem to think Keith is better defensively. They have consistently given Seabrook (not Keith) among the toughest range of defensive assignments in the NHL over the last 5 seasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How big is the gap? If the gap is relatively small, it can be entirely explained by the fact that Keith is much better offensively, and there are only so many minutes to go around.

What does it matter?

We're talking about the 2010 playoffs not the 2008-2012 seasons.

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01-03-2013, 03:51 PM
  #18
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The Chicago coaching staff doesn't seem to think Keith is better defensively. They have consistently given Seabrook (not Keith) among the toughest range of defensive assignments in the NHL over the last 5 seasons.
Not sure how big the differences are, but some from the last couple seasons are due to the Hawks playing Keith alongside Nick Leddy in a mentor type of role. This didn't happen for an entire season or anything, but there were stretches (I wanna say it happened mostly at the end of the '10-'11 season and the beginning of last season) where they were paired together in hopes that Leddy would learn from Keith.

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01-03-2013, 05:01 PM
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seventieslord
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What does it matter?

We're talking about the 2010 playoffs not the 2008-2012 seasons.
HT18 was not just talking about the 2010 playoffs.

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01-03-2013, 06:09 PM
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Pronger or Kieth deserved it.

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01-03-2013, 07:51 PM
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Toews and I dont think anyone got snubbed. Obviously there is alot of candidates in a cup win but Toews deserved it. In pure importance to the Hawks, I'll give a nod to Big Buff as his physical presence was vital for the team. Keith was a big part but didnt really stand out compared to Seabrook imo.

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01-03-2013, 08:06 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Byfuglien was entirely useless except for one series. It's just that the TV cameras couldn't stop looking at him for some reason (let's see, that's 10 pounds per view at 100 views...), but he was largely ineffective as far as hockey goes.

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01-03-2013, 08:22 PM
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Byfuglien was entirely useless except for one series. It's just that the TV cameras couldn't stop looking at him for some reason (let's see, that's 10 pounds per view at 100 views...), but he was largely ineffective as far as hockey goes.

Strongly disagree there.

He scored a goal in every single game of the San Jose series and I believe 3 game winners.

He wasn't good during the start of the Philly series but rebounded there too.

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01-03-2013, 08:46 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Yeah, the Sharks series he was fine - playing against physically slow players, of course. But otherwise, the pace was too quick for him and I don't mean as a result of his skating. He's a mentally slow player and very poor in transition if he can't just lug the puck straight through it without asking for directions. His lack of hockey sense was exposed throughout the playoffs as he just wasn't sure what to do. I'm not sure what the stat sheet says or whatever, but he wasn't one of the five best Blackhawks in the playoffs certainly...I remember when some of the clueless Joe Jackson's (Eddie Olczyk, maybe the king of them all) started talking about the anticipated Byfuglien vs. Pronger matchup...that provided a wealth of giggles for me, I remember saying that if Pronger was somehow pre-occupied with wasting his time with a player like Byfuglien, the series would be over in three games...besides one big hit by Byfuglien that battle simply didn't materialize to any degree...Pronger's too smart to get bogged down with such nincompoopery, he had way bigger fish to fry and a goalie to babysit...

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01-03-2013, 09:00 PM
  #25
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Toews was a terrible pick. Would have gone with Keith.

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