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Lots of wingers; Blockbuster coming?

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01-01-2013, 11:08 AM
  #1
jessejames
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Lots of wingers; Blockbuster coming?

With the depth the Blues have on the wings, it's

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01-01-2013, 01:54 PM
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Mike Liut
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I hope the Blues sit tight and not make any moves. I want to see Cole play with Petro before making a blockbuster trade and giving away top prospects like Rattie, Schwartz or Jaskin. That's my only fear. The Blues are completely stacked and are ready to start making deep playoff runs and have blue chip prospects waiting.

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01-01-2013, 02:27 PM
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D'Agostini, McDonald, and Stewart. What do they all have in common? The likelihood or possibility for various reasons that they will no longer be with us in the nearish future.

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01-01-2013, 03:09 PM
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I doubt that there will be any trades before the trade deadline. There is no time to get new players integrated into team systems. Most teams will have to go with what they have now, and see what impact injuries during the season will have on availability of players for trade.

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01-01-2013, 03:30 PM
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jessejames
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Sorry for the mangled intro.

I don't want to see the Blues part with Rattie, Jaskin, or Schwartz either. We don't know what we have in them yet (and may not know for several years).

Maybe I'm foreseeing problems that won't exist. Steen needs to succeed at center, if that's where he plays. Berglund needs to step up his game. Cole needs to find his comfort level in the NHL.

If Lehtera comes over next season and makes the transition to the NHL, the center spot could be a real team strength.

I certainly hope that MacDonald plays out his career in St. Louis -- either that or he fetches a windfall in prospects/picks via trade.


Last edited by jessejames: 01-01-2013 at 03:33 PM. Reason: forgot a point
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01-01-2013, 04:25 PM
  #6
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I don't think there's a blockbuster coming. Blockbuster implies a main piece of our team or of our future. D'Ags or Stewart are definitely trade bait, but I wouldn't call a deal involving them a blockbuster.

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01-01-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I don't think there's a blockbuster coming. Blockbuster implies a main piece of our team or of our future. D'Ags or Stewart are definitely trade bait, but I wouldn't call a deal involving them a blockbuster.
I'd bet against ANY trade by The Blues before the 2 weeks before the trade deadline.

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01-01-2013, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jessejames View Post
Sorry for the mangled intro.

I don't want to see the Blues part with Rattie, Jaskin, or Schwartz either. We don't know what we have in them yet (and may not know for several years).

Maybe I'm foreseeing problems that won't exist. Steen needs to succeed at center, if that's where he plays. Berglund needs to step up his game. Cole needs to find his comfort level in the NHL.

If Lehtera comes over next season and makes the transition to the NHL, the center spot could be a real team strength.

I certainly hope that MacDonald plays out his career in St. Louis -- either that or he fetches a windfall in prospects/picks via trade.
Whether McDonald ends his career in St. Louis will be up to him. If he is willing to take the drop in pay necessary to remain a Blue, then I'm sure we will be delighted to have him back. If he doesn't, then he'll be leaving as a free agent and we will get nothing in return.

I think we need to accept that Berglund is what he is, even if it isn't what we wanted him to become. He is still "only" 24 so he might still be able to take the next step, but I don't think there is any reason to be looking down on a 40-50 point centre who is very good defensively and can be relied upon.

We do have plenty of wingers, but our strength is our depth. Our lack of top offensive talent means that we need to have those 3 scoring lines in order to remain a top team in the NHL. I agree with bleedblue1223 that it is unlikely that we will see Stewart remain a Blue for long, even if he gets off to a good start when we get hockey back.

The real issue with our team right now is the make up of the defense. As much as I like the discount that Jackman took to stay here, his signing has put us in a bit of an awkward situation.

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01-01-2013, 06:57 PM
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jessejames
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Robb's statement:
I'd bet against ANY trade by The Blues before the 2 weeks before the trade deadline.

That should be when? Six weeks from now?

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01-01-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jessejames View Post
Robb's statement:
I'd bet against ANY trade by The Blues before the 2 weeks before the trade deadline.

That should be when? Six weeks from now?
It will come by quickly. If players we are considering trading to upgrade the defence are playing well, and the defencemen are playing well, The Blues may not want to make a trade. If our "tradables" are doing poorly, we will get offered less for them, or, possibly, not get an offer. Then, a trade won't be made. Several things will have to go right for a trade to occur. I hope that Cole will meet his challenge and a trade will not be made.

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01-01-2013, 10:18 PM
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I'm sure the trade deadline would be made a little later if the season starts back up. The market has to be balanced with buyers and sellers, otherwise it would just be a disaster

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01-02-2013, 07:34 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
D'Agostini, McDonald, and Stewart. What do they all have in common? The likelihood or possibility for various reasons that they will no longer be with us in the nearish future.
i'd say trading McDonald would be a pretty big mistake. he brings some things to our offense that no one else can quite match right now.

as for the other two, obviously i'd prefer to trade D'Agostini because i'm still a pretty big believer in Stewart, but if it took Stewart to find the right defenseman, okay.

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01-02-2013, 10:25 AM
  #13
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i'd say trading McDonald would be a pretty big mistake. he brings some things to our offense that no one else can quite match right now.

as for the other two, obviously i'd prefer to trade D'Agostini because i'm still a pretty big believer in Stewart, but if it took Stewart to find the right defenseman, okay.
I'm not saying trade McDonald, but he will retire or sign elsewhere relatively soonish.

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01-02-2013, 12:24 PM
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I'm probably alone with this stance, but I don't particularly want to see D'Agostini traded. He's a valuable third-fourth line player who can fit into the top-6 when needed. His season last year was de-railed by injury, but the year before he potted 20 goals. He's fast, has a howitzer of a shot, and works hard -- and comes relatively cheap.

I don't know about Stewart. He's shown he can score. And he has shown he can be bloody awful. I'm really divided about him.

As for MacDonald, I disagree with bleedblue1223 in his apparent certainty that Mac will either retire, be traded, or sign elsewhere. MacDonald, I argue, is one of the 3 or 4 most valuable players on the team. I may well be wrong, but I think Armstrong will do his best to keep Mac in the fold.

Having said all that, who do I see being shopped as possible trade bait, you ask? Well, first off, I'm with Robb in thinking that no trades will be made for some time, as management will want to see more of certain players.

Cole, for one, has to begin showing more. I don't think you can go forward with his mistake-prone play continuing. I think too that Russell will be looked upon for a greater role. Nevertheless, the D depth has to be shored up at some point.

Getting back to who will be traded (and I'm not necessarily advocating this approach) I can see the Blues doing something similar to what the Toronto Blue Jays have done in the off-season -- dealing prospects for proven big-leaguers.

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01-02-2013, 12:29 PM
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I'm not saying he will be gone immediately, but with his age, I give him 2 or 3 more seasons and that's if he takes a discount. It will take that amount of time for Rattie and Jaskin to completely take over, which is why I don't see any of them being moved.

McDonald is 35 and will be 36 at the start of next season, his end is near.

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01-02-2013, 02:42 PM
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I agree on McDonald. I think I read on his twitter that he wants to play for another 4 years? Good luck with that, but with his injuries I kind of doubt that happens...at least not here. I appreciate what he has done for us and he is a very good player, but at some point in the near future we are going to need to let Schwartz take his spot IMO.

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01-02-2013, 03:06 PM
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I agree on McDonald. I think I read on his twitter that he wants to play for another 4 years? Good luck with that, but with his injuries I kind of doubt that happens...at least not here. I appreciate what he has done for us and he is a very good player, but at some point in the near future we are going to need to let Schwartz take his spot IMO.
The extra time off will have helped with McDonald's injury issues, and he'll be feeling better today than at any point in recent years. We also can't ignore the fact that when he is healthy, he is by far our most dynamic player on the ice and that shows on the score sheet and PP production.

There is no doubt that he'll have to take a pay cut to stay in St. Louis, but equally, there is no doubt that the organisation will be desperate for him to stay.

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01-02-2013, 03:09 PM
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The extra time off will have helped with McDonald's injury issues, and he'll be feeling better today than at any point in recent years. We also can't ignore the fact that when he is healthy, he is by far our most dynamic player on the ice and that shows on the score sheet and PP production.

There is no doubt that he'll have to take a pay cut to stay in St. Louis, but equally, there is no doubt that the organisation will be desperate for him to stay.
Yes he is a great player but the time off doesn't make his past concussion issues go away. As a smaller player, one more hit to his head and he could be gone for a while. He's just risky. So, yeah, he'd have to take a discount. And I don't think the Blues would be "desperate" for him to stay. I agree that he is one of the more dynamic players on our team and I'm sure management would like him back, but this Blues team that just finished 2nd in the West with McDonald only playing 25 games is not exactly desperate. Let's remember that and not act like the rest of our team is complete crap.

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01-02-2013, 03:12 PM
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i think McDonald taking a pay cut to stay is fairly reasonable. dude seems to like it here. and i'm not saying hold onto him as a first line player by any stretch, but i still think he can add a lot to the blues offense for at least a couple more seasons.

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01-02-2013, 04:33 PM
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Yes he is a great player but the time off doesn't make his past concussion issues go away. As a smaller player, one more hit to his head and he could be gone for a while. He's just risky. So, yeah, he'd have to take a discount. And I don't think the Blues would be "desperate" for him to stay. I agree that he is one of the more dynamic players on our team and I'm sure management would like him back, but this Blues team that just finished 2nd in the West with McDonald only playing 25 games is not exactly desperate. Let's remember that and not act like the rest of our team is complete crap.
Much of an overreaction to one word? "Desperate" might be the wrong word, but we'll certainly be working very hard to convince him to stay!

Time off doesn't make his injury past disappear, but it does help the situation. His age isn't the issue at this point, just his injury aspect. It is no more of a risk to sign McDonald for a couple of years at $3.25m per than it is to expect Schwartz is going to be anywhere capable of replacing him over the next couple of years.

Of course, if we were going to throw money at someone like Stephen Weiss in FA then it would make much more sense to let McDonald go.

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01-03-2013, 05:42 AM
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I agree on McDonald. I think I read on his twitter that he wants to play for another 4 years? Good luck with that, but with his injuries I kind of doubt that happens...at least not here. I appreciate what he has done for us and he is a very good player, but at some point in the near future we are going to need to let Schwartz take his spot IMO.
Schwartz has a long way to go before he takes Andy McDonald's spot. He is on a pace for 50 points in the minor leagues and isn't superior at that level. Andy is close to a point a game player in the NHL. In Andy's last partial season in the minors, Andy was a 1.5 points a game player. Schwartz needs to prove he can dominate play and score consistently in the minors in order to be a top six or top three in the NHL.

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01-03-2013, 05:20 PM
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Schwartz has a long way to go before he takes Andy McDonald's spot. He is on a pace for 50 points in the minor leagues and isn't superior at that level. Andy is close to a point a game player in the NHL. In Andy's last partial season in the minors, Andy was a 1.5 points a game player. Schwartz needs to prove he can dominate play and score consistently in the minors in order to be a top six or top three in the NHL.
He's not exactly playing with world class talent either. I think he could put up similar numbers in the NHL that he is in the AHL simply because the guys he will be playing with will be much better. He puts up 50 points per season, I'd be thrilled.

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01-03-2013, 07:36 PM
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He's not exactly playing with world class talent either. I think he could put up similar numbers in the NHL that he is in the AHL simply because the guys he will be playing with will be much better. He puts up 50 points per season, I'd be thrilled.
I don't know if you mean in the AHL or NHL, but in either case, I agree. On pace for 50 points in the AHL as a 20 year old is pretty impressive, especially (as you pointed out) when he has very little help offensively.

I think keeping him is honestly the best option for us, he is close to being an NHL point producer. The person I would be most willing to part with is Stewart, and the only reason for that is because of the emergence of Jaskin and Rattie (more of Jaskin though). Schwartz wouldn't even be in my top five or seven of people I would want to trade first.

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01-04-2013, 05:42 AM
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He's not exactly playing with world class talent either. I think he could put up similar numbers in the NHL that he is in the AHL simply because the guys he will be playing with will be much better. He puts up 50 points per season, I'd be thrilled.
If he is capable of making the players around him better, then it would show at the AHL level. A cross reference in Blues talent Lars Eller had one single 20 goal scorer on his Peoria team back in 2009-2010, and he managed nearly 60 points. The most he has managed at the NHL level so far is 30 points. 50 points in the AHL doesn't translate to 50 points in the NHL or Trent Whitfield would've been a star and we would all have Jean-Guy Trudel jerseys. Justin Papineau at 20 managed better than a 50 point pace with a team that had 50 point guy Pascal Rheaume as its leading scorer. He was a point a game player at 21. It didn't translate to the next level. Michael Handzus was nearly a point a game player at 20 years old and the team's leading scorer. He has never eclipsed the 60 point mark his entire NHL career that he scored at 20 in Worcester. So if history is any indicator, then I'm not quite as excited. The players in the NHL are bigger, stronger, and faster than in the AHL. If you can't score at that level, then you most likely won't score at the NHL level. It isn't an end all for Schwartz's career or potential, but I certainly would like to see first line production in the minors before I would consider them a future front line NHL producer. I'm thinking that he may need more seasoning, especially with the talent that is in front of him.

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01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #25
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If he is capable of making the players around him better, then it would show at the AHL level. A cross reference in Blues talent Lars Eller had one single 20 goal scorer on his Peoria team back in 2009-2010, and he managed nearly 60 points. The most he has managed at the NHL level so far is 30 points. 50 points in the AHL doesn't translate to 50 points in the NHL or Trent Whitfield would've been a star and we would all have Jean-Guy Trudel jerseys. Justin Papineau at 20 managed better than a 50 point pace with a team that had 50 point guy Pascal Rheaume as its leading scorer. He was a point a game player at 21. It didn't translate to the next level. Michael Handzus was nearly a point a game player at 20 years old and the team's leading scorer. He has never eclipsed the 60 point mark his entire NHL career that he scored at 20 in Worcester. So if history is any indicator, then I'm not quite as excited. The players in the NHL are bigger, stronger, and faster than in the AHL. If you can't score at that level, then you most likely won't score at the NHL level. It isn't an end all for Schwartz's career or potential, but I certainly would like to see first line production in the minors before I would consider them a future front line NHL producer. I'm thinking that he may need more seasoning, especially with the talent that is in front of him.
If you've watched any of the Rivermen games, you could easily see that he does in fact make the players around him better. Two games against Grand Rapids comes to mind. They simply did not have an answer for him. I'm not sure how many points he had in those games, but he completely dominated every shift. Grand Rapids has quite a few borderline NHL players too(Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco etc) and they couldn't stop him. Even the Grand Rapids announcer was talking about how he was moving the puck at will. I've seen one other game where he took over almost every shift too, but can't remember the team. The points might not be impressive, but his play has been very good. He's almost always one of Peoria's top forwards.

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