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3rd line center if/when we get started

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:16 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
What if I told you Brian Boyle put up more points than elite 3rd line center Jarret Stoll
You have Miller in your avatar instead of Boyle, therefore, Miller's superior to Boyle.

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01-03-2013, 02:30 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
We are actually not pissing on BB. Everyone likes him but would like to see him used differently. So, in reality the beef is with Torts.
It should not be based on salary but at 1.7 million the guy should be playing 3rd line C or Wing. That's alot for a 4th line guy which is where most want to see him.

Its not like Halpern is going to take over 3rd line C at this point in his career but is going to be their faceoff guy and Pker. With that the top 4 Cs are spoken for on this team this yr, Richards, Stepan, Boyle, Halpern......if Miller steals a job and moves Boyle to 3rd line Wing then cool. Also Lindberg may make a push for a job next yr.

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01-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #78
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Remember guys, unless your 3rd line center kills penalties, scores 30 goals, wins 70% of faceoffs, and never falls down, he should be on the 4th line

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01-03-2013, 02:51 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
Remember guys, unless your 3rd line center kills penalties, scores 30 goals, wins 70% of faceoffs, and never falls down, he should be on the 4th line in the AHL
Agreed. Brad Richards is your typical third liner on a true cup-contender.

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01-03-2013, 02:53 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Agreed. Brad Richards is your typical third liner on a true cup-contender.
Lucic - Richards - Callahan

^ Prototypical third line if you want to be a cup contender

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01-03-2013, 02:55 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Agreed. Brad Richards is your typical third liner on a true cup-contender.
Heck, even Richards never scored 30 goals or won 70% of draws

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01-03-2013, 02:58 PM
  #82
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Heck, even Richards never scored 30 goals or won 70% of draws
He's only 6'1", he shouldn't be expected to.

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01-03-2013, 02:58 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Lucic - Richards - Callahan

^ Prototypical third line if you want to be a cup contender
I recall a poster on the old rangers bb who used to say Callahan's ceiling was a 4th line energy player..

You're clearly overrating Callahan.

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01-03-2013, 03:00 PM
  #84
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I'm not a huge fan of Boyle as our 3rd line C, but if pretty much accepted it since the Nash trade

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01-03-2013, 03:01 PM
  #85
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He's only 6'1", he shouldn't be expected to.
He's still filling out, so there's still room for improvement.

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01-03-2013, 03:01 PM
  #86
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I started this thread and just read through all the responses and have not seen anyone give a good reason why Lecavalier for a year does not make sense:

1. He has almost an $8m cap hit through 2020 so HE WILL be an amnesty buyout. He is more of a no brainer than Redden
2. The fact he'll be getting all(most) of that money anyway makes it unlikely that he will be demanding a huge contract (he might want multiple years which would be a problem)
3. With Torts and Richards will have familiarity
4. Miller is not ready
5. Boyle is not good enough and we are one injury away from him being a 2nd line center
6. Vinny has scored 103 points in 129 games the last two years (compare that to 2nd and 3rd line cneters around the league)
7. he is only 32 years old

I am making huge assumption that he will work on a short term inexpensive deal based on all of the above and the Chance to win a Cup. If that is true, he is bretter than any option set forth in 4+ pages thus far IMO.

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01-03-2013, 03:15 PM
  #87
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My only problem with Boyle as our third line center is he is poor at distributing the puck and I think Kreider has shown he is much more effective if he can play with someone who can get him the puck when he turns his jets on.

Boyle is a solid third line center otherwise.

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01-03-2013, 03:16 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
I started this thread and just read through all the responses and have not seen anyone give a good reason why Lecavalier for a year does not make sense:

1. He has almost an $8m cap hit through 2020 so HE WILL be an amnesty buyout. He is more of a no brainer than Redden
2. The fact he'll be getting all(most) of that money anyway makes it unlikely that he will be demanding a huge contract (he might want multiple years which would be a problem)
3. With Torts and Richards will have familiarity
4. Miller is not ready
5. Boyle is not good enough and we are one injury away from him being a 2nd line center
6. Vinny has scored 103 points in 129 games the last two years (compare that to 2nd and 3rd line cneters around the league)
7. he is only 32 years old

I am making huge assumption that he will work on a short term inexpensive deal based on all of the above and the Chance to win a Cup. If that is true, he is bretter than any option set forth in 4+ pages thus far IMO.
If he will take a one year deal I am so hella game.

Really doubt he will though.

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01-03-2013, 03:18 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
I started this thread and just read through all the responses and have not seen anyone give a good reason why Lecavalier for a year does not make sense:
I haven't seen anyone give a good reasy why we should attempt to bring Vinny in, so believe me, the feelings mutual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
1. He has almost an $8m cap hit through 2020 so HE WILL be an amnesty buyout. He is more of a no brainer than Redden
We're trying to shed salary. Not add salary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
2. The fact he'll be getting all(most) of that money anyway makes it unlikely that he will be demanding a huge contract (he might want multiple years which would be a problem)
Vinny's going to do us a favor and sign for nothing. Nice guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
3. With Torts and Richards will have familiarity
Familiarity? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
4. Miller is not ready
Nope. No he's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
5. Boyle is not good enough and we are one injury away from him being a 2nd line center
And if our goalie gets injured.. If Richards gets injured.. If Girardi gets injured..

And Boyle is good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
6. Vinny has scored 103 points in 129 games the last two years (compare that to 2nd and 3rd line cneters around the league)
Which is why a team is probably going to offer Vinny more than we can afford.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
7. he is only 32 years old
He plays like he's 40.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
I am making huge assumption that he will work on a short term inexpensive deal based on all of the above and the Chance to win a Cup. If that is true, he is bretter than any option set forth in 4+ pages thus far IMO.
You want Vinny, a Center who isn't anything special defensively, especially when you consider he's never been the same since his injury and is an offensive forward, for our 3C?

It's a dumb idea. Too expensive, and not an upgrade over Boyle defensively. As far as depth goes, we're in a situation where we're going to have to shed salary. And you're expecting Vinny to frolick over here and play for a reduced salary when we don't have the funds necessary to ice our current line-up which still doesn't include Del Zotto.

Again, still waiting for a good explanation why we should pursuit Vinny..

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01-03-2013, 03:19 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
I started this thread and just read through all the responses and have not seen anyone give a good reason why Lecavalier for a year does not make sense:

1. He has almost an $8m cap hit through 2020 so HE WILL be an amnesty buyout. He is more of a no brainer than Redden
2. The fact he'll be getting all(most) of that money anyway makes it unlikely that he will be demanding a huge contract (he might want multiple years which would be a problem)
3. With Torts and Richards will have familiarity
4. Miller is not ready
5. Boyle is not good enough and we are one injury away from him being a 2nd line center
6. Vinny has scored 103 points in 129 games the last two years (compare that to 2nd and 3rd line cneters around the league)
7. he is only 32 years old

I am making huge assumption that he will work on a short term inexpensive deal based on all of the above and the Chance to win a Cup. If that is true, he is bretter than any option set forth in 4+ pages thus far IMO.
Fine
Buyout Wade
One year for Vinny @ 6M prorated
I am in...

Nash - Richards - Cally
Kreider - Stepan - Gaborik
Hagelin (if healthy) - Vinny - Pyatt
Rupp - Boyle - Asham


Haley, Halpern as spares

FINE!
If the cap is at $70,2M and one compliance buyout (then used on Redden) would be allowed before THIS SEASON (not saying it will - but IF) we would have plenty of space for MDZ and Vinny L on a one year deal. Not saying that is likely or will be the scenario - but IF that happens you can be sure Glen will look seriously into it...


Last edited by BBKers: 01-03-2013 at 03:28 PM.
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01-03-2013, 03:22 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
I started this thread and just read through all the responses and have not seen anyone give a good reason why Lecavalier for a year does not make sense:

1. He has almost an $8m cap hit through 2020 so HE WILL be an amnesty buyout. He is more of a no brainer than Redden
2. The fact he'll be getting all(most) of that money anyway makes it unlikely that he will be demanding a huge contract (he might want multiple years which would be a problem)
3. With Torts and Richards will have familiarity
4. Miller is not ready
5. Boyle is not good enough and we are one injury away from him being a 2nd line center
6. Vinny has scored 103 points in 129 games the last two years (compare that to 2nd and 3rd line cneters around the league)
7. he is only 32 years old

I am making huge assumption that he will work on a short term inexpensive deal based on all of the above and the Chance to win a Cup. If that is true, he is bretter than any option set forth in 4+ pages thus far IMO.
I don't think that's an assumption that would prove to be accurate.

Look, I think pretty much anyone would take Lecavalier on a one year, $2M deal or something like that. It just seems extremely unlikely that he'd take that.

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01-03-2013, 03:23 PM
  #92
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If Lecavalier gets bought out and wants to come here for 1 year/1 million then sure I'd take him.
Don't see that ever happening. Even if he is bought out someone would be able to offer him a lot more than the Rangers could.

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01-03-2013, 03:23 PM
  #93
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Regarding Boyle, I don't really have a problem with him being a defensive third line center for us, but I think in general people are just concerned about the players we have in the bottom 6.

It's not that Boyle doesn't belong on the third line, it's just that the fourth line is a little scary and if we can get a higher end third line center, Boyle on the 4th line gives it a lot more cred. And when people scour attractive potential upcoming FAs, they see names like Arnott and Gomez who will be thought of as third liners more than fourth liners, so down Boyle goes to the 4th line.

I would ideally like to add 1-2 more bottom six guys here to make me feel good about it. But if young players can be brought up, that works too.

Or trade deadline.

Bottom line is that (1) Boyle, (2) Hagelin/Kreider, (3) Pyatt, and (4) Asham OR Rupp are good. I'd like to find two more to replace (1) Halpern and (2) either Asham or Rupp though.

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01-03-2013, 03:49 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
I started this thread and just read through all the responses and have not seen anyone give a good reason why Lecavalier for a year does not make sense:

1. He has almost an $8m cap hit through 2020 so HE WILL be an amnesty buyout. He is more of a no brainer than Redden
2. The fact he'll be getting all(most) of that money anyway makes it unlikely that he will be demanding a huge contract (he might want multiple years which would be a problem)
3. With Torts and Richards will have familiarity
4. Miller is not ready
5. Boyle is not good enough and we are one injury away from him being a 2nd line center
6. Vinny has scored 103 points in 129 games the last two years (compare that to 2nd and 3rd line cneters around the league)
7. he is only 32 years old

I am making huge assumption that he will work on a short term inexpensive deal based on all of the above and the Chance to win a Cup. If that is true, he is bretter than any option set forth in 4+ pages thus far IMO.
1. He's not a guaranteed buyout candidate. They'll buyout Malone before Vinny. They're not in danger of blowing the lid off of their cap even with VL on the payroll.
2. Why? What's stopping another contender from offering him another big 3-4 year deal? Just because he's getting money on the side from a buyout doesn't mean he's going to forfeit tons of cash in the last few years of his career to win a cup somewhere.
3. True, but they also had a pretty fiery relationship. Torts was always on his case about his compete level.
4. Obviously.
5. Boyle is absolutely fine. One or two teams in the NHL have #2 centers stocked away on their 3rd line. It's a lousy reason to think we need to upgrade there. Why not upgrade at RW? We're one injury away from Pyatt or Asham being our #2 RW. We're one injury away from Cam Talbot being our backup goalie. Makes no sense.
6. Is he really going to score that much on the 3rd line? No. If you sign him for 3rd line minutes, you might get slightly above average 3rd line production. He can't score 70 points if he's not getting the big minutes.
7. And declining rapidly. The guy has missed 20-ish games in back to back seasons.

You're asking a guy who has been a huge star in this league to come in and be a role player while he's still in his early 30's. Not only that, but you're offering him a pittance of what he'd likely get somewhere else. Just not going to happen.

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01-03-2013, 03:57 PM
  #95
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You're standing 6 feet under, then.

If the whole world is calling you crazy, it means you're crazy.

Keeping making pretend you think you know everything though. That attitute will get you real far in life.
How about no one under 18 can post here?

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01-03-2013, 04:00 PM
  #96
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Because they have eyes statboy. There are many variables that determine how many points someone gets in a season or a tournament such as linemates, ice time, puck luck. Watching JT play he is a much better player than BB; much better. He may need more seasoning but the talent level is not even comparable.
JT is likely a 2nd or 3rd line player... insane talent level above your 3rd line center... Yep..

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01-03-2013, 04:00 PM
  #97
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I don't see why you don't go after Lecavalier if he's available.

He adds another dimension to the lineup and if it costs no assets in return, why not go for it?

I would only sign him to a 1 yr deal however.

He had a similar PPG to Richards last year and I say those two are pretty close in terms of talent.

I just don't know if we can find the cap space to fit him in the roster.

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01-03-2013, 04:12 PM
  #98
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I don't see why you don't go after Lecavalier if he's available.

He adds another dimension to the lineup and if it costs no assets in return, why not go for it?

I would only sign him to a 1 yr deal however.

He had a similar PPG to Richards last year and I say those two are pretty close in terms of talent.

I just don't know if we can find the cap space to fit him in the roster.
Ummmm... yea...

TB likely won't buy him out, and if they do then someone (Habs?) will offer up a nice multi-year deal. Yea, I'd take him at 1 year.... Habs will offer him 4 year at 7.5 per...

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01-03-2013, 04:20 PM
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Ummmm... yea...

TB likely won't buy him out, and if they do then someone (Habs?) will offer up a nice multi-year deal. Yea, I'd take him at 1 year.... Habs will offer him 4 year at 7.5 per...
I can see why Lecavalier would want to come here though. Maybe he wants a 1yr contract to re-establish himself and then go for another retirement contract to finish his career. Maybe even return to the Bolts after 1 yr with the Rangers.

1. Contending team that was on the brink of reaching the Finals last year.

2. Gets to be re-united with his former NHL and junior linemate, Brad Richards. Richards contemplated to join the Bolts too when he was a FA before he chose the Rangers.

3. Connection with the head coach is huge. Lecavalier played his best hockey under John Tortorella and won the Stanley Cup.

4. NYC - nuff said.

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01-03-2013, 04:22 PM
  #100
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Quote:
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JT is likely a 2nd or 3rd line player... insane talent level above your 3rd line center... Yep..
And people seem to forget that Brian Boyle was a first round pick who in college scored well over a point per game. He was a very talented player in his own right; it's just that his offense didn't translate to the NHL. There is no guarantee that JT Miller's offense will translate either.

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