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Amnesty buyout candidates and its implicatons

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Old
01-03-2013, 12:39 PM
  #26
eyeball11
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Perhaps the thread could benefit from seeing who is under contract for what terms going into next year so we could debate who we could or could not consider going after both for next year and the year after (note this assumes a Komisarek buy out which puts us at $37 M committed (I think - unless the first table counted his buyout).

Player
Contract End
Cap $
Player
Contract End
Cap $
Player
Contract End
[CENTER]Cap $
?
-
-
?
-
-
Kessel
2013-14
$5.4 M
Van Riemsdyk
2017-18
$ 4.25 M
Grabovski
2016-17
$5.5 M
Kulemin
2013-14
$2.8 M
?
-
-
McClement
2013-14
$ 1.5 M
Frattin
2013-14
$0.925 M
?
-
-
?
-
-
Brown
2013-14
$ 0.736667 M
Phaneuf
2013-14
$ 6.5 M
Gardiner
2013-14
$ 1.116667
   
Liles
2015-16
$3.875 M
?
-
-
   
?
-
-
?
-
-
   
Reimer
2013-14
$ 1.8 M
Scrivens
2013-14
$ 0.6125 M
   



Armstrong & Tucker - $ 1.0 M x 2 ends 2013-14

UFA - Lupul, Bozak, Connolly, Lombardi, MacArthur, Steckel

RFA - Kadri, Gunnarsson, Holzer

Franson ?

Bolded UFA are worth debating (IMO). If we landed a legit 1C, I wouldn't mind seeing Bozak on the 3rd and McClement on the 4th. Not sure if Gunnar, Kadri or Franson may or may not be involved in trades coming out of the lockout.

Depending on buyouts, some vet guys that might become intriguing are Luongo, Lecavalier, Horton...outside shot of a Krejci but I highly doubt it.

If the cap is $60 M and you divided it roughly equally between # of players by position, you'd end up committing roughly $36 M to forwards, $18 M to defense and $6 M to goal. $12.5 committed to the second line might be a bit high but I guess that magnifies the need to have the bottom 2 lines full of ELC guys, which is good I guess given ours will soon come on line. If your bottom 6 averaged $1 M you could still afford $18 M on your top line.


Last edited by eyeball11: 01-03-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #27
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what would stop loungo from signing with toronto for 1 million? he'd still get his money from vancouver, and save the leafs much needed cap?

in other words what happens in a scenario where a player is amnestied and there is no bidding war to establish fair market value, or in the case of players signing rediculously low contracts to give their new teams good cap relief?

As this ever been tried before?

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01-03-2013, 01:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by bluebarry View Post
what would stop loungo from signing with toronto for 1 million? he'd still get his money from vancouver, and save the leafs much needed cap?

in other words what happens in a scenario where a player is amnestied and there is no bidding war to establish fair market value, or in the case of players signing rediculously low contracts to give their new teams good cap relief?

As this ever been tried before?
Not that I can think of.

Vokoun comes to mind sorta, last year signed with a team he felt could compete for 2M when he could have easily gotten more elsewhere.

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01-03-2013, 02:32 PM
  #29
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Is the cap going to be $60M?

I thought Bettman was sooo gung-ho about the CBA being whole,
and this is a part, and its seemed (at this point) signed in quicksand.
The $60 million cap is what Bettman wants for the small market teams, because this way the cap floor isn't as high for them to at least be at. However the players want it to be around $65 - $67.5 million and I'm sure some of the major market owners want it around that number so they don't need to trade a lot of their core players.

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01-03-2013, 02:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
You are assuming that you will be able to trade and buy-out?

I'm betting the rules won't allow that.

Komisarek seems like the likely player to be bought out for the Leafs.
Maybe you're right. An easy "fix" would be that you're only allowed to amnesty a contract your team signed. The thing is, this whole debacle is about the poor teams who have trouble spending to the floor. Every amnesty buyout will come out of the owners pocket (outside of the cap) to one extend or another, depending on what the player is offered by other teams.

What can the Isles do with DiPietro? They're essentially just as ****'d as before, since there's no point even buying him out. They may as well just keep him, and just operate with a $40M floor.

This trade option could allow an informal way of added revenue sharing, which of course, comes at a cost (prospects). As Mess has pointed out, it's not much different from the Lombardi/Franson deal.

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01-03-2013, 03:09 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Schenn View Post
I swear I heard Lebrun say on SC this morning that in the current deal there is 2 amnesty buyouts per team, not just one.
Just heard it on SN, fixing OP. Thx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
A team like Detroit with only $45 mil before any amnesty buyouts and $15 mil in cap space with a perennial contender will be at the top of the list as suitors for players.

Corey Perry and others playing with the likes of Datsyuk and Zetterberg as his center would be really enticing and close to home for example.
Let's say the Wings re-sign Howard @ $2.5M (and let Filppula walk), which leaves them with $12.5M cap space to use on 7 players. I don't see how they can make room for a player like Perry without some major roster juggling, unless he takes a major paycut (yeah, right ) in order to play with on a contending team.

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Vancouver resolving their cap situation of a Luongo trade to Toronto seems rather obvious for both teams.
Why would the Leafs do any favors for the Canucks? With the reduced cap, that contract becomes even more brutal. If Burke really wanted him, it'd make sense to force the Canucks' hands, and get them to use their amnesty on Luongo. Are we worried about someone snatching Luo up before he can be amnestied?

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01-03-2013, 05:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Why would the Leafs do any favors for the Canucks? With the reduced cap, that contract becomes even more brutal. If Burke really wanted him, it'd make sense to force the Canucks' hands, and get them to use their amnesty on Luongo. Are we worried about someone snatching Luo up before he can be amnestied?
Are you suggesting that a starting goalie for the Leafs is not a benefit ?

No GM needs to start showing success soon more than Burke, so despite what he says to the later, acquiring Luongo isn't about doing anyone a favour more than doing one for himself by the acquisition.

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01-03-2013, 05:33 PM
  #33
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Amnesty Buyout Clause: Chance for Burke to make amends

With the NHL and NHLPA finally appearing to make some progress in negotiations for a new CBA, word has leaked that the new CBA will include an Amnesty Buyout Clause. The buyout will reportedly allow each team to effectively rid themselves, somewhat, of an albatross-type contract, thereby easing the transition to a lower salary cap (reported to be 60 million). This buyout clause is generating a lot of discussion, as it would afford teams the opportunity to right a certain free agency, or trade acquisition ‘wrong’. Outlined below are some targets on who the Leafs could use their own buyout provision on.

http://www.wewantacup.com/headlines/...to-make-amends


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01-03-2013, 06:09 PM
  #34
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thanks

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01-03-2013, 06:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Are you suggesting that a starting goalie for the Leafs is not a benefit ?

No GM needs to start showing success soon more than Burke, so despite what he says to the later, acquiring Luongo isn't about doing anyone a favour more than doing one for himself by the acquisition.
I'm saying that we shouldn't take on a retarded contract if we have the option to "re-negotiate" the contract. Not to mention we could save the assets we'd use in the trade.

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01-03-2013, 06:33 PM
  #36
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I'm saying that we shouldn't take on a retarded contract if we have the option to "re-negotiate" the contract. Not to mention we could save the assets we'd use in the trade.
I agree. It would be utterly ridiculous to trade for Luongo in these circumstances. It's basically equivalent to trading and wasting assets on a player that a team is going to buy out.

However, it would be even more ridiculous to use this provision on Komisarek, who has one year left on his contract.

I'm wondering if you have to get rid of a player if you use the provision on him. People are looking at it in a traditional buy out sense, but what if you still want the player on your team? For example, take JVR. A good player and I can see him having value league-wise. However, he has a long-term contract at 4.5 million. If the Leafs wanted, they could use the provision on him with the intention of him still being on the team, just his cap hit wouldn't count and they'd still be paying him. I wonder if something like this is possible. I can see a lot of teams preferring this over the buy-out avenue.


Last edited by Epictetus: 01-03-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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01-03-2013, 06:34 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
A team like Detroit with only $45 mil before any amnesty buyouts and $15 mil in cap space with a perennial contender will be at the top of the list as suitors for players.

Corey Perry and others playing with the likes of Datsyuk and Zetterberg as his center would be really enticing and close to home for example.

Vancouver resolving their cap situation of a Luongo trade to Toronto seems rather obvious for both teams.

Yet they could sign anyone this summer.

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01-03-2013, 06:45 PM
  #38
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I agree. It would be utterly ridiculous to trade for Luongo in these circumstances. It's basically equivalent to trading and wasting assets on a player that a team is going to buy out.

However, it would be even more ridiculous to use this provision on Komisarek, who has one year left on his contract.

I'm wondering if you have to get rid of a player if you use the provision on him. People are looking at it in a traditional buy out sense, but what if you still want the player on your team? For example, take JVR. A good player and I can see him having value league-wise. However, he has a long-term contract at 4.5 million. If the Leafs wanted, they could use the provision on him with the intention of him still being on the team, just his cap hit wouldn't count and they'd still be paying him. I wonder if something like this is possible. I can see a lot of teams preferring this over the buy-out avenue.
That would seem a little unjust. Basically Crosby and Malkin would count zero towards the Pens cap. My wouldn't THAT be nice.

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01-03-2013, 06:55 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebarry View Post
what would stop loungo from signing with toronto for 1 million? he'd still get his money from vancouver, and save the leafs much needed cap?

in other words what happens in a scenario where a player is amnestied and there is no bidding war to establish fair market value, or in the case of players signing rediculously low contracts to give their new teams good cap relief?

As this ever been tried before?
what are the chances Luongo goes to the open Market and only 1 team is interested in signing him, forcing him to sign so low? if Luongo gets bought out by Vancouver he will still get 5 million on a new deal for a shorter term.

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01-03-2013, 07:23 PM
  #40
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I dont like the John Michael Liles contract. 32 yrs old. 4 yr 15.5 million. 3.5 years left. We have a ton of D, Reilly is ready but im not against leaving him in junior and try out Ranger or Holzer. Komasarek has only 1.5 years left. whats that 6.75 million?

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01-03-2013, 07:26 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I dont like the John Michael Liles contract. 32 yrs old. 4 yr 15.5 million. 3.5 years left. We have a ton of D, Reilly is ready. Komasarek has only 1.5 years left. whats that 6.75 million?
I think Liles is a better buyout than Komisarek personally.

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01-03-2013, 08:56 PM
  #42
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We wouldn't have to sign him for 7 years, right?

I'd give lecavalier $5 mil for 3 years, no problem...
Trade Liles for DiPietro + 1st. Buy him out and sign Lecavalier. The salaries would almost cancel each other out. Stanley cup winning, one time all world stop gap at #1C.

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01-03-2013, 09:05 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I dont like the John Michael Liles contract. 32 yrs old. 4 yr 15.5 million. 3.5 years left. We have a ton of D, Reilly is ready but im not against leaving him in junior and try out Ranger or Holzer. Komasarek has only 1.5 years left. whats that 6.75 million?
ah liles is a useful pass-first d-man, bad contract I guess but considering he took a 300k paycut I dont think it was that bad.

it's only a risk if his play really falls off, but if he plays like he should(30-40ish point d-man) he has solid value.

Komi has proven he cant live up to his contract, he's a healthy scratch half the time, it's time to let him go. He's taking up far too much space.

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01-03-2013, 11:34 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by namttebih View Post
Trade Liles for DiPietro + 1st. Buy him out and sign Lecavalier. The salaries would almost cancel each other out. Stanley cup winning, one time all world stop gap at #1C.
Lecavalier wont get bought out by TB.

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01-04-2013, 12:22 AM
  #45
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Buyout Komisarek, Sign Ranger to a cheap NHL deal.

It would be so sick, if the lockout ends next week and those are the first two moves.

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01-04-2013, 06:50 AM
  #46
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To me, John Michael Liles is the most obvious buy out candidate on our team. He's suffered either two or three concussions in the last 2 years, and the player we had pre concussion this season compared to what returned was massively different. Liles showed little offensively and played timid and loose in the defensive zone. I'd be worried about him for 4 more years and I said at the time that I believe that contract was a mistake.

I also dislike the Grabovski contract, but I wouldn't buy him out, so I guess the second buyout would be Komisarek. Buying out Komisarek at this point doesn't really accomplish much though if we had worse contracts. He's only got 1 season left anyway.

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01-04-2013, 07:33 AM
  #47
Rare Jewel
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Grabovski? Liles? I even heard Kulemin on a radio show that will go unnamed.

All of these guys aren't even close to being considered for an amnestied buy out imo.

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01-04-2013, 07:37 AM
  #48
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Grabovski? Liles? I even heard Kulemin on a radio show that will go unnamed.

All of these guys aren't even close to being considered for an amnestied buy out imo.
Buying out Grabovski and Kulemin doesn't get us anywhere. Neither one is overpaid enough for it to make sense to cut them out of the team.

Liles isn't overpaid, but his health + term + performance creates a legitimate discussion

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01-04-2013, 07:44 AM
  #49
Rare Jewel
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Buying out Grabovski and Kulemin doesn't get us anywhere. Neither one is overpaid enough for it to make sense to cut them out of the team.

Liles isn't overpaid, but his health + term + performance creates a legitimate discussion
Health maybe, But performance?

He's main reasons our PP was top 10 for the first part of last year, And when Guastad injured him it went right down the tube. I even believe that his injury was the start of the eventual collapse of the team, But that just my own theory.

He's also one of the most deeply rooted players in the community with a bunch charities he's involved in. Which is another reason I think he's here for most of his current contract and certainly won't be amnestied.


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01-04-2013, 08:18 AM
  #50
therealkoho
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pair him on the PP with dion
pair him on the PP with Gardiner

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