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Everything Canada (goaltending, coaching, future)

View Poll Results: ....
Yes 83 55.70%
No 41 27.52%
Maybe/Depends on the situation 25 16.78%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:52 PM
  #151
IHaveNoCreativity
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It's about tile Sutter came back, or we brought Hunter in... Coaching's been poor since Pat Quinn.

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01-03-2013, 01:52 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Nothing wrong with Canadian hockey development, we have the best junior league and WJC infrastruture - bar none.

You want to ensure continued Canadian domination? Remove the influx of US and European skaters in the CHL. Other nations have as many athletes, if not more, than Canada. What they have always lacked is a competitive development league that the CHL graciously offers. Voila.
There's nothing majorly wrong in Canadian development, but now you're annoying me with your ignorant post. It's as if you're a Cro-Magnon who just came out of your cave.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #153
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Ryan Nugent Hopkins is a bust. That's what happened. He did nothing in the 5-1 game... supposed superstar. The rest of the world has caught up to Canada. #notthe70s #gamealwayschanges

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01-03-2013, 02:03 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
There's nothing majorly wrong in Canadian development, but now you're annoying me with your ignorant post. It's as if you're a Cro-Magnon who just came out of your cave.
I guess sarcasm escapes you, but I guess it's expected with your stellar debating skills.

The point was nothing is wrong, just progress.

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01-03-2013, 02:12 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
From dominating everyone in the last lockout and going on a 5 year streak for gold to losing and being dominated by the US 5-1 in the semi finals of a best on best WJC.. what has happened?
In CHL they play far to many matches,and train to little.
The superior in this age group is 4 training's, then one match. In CHL there are almost the opposite,no?

Look at NCAA and Swedish youth programs, they are practicing skills,CHL,not so much.
I used to love watching Canadians play hockey.
Now it's just all about size,dump and chase.

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:13 PM
  #156
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Lack of personnality. Lack of offensive freedom. System over player. Robotic players.

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01-03-2013, 02:14 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukOwns View Post
Other countries are producing better teams now and just because Canada is Canada does not mean they will win every game. Plus we have Olympic Gold. So we are doing something right and I know someone will say that is 3 years ago. Canada still produces that best players in the NHL. You can take that to the bank.
And that's becauce of your huge talent pool.

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01-03-2013, 02:15 PM
  #158
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Their was no heart... This wasn't a Canadian team... The coaching was piss poor.


We need to put a bigger emphasis on skating at younger ages... And puck skills.

We produce good players yes, but our game is too slow.

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01-03-2013, 02:18 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
From dominating everyone in the last lockout and going on a 5 year streak for gold to losing and being dominated by the US 5-1 in the semi finals of a best on best WJC.. what has happened?

It's obviously dissapointing but nothing has happened other than canada played a bad game and that game happened to be an elimination one.

Suppose we had our best talent every year since the tournament started. Do you really believe we would have won EVERY SINGLE tournament..Ofcourse not. But because we know for a fact that NHL restrictions were the reason for our losses in 2010, 2011...possibly 2012 and many other years since this tournament started...we assume that it was the reason this year...Obviously it was not....we simply didn't win this year..because we didn't win...we lost...and we will lose again...and we will win again..and everybody has to take a deep breath..a step back..have a beer and realize that we didn't even send a national team, but a memorial cup champion for the first 8 years of the tournament, got dq'ed once, and have only ever sent our full lineup 3 times, and could easily have over 20 of these in the bank. Losing sucks...but we're gonna get up for the next one and realize that till the end of time we will have as good of a chance as any nation on any given year to hoist that trophy and we will again....and again....and again...and maybe 3 times in a row....and maybe 5 times in a row. just chill dudes..we're canada.

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #160
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It is not coaching -Spott is a very good coach..

Look--Canada just did not show up to start the game...got down and could never climb back out of the hole the dug for themselves...
Once up by 2 the Americans smelled victory--maintained their confidence and execution right to the end...Canada almost knew it was over...HOWEVER if some
shots had beaten Gibson and gone in THEN perhaps the "mo" and confidence of the agressive attacking,forechecking and speed transition American style would have changed to more caution and less confidence..Canada did not crack Gibson and so that mo really never changed ...Conversely even if you can't blame Subban for the American goals against him before being yanked -it aLAWAY DOES ome down to a goalie SAVING THE DAY until his slow to get in focus team can turn the "mo" around...in that regard SUBBAN did fail as any kind of SAVIOUR when the team in front of him just did not come with their A game -more like a D game early ...THAT spelled LOSS..

When Canada won golds --we always had GREAT GOALTENDING to save us--especially when we just di not bring our A game or in games we did and the goalie MAINTAINED leads ..

INSTEAD our recent lack of success has seen goalies FAIL to SAVE us from poor starts in semi-final games or FAIL to maintain leads in semior final games ..

So the lack of SAVIOUR GOALIES to bail us out is a huge reason we are not winnig Golds...

Another aspect: THE USA uses its speed and some pip-squeak forwards to take advantage of the big ice in euro-rinks ...Canada was demonstrably slower and was reluctant to hit more to slow down the USA speed for FEAR of penalties and too much USA PP chances .We can never win letting the USA speed run so free..Instead you MUST hit them a lot more -must be great on the Pk and must have a goalie saviour as the last line to bail you out fighting off more Pk's -do that and USA willbe thrown off their confidence ...

Canada had little offense from our D-men --compare that to what Trouba, Jones and Mcabe gave them...

I think CANADA must re-think its development programs for goalies and D-men --we need better contributions from those 2 areas ...AS to forwards--the model of 2 scoring lines a checking 3rd line and a limited role 4th line is no longer good enough-we need 3 scoring lines and 1 checking line--we need more attack and danger on transitioning the other way -we need to make opponents more cautious than they are now only worrying about stoping just ourtop 2 lines ..

Finally --there was a huge FAIL from out TOP (alleged) players--RNH,HuBERDEAU,JENNER,STROME,HAMILTON ,SCHEIFELE ---while we might survive one or two of them having stinker games --MOST TEAMS can't survive all of their top six guys having mediocre to stinker games --this is not coaching --let the psyhologits decide why all 6 "NHL'ers" failed at the crucial game -I can't fathom it ..
Might have been a different games if 3 or 4 of these top six "star" players had played with their a game as we desperately required--when they buckled instead of bringing their best effort-IT WAS OVER!

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #161
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This is what's wrong with Canada at the WJC

For starters i'd like to congratulate Both the US and Sweden for making it to the Finals. The US just plain outworked Canada and they were by far the better team. They deserved the win.

Now on to the topic at hand. I've been reading over these boards over the past weeks and I see posts blaming Subban or posts blaming Spott (who I think did a **** job), blaming undersized defenseman etc..You can't place blame on one single player or person.

We have to look at this as a collective group. I posted this in another thread and will repost here:

This may be nonsense to most but to me there is far too much "Hollywood" going on for Canada in the world Jr's lately. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or what but overall the players just seem different. Is it they feel too comfortable? Are all of these interviews mid game having an impact on their overall mindset. Do we really need to see what type of drill Ryan Murphy does to improve his footwork?

Get some hard ass Sutter or other old school coach in there and have these kids realize making team Canada and then showing up doesn't give you jack. They haven't won anything yet. The gatorade commercials and press conferences can follow after a gold medal.

-----------------

The overall feel of the World Jr's is just wrong now. It's become a way for major Canadian companies to feed off our emotional attachment to this tournament. Everything is Media this or twitter that. Everything is made far too easy for these players on this team.

Did I hear they had Tuesday off? WHAT? 2 days before the biggest game of some of these kids lives and they have the day off laying around playing video games? I'm trying to make sense of this.

Phil Housley sat one of his best forwards Grimaldi on the pines for almost an entire game.

Get rid of these coddling of egos, get rid of this sense of accomplishment for making team Canada and just showing up, Instill some damn fear into these kids/men (they are mature enough to realize the importance of this tournament to millions of Canadians). Strip away all laptops, cell phones or any type of other distraction, and have them realize that they haven't won anything yet.

Instead of having Ryan Strome worrying about what he's going to say to Nabil Karim on a live interview with TSN, perhaps during the 2nd intermission he should be worrying about how the hell he's going to create some momentum going into the 3rd.

To sum up my rant:

It's not the development of Canadian players, I think it's safe to say Canada had the most talent on paper. There is WAY too much Hollywood and other distractions for Team Canada going into and during the Tournament.

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:27 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Lack of personnality. Lack of offensive freedom. System over player. Robotic players.
You were dominated by players playing for the team without a personality. The team you described almost lost to the 1/5 Swiss

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01-03-2013, 02:29 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
To sum up my rant:

WAY too much Hollywood and other distractions for Team Canada going into and during the Tournament.
Generally speaking, I agree. The tournament is now less about playing for your country as a team and more about being a part of TSN's yearly circus sideshow. As another poster said in another thread, these kids are heroes before they even play a game. So why should they be motivated?

Before you used to make your name by playing at the WJCs and playing well. Now you make your name at the selection camp or in one of a thousand TSN profiles or hype shows.

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeChris View Post
Ryan Nugent Hopkins is a bust. That's what happened. He did nothing in the 5-1 game... supposed superstar. The rest of the world has caught up to Canada. #notthe70s #gamealwayschanges


He's a bust alright... More points then Crosby in '05, tied in points with Ovechkin and 2 points behind the tournament leader that year Bergeron.

He is most definitely a bust considering he score at almost a ppg average in his rookie season.

Leave the hastags on twitter.

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01-03-2013, 02:32 PM
  #165
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The issue is not player development. Look at the rosters for Canada in 2006 and 2007. This team was far, far more talented, but unfortunately it never actually played like a team. The issue is more about how Canada approaches the tournament, and as others have said the last few coaches do not compare to Sutter and Hartsburg. The whole culture surrounding the team seems to be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
For starters i'd like to congratulate Both the US and Sweden for making it to the Finals. The US just plain outworked Canada and they were by far the better team. They deserved the win.

Now on to the topic at hand. I've been reading over these boards over the past weeks and I see posts blaming Subban or posts blaming Spott (who I think did a **** job), blaming undersized defenseman etc..You can't place blame on one single player or person.

We have to look at this as a collective group. I posted this in another thread and will repost here:

This may be nonsense to most but to me there is far too much "Hollywood" going on for Canada in the world Jr's lately. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or what but overall the players just seem different. Is it they feel too comfortable? Are all of these interviews mid game having an impact on their overall mindset. Do we really need to see what type of drill Ryan Murphy does to improve his footwork?

Get some hard ass Sutter or other old school coach in there and have these kids realize making team Canada and then showing up doesn't give you jack. They haven't won anything yet. The gatorade commercials and press conferences can follow after a gold medal.

-----------------

The overall feel of the World Jr's is just wrong now. It's become a way for major Canadian companies to feed off our emotional attachment to this tournament. Everything is Media this or twitter that. Everything is made far too easy for these players on this team.

Did I hear they had Tuesday off? WHAT? 2 days before the biggest game of some of these kids lives and they have the day off laying around playing video games? I'm trying to make sense of this.

Phil Housley sat one of his best forwards Grimaldi on the pines for almost an entire game.

Get rid of these coddling of egos, get rid of this sense of accomplishment for making team Canada and just showing up, Instill some damn fear into these kids/men (they are mature enough to realize the importance of this tournament to millions of Canadians). Strip away all laptops, cell phones or any type of other distraction, and have them realize that they haven't won anything yet.

Instead of having Ryan Strome worrying about what he's going to say to Nabil Karim on a live interview with TSN, perhaps during the 2nd intermission he should be worrying about how the hell he's going to create some momentum going into the 3rd.

To sum up my rant:

It's not the development of Canadian players, I think it's safe to say Canada had the most talent on paper. There is WAY too much Hollywood and other distractions for Team Canada going into and during the Tournament.
There's a whole lot of yes in this post.

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:32 PM
  #166
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It has nothing to do with talent or development, Canada has the best to pick from.

It's coaching and politics. RNH didn't make the team 3 years ago despite being the highest scorer in the WHL. You have a guy like Ryan Murphy making the team over Corrado who looked solid in camp. Even after the many shaky starts by Subban, there wasn't even a consideration of playing Binnington, who looked great in camp and the last 15 minutes of the game today.

Hockey Canada is biased and has their favorites. If Spott wasn't the coach this year there was no way Murphy would have made the team, and thats how it should have been. I don't know much about Spott, but i'd prefer a coach who encouraged the players to play a more physical game. Guys like Camara and Jenner were barely a physical presence and that's highly due to the coaching and rolling of the lines.

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:34 PM
  #167
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If you think Canada is slipping you're ridiculous. Right now there's 4 teams that can always win with Sweden, Russia, US and Canada. Then you have the 2nd tier that can be competitive with Finland (maybe even top tier), the Czechs, Slovaks and now the Swiss have looked good over the past few years.

If you think they aren't producing talent you clearly didn't even look at their roster for this year. They had the best team on paper for sure, I don't think that's even arguable. RNH, Schefeile, Hamilton, Huberdeau and Strome would've played in the NHL this season and who knows who else would've, Jenner maybe.

Just because Canada is Canada doesn't mean we're going to win every year. We have had shoddy goaltending for the past couple years but today's game can hardly be blamed on Subban, especially since he had 2 fantastic games prior to this.

It's good to see really, I don't think anyone wants to watch Russia and Canada play in the gold medal game every year.

You can put it on things like coaching as well and politics because I don't like some of the players who were taken but when it gets down to it, it just happens.

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01-03-2013, 02:34 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeChris View Post
Ryan Nugent Hopkins is a bust. That's what happened. He did nothing in the 5-1 game... supposed superstar. The rest of the world has caught up to Canada. #notthe70s #gamealwayschanges
How is he a bust for not turning up in 1 game?

What does that make Yakupov?

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01-03-2013, 02:35 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Their was no heart... This wasn't a Canadian team... The coaching was piss poor.


We need to put a bigger emphasis on skating at younger ages... And puck skills.

We produce good players yes, but our game is too slow.
Yes, correct.
Winning has come down to skating and puck management.
I would venture to say that of all the elite teams in the Wjc, Canada has the least amount of time to build team play.
We cannot emulate any of the teams preparation because we have a program that does not allow for much specialty training.

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01-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
How is he a bust for not turning up in 1 game?

What does that make Yakupov?
He hit a post, got absolutely robbed in close all alone against Gibson, set up Hamilton with a beauty pass on the PP that should've resulted in a goal and made some decent plays and reads. I didn't think he was even that bad TBH.

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01-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Nothing wrong with Canadian hockey development, we have the best junior league and WJC infrastruture - bar none.

You want to ensure continued Canadian domination? Remove the influx of US and European skaters in the CHL. Other nations have as many athletes, if not more, than Canada. What they have always lacked is a competitive development league that the CHL graciously offers. Voila.
100% true.

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01-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
The issue is not player development. Look at the rosters for Canada in 2006 and 2007. This team was far, far more talented, but unfortunately it never actually played like a team. The issue is more about how Canada approaches the tournament, and as others have said the last few coaches do not compare to Sutter and Hartsburg. The whole culture surrounding the team seems to be an issue.
while we were watching round robin games my buddies and I commented on how soft Canada was playing and how that was bad news. Not just in terms of physical play either, but trying to get these cute little soft passes to work that ended up being turned over rather than making sure the puck got to the target, and it really was just a microcosm of what happened to them in the semi final. Too much cuteness not enough hard work. That's coaching cause a guy like Sutter is all about instilling in his team that you win by outworking the other team not by outskilling them.

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01-03-2013, 02:45 PM
  #173
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It's a coaching problem. We had some of the best talent in the tournament, and yet we had a mental breakdown against the USA.

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01-03-2013, 02:47 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
For starters i'd like to congratulate Both the US and Sweden for making it to the Finals. The US just plain outworked Canada and they were by far the better team. They deserved the win.

Now on to the topic at hand. I've been reading over these boards over the past weeks and I see posts blaming Subban or posts blaming Spott (who I think did a **** job), blaming undersized defenseman etc..You can't place blame on one single player or person.

We have to look at this as a collective group. I posted this in another thread and will repost here:

This may be nonsense to most but to me there is far too much "Hollywood" going on for Canada in the world Jr's lately. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or what but overall the players just seem different. Is it they feel too comfortable? Are all of these interviews mid game having an impact on their overall mindset. Do we really need to see what type of drill Ryan Murphy does to improve his footwork?

Get some hard ass Sutter or other old school coach in there and have these kids realize making team Canada and then showing up doesn't give you jack. They haven't won anything yet. The gatorade commercials and press conferences can follow after a gold medal.

-----------------

The overall feel of the World Jr's is just wrong now. It's become a way for major Canadian companies to feed off our emotional attachment to this tournament. Everything is Media this or twitter that. Everything is made far too easy for these players on this team.

Did I hear they had Tuesday off? WHAT? 2 days before the biggest game of some of these kids lives and they have the day off laying around playing video games? I'm trying to make sense of this.

Phil Housley sat one of his best forwards Grimaldi on the pines for almost an entire game.

Get rid of these coddling of egos, get rid of this sense of accomplishment for making team Canada and just showing up, Instill some damn fear into these kids/men (they are mature enough to realize the importance of this tournament to millions of Canadians). Strip away all laptops, cell phones or any type of other distraction, and have them realize that they haven't won anything yet.

Instead of having Ryan Strome worrying about what he's going to say to Nabil Karim on a live interview with TSN, perhaps during the 2nd intermission he should be worrying about how the hell he's going to create some momentum going into the 3rd.

To sum up my rant:

It's not the development of Canadian players, I think it's safe to say Canada had the most talent on paper. There is WAY too much Hollywood and other distractions for Team Canada going into and during the Tournament.
Nicely said. When this team was picked I said here on hfbaords that this team would not medal and I was blasted. I also said I would be back to rub it in everyone's face or to have everyone rub it in my face. You cand have a team of 22 Gretzky's. you need a team effort and spott relied to much on one line. He didn't adapt fast enough and was to stubborn to change his mindset.

Next 2 years we should get some decent goalies. Fucale and comrie. And I hope there is no favouritism next year. I put the blame on the selection of this team and the people at the top.

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Old
01-03-2013, 02:49 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
100% true.
Yes our 3 CHL players have really made it hard for Canada to compete.

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