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01-02-2013, 02:17 PM
  #326
blinkman360
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Nice going Ville
Agreed. Didn't know a damn thing about him when he was drafted, and I was actually kind of disappointed considering the guys who were still on the board, but Pokka seems to be a very steady defender. Definitely a lot of potential there. Really goes to show how talented our defensive group is when a guy like Pokka is ranked 4th or 5th... maybe even 6th or 7th depending on who you prefer(Reinhart, deHaan, Donovan, Mayfield, Pelech, Pokka, Pedan). What a sick group.

If only a few of them were a little closer to the NHL...

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01-02-2013, 02:25 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Agreed. Didn't know a damn thing about him when he was drafted, and I was actually kind of disappointed considering the guys who were still on the board, but Pokka seems to be a very steady defender. Definitely a lot of potential there. Really goes to show how talented our defensive group is when a guy like Pokka is ranked 4th or 5th... maybe even 6th or 7th depending on who you prefer(Reinhart, deHaan, Donovan, Mayfield, Pelech, Pokka, Pedan). What a sick group.

If only a few of them were a little closer to the NHL...
I believe he had a very solid WJHC last year too.

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01-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #328
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I believe he had a very solid WJHC last year too.
Right. Last year Pokka made the team as the 7th d man. In the first game Olli Mataa was injured
and missed the rest of the tournament. Pokka took advantage of the ice time. Other than a
pre tournament game,none of Finland's games have been shown on NHL Network because
they were in the other bracket. Sounds like he's doing very well.

Just saw highlights of his 2 goals on youtube, nice shots if you want to check it out.
They are available on www.newyorkislanders.com


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01-02-2013, 03:56 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Datsyuk was drafted in 98 as an overager, played first game in 01-02 season at 23 years of age.

Zetterberg was drafted in 99, debuted at winged wheel in 02-03 season being 22 years old.
While this is true, you have to keep in mind that they were playing professionally in their home countries years before jumping into the NHL. Datsyuk from the age of 16 and Zetterburg from 18. Both leagues competing against men, so not only do they have better development opportunities playing against better competition but also are much more acclimated when jumping from a Jr. league (such as the OHL) to the NHL or even the AHL.

This is not to counter the argument of how the Wings have derived their success nor that they're not patient with their prospects, moreso that the agreement between the NHL and CHL may not be in the best interest of player development.

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01-03-2013, 04:44 AM
  #330
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Reinhart is awful.. all tourney.

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01-03-2013, 05:49 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by YashinWorksHard View Post
Reinhart is awful.. all tourney.

Well then you didn't watch the tourney, or maybe just a little clueless as to what you are watching.

As far as tonight's game though? Yes, his lack of speed was exposed. He absolutely needs to work on his skating. Late to the play too many times tonight. Let's be honest though, at least he isn't Ryan Murphy. Wow is he terrible. Maybe you have the two confused, I didn't see anything out of Murphy all tournament.

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01-03-2013, 07:54 AM
  #332
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I know here is forbidden say something bad about an Islanders prospect but has been shown that Reinhart is very far from what you expect for a fourth overall pick. He doesn't looked good in this tourney, and you can say i didn't watch the game or whatever you want.

In the other hand i think Pokka had a pretty good tournament.

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01-03-2013, 08:13 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by YashinWorksHard View Post
I know here is forbidden say something bad about an Islanders prospect but has been shown that Reinhart is very far from what you expect for a fourth overall pick. He doesn't looked good in this tourney, and you can say i didn't watch the game or whatever you want.

In the other hand i think Pokka had a pretty good tournament.

It's not forbidden, I'm not 'sky high' on every Isles prospect. BUT I did watch every game Reinhart played this tournament, and while a bit inconsistent, and foot speed needs a lot of work, he is a sound defenceman who in time will unquestionably be a guy who any team would love to have as their top 3 defenceman logging 22+ minutes a night. He is far from a finished product and has work to do. Im glad I got to see him play against this level of competition in WJC, his weakness' were much more pronounced than in the WHL.

As far as Pokka, I only saw him play twice this year and twice last year so I am really not able to comment. I hope you're right, but he's still an unknown to me. His numbers look good though.

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01-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by YashinWorksHard View Post
Reinhart is awful.. all tourney.
I wouldn't say ALL tournament, he was pretty solid the first few games. BUT against the good teams, he was not solid. In fact, In the 2-1 win against USA earlier, I believe he was -1. The way he played, he looked like he was afraid of making mistakes, instead of playing with confidence, I almost wish he didn't make the team, like I predicted he wouldn't. The tournament he had may hurt whatever confidence he had.

I hate to say it, and don't want to pile on, but I did say that I wasn't impressed with Reinhart prior to the draft, after seeing him at the Memorial Cup last May, and unfortunately that's two tournaments where he didn't impress.

Strome was also invisible the last two games, when you need your stars to step up (against the better teams). I will say he was probably one of the most impressive forwards against the US, despite the loss. He had a lot of chances, but ran into a hot goalie.

I know it's like a broken record, but man has Trouba been incredibly impressive. What a defenseman, without a doubt the most impressive defensman in the tourny, with the amazing Seth Jones close behind. Jones had the type of tournament only phenoms have, and he truly is a phenom. I know people probably would have destroyed Snow in the media if he had picked Trouba instead of Reinhart, just because of where the so called experts rated them, but man I wish he would have picked Trouba. Him and Jones are going to be great American d-men for years to come, many Olympics in their future.

I know it's one tournament, but like Bill Parcells used to say, we are who we are, and I doubt Trouba has less than a successful career. Whereas I have doubts about Reinhart, I hope I'm wrong about him.

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01-03-2013, 12:52 PM
  #335
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Trouba couldnt defend against the Finns. He cant disengage on changes of puck possesions. Big shot, likes to hit, but all tools no brain. Bogosion part 2, hell need lots of coaching to teach him how to track pucks.

People are falling in love with the highlight reels and completely ignoring this guy was eaten alive in the one game where they faced a real system.

I agree Jones is a phenom. Trouba? Good talent but couldnt sniff Jones jockstrap. Jones is more talented than Hedman and Larsson. Hes bigger than Doughty, as good if not better skater, can outlet from anywhere to anywhere, explosive first step in any direction, can turn on a dime, and is extremely well coached but confident in his superior skillset. Jones blew me away. Trouba just looked like h could one day be an NHLr.


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01-03-2013, 01:03 PM
  #336
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As for Trouba v Reinhart, Reinhart was pinching and playing a style hes not suited for. Id consider them close in upside, both play differently and will be used differently when they make it. I liked Trouba then for his RH shot.

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01-03-2013, 01:08 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
As for Trouba v Reinhart, Reinhart was pinching and playing a style hes not suited for. Id consider them close in upside, both play differently and will be used differently when they make it. I liked Trouba then for his RH shot.
I'd say Reinhart's defensive upside may be slightly higher than Trouba's, but Trouba's offensive upside is way above Reinhart's. Let's face it, if Reinhart had the tourny Trouba is having, we'd all be going crazy about the next great NHL d-man.

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01-03-2013, 01:11 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Trouba couldnt defend against the Finns. He cant disengage on changes of puck possesions. Big shot, likes to hit, but all tools no brain. Bogosion part 2, hell need lots of coaching to teach him how to track pucks.

People are falling in love with the highlight reels and completely ignoring this guy was eaten alive in the one game where they faced a real system.

I agree Jones is a phenom. Trouba? Good talent but couldnt sniff Jones jockstrap. Jones is more talented than Hedman and Larsson. Hes bigger than Doughty, as good if not better skater, can outlet from anywhere to anywhere, explosive first step in any direction, can turn on a dime, and is extremely well coached but confident in his superior skillset. Jones blew me away. Trouba just looked like h could one day be an NHLr.
I am glad we agree on Jones though. One more thing we need to agree on with Jones, he needs to be an Islander ! lol

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01-03-2013, 01:14 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by YashinWorksHard View Post
Reinhart is awful.. all tourney.
I don't agree with this assessment. In fact, I thought as a whole that Canada's "defensive defensemen" such as Reinhart, Harrington, Oullet, and Wotherspoon, were Canada's most reliable and best. I thought Rielly had his moments of greatness as well, but Hamilton underwhelmed and Murphy was a train wreck.

Reinhart does need to work on his footspeed, though. It was one of the more noticeable weaknesses in his game. This tournament, while certainly not quite NHL-caliber, showed that he still has some trouble against faster/more skilled guys. So while I know it's been said by some that watch him a lot that he's NHL-ready, IMO, he's not. Not until he improves his skating from what it currently is.

I thought Reinhart had a safe tournament. He wasn't really a standout, but I thought he was solid. I certainly felt comfortable when he was on the ice for Canada.

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01-03-2013, 01:30 PM
  #340
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I am glad we agree on Jones though. One more thing we need to agree on with Jones, he needs to be an Islander ! lol
I agree on Jones so much, that if I had the top pick in the draft he's my choice.
Special player for sure.

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01-03-2013, 01:43 PM
  #341
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I am glad we agree on Jones though. One more thing we need to agree on with Jones, he needs to be an Islander ! lol
Im a 100% believer that Jones is a perenial Norris contender generational talent. His skating, hands, understanding of how to play, vision, and ability to wallguys off physically is unreal. Its a shame other big mobile guys have taken the wind out of the hype sails cause Jones is superior in every facet of the game to every dman drafted in the last decade. Only thing he needs to work on is not trying to manhandle guys with his upperbody and thats a nitpick cause no was going through they just werent getting tossed.

Isles get Jones and you can start planning a cup parade.


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01-03-2013, 02:15 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Im a 100% believer that Jones is a perenial Norris contender generational talent. His skating, hands, understanding of how to play, vision, and ability to wallguys off physically is unreal. Its a shame other big mobile guys have taken the wind out of the hype sails cause Jones is superior in every facet of the game to every dman drafted in the last decade. Only thing he needs to work on is not trying to manhandle guys with his upperbody and thats a nitpick cause no was going through they just werent getting tossed.

Isles get Jones and you can start planning a cup parade.
I agree with every word of this.

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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
In fact, I thought as a whole that Canada's "defensive defensemen" such as Reinhart, Harrington, Oullet, and Wotherspoon, were Canada's most reliable and best. I thought Rielly had his moments of greatness as well, but Hamilton underwhelmed and Murphy was a train wreck.

Reinhart does need to work on his footspeed, though. It was one of the more noticeable weaknesses in his game. This tournament, while certainly not quite NHL-caliber, showed that he still has some trouble against faster/more skilled guys. So while I know it's been said by some that watch him a lot that he's NHL-ready, IMO, he's not. Not until he improves his skating from what it currently is.

I thought Reinhart had a safe tournament. He wasn't really a standout, but I thought he was solid. I certainly felt comfortable when he was on the ice for Canada.
This too.

WJC is a tournament where people tend to overemphasize and over penalize. Every game and shift is under a microscope. The love affair with Strome 2 days ago, is falling apart because he ran into a couple of hot goalies and Canada is playing for Bronze. Heck, a lot of Islander fans didn't even realize he was a strong penalty killer until this week. Others label him a floater. And Then guys like Reinhart were labeled 'mistake free' until he wasn't. The sky might be falling on Team Canadas medal chances, but it is not falling on the futures of these two prospects and others on the team. Sure Drouin didn't play great today I'm still taking him #2 behind Jones if the draft is next week.

Remember these kids are playing Overseas and having to play 6 games in a little over a week at hours their bodies aren't exactly used to, and are 17 and 18 years old.

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01-03-2013, 04:11 PM
  #343
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Seriously guys, it's one tournament. It's not be all end all. Lots of players shine in the WJC and have nothing careers. Lots others suck in the WJC and have amazing careers. They are kids. They are still developing. No reason to get wrapped around the axel. Also, D, even high pick D, typically take a while to develop.

No panic please.

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01-03-2013, 05:03 PM
  #344
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It probably seems like I'm the type that likes to say I told you so, and that might be the case if I didn't have to say it so often, but when it comes to Jones I love saying it.

Where's the guy who argued with me at the beginning of the hockey season that said Jones would fall to 4-5 in the rankings and that he was not a generational talent on defense?

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01-03-2013, 06:09 PM
  #345
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I thought Reinhart was pretty solid. Nothing spectacular but I think that was mostly due to the role he was chosen for. They wanted him on that team to be a defensive anchor. While that is usually his role anyway, I'm sure he was a bit uncomfortable having to limit his game, and think more as opposed to just reacting. The penalty he took today looked like a bit of frustration. Stupid penalty, but what are you gonna do? I'm sure he'll learn from it.

Trouba did look good, but I still don't regret the Isles taking Reinhart. The potential is just too big. Even his potential floor is pretty high, IMO. While Trouba had a big offensive tournament, I still think Reinhart's offensive upside is similar, if not higher. Griff's got the huge shot. It's just a matter of letting him use it. Once he finds a nice balance between being that defensive rock and jumping up into the play offensively, I think he'll be a true top-pairing NHL defenseman.

Either way, I wouldn't put much stock into this tournament when predicting where these young guys' careers will go. For one, Johnny Gaudreau looked better than RNH this morning. RNH was hardly noticable for the most part, IMO. For some reason I think he'll be OK though.

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01-03-2013, 06:12 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Konk View Post
It probably seems like I'm the type that likes to say I told you so, and that might be the case if I didn't have to say it so often, but when it comes to Jones I love saying it.

Where's the guy who argued with me at the beginning of the hockey season that said Jones would fall to 4-5 in the rankings and that he was not a generational talent on defense?
Not sure who you are referring to, but when it comes to this class I don't think I'd say "I told you so" until the draft actually happens. There are so many elite forwards at the top of this draft, I wouldn't be surprised if Jones falls to 3 or even 4 depending on the draft order and team need. Guys like Drouin, Barkov and even Lindholm are all pretty close. He should end up going 2nd(or even 1st) based on talent/upside, but anything is possible.

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01-03-2013, 06:49 PM
  #347
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Pedan played last night in a 6-2 loss. Game was even more lopsided than the score indicates. In the first Plymouth had two clear goals waived off for no apparent reason. Pedan had a rough night, taking 3 minor penlaties in the first period, 2 High Sticks, and a trip. None were really intelligent penalties. His lack of discipline seems to be getting worse, not better. Not sure if its a reflection of the coach or the player (or both). He also had a giveaway to 1st Rd Pick Tom Wilson who scored on the play, play was while Pedan was on the PK so he didn't get a minus, but a bonehead pass. I'll give him a break on that one as that is probably the best part of his game (first pass, clearing puck). Also early in the game Pedan tried to stand up Wilson on the blue line, Wilson barely moved and Pedan hit the ice. Wilson is a legit power forward and won last nights battle easily.

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01-03-2013, 07:41 PM
  #348
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Either way, I wouldn't put much stock into this tournament when predicting where these young guys' careers will go. For one, Johnny Gaudreau looked better than RNH this morning. RNH was hardly noticable for the most part, IMO. For some reason I think he'll be OK though.
excellent point. well put.

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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Im a 100% believer that Jones is a perenial Norris contender generational talent. His skating, hands, understanding of how to play, vision, and ability to wallguys off physically is unreal. Its a shame other big mobile guys have taken the wind out of the hype sails cause Jones is superior in every facet of the game to every dman drafted in the last decade. Only thing he needs to work on is not trying to manhandle guys with his upperbody and thats a nitpick cause no was going through they just werent getting tossed.

Isles get Jones and you can start planning a cup parade.
maybe an exaggeration, maybe not. I saw a player who should go #1 overall and if he doesn't then that has to be a real special player that goes before him. And I didn't see that in MacKinnon, Drouin or Barkov in the limited play at the WJC (and what little I saw of the two Canadians in them in the CHL)

Jones is an incredible talent, still extremely raw, but I saw enough to understand the hype, that's for sure. Amazing size, skills but what shined for me was his poise and hockey sense. He's better than I remember Pronger at that age. Still a lot to learn and playing in the NHL is the ultimate challenge for any dman but boy, this guy is something!

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I don't agree with this assessment. In fact, I thought as a whole that Canada's "defensive defensemen" such as Reinhart, Harrington, Oullet, and Wotherspoon, were Canada's most reliable and best. I thought Rielly had his moments of greatness as well, but Hamilton underwhelmed and Murphy was a train wreck.
Agree with this. These four were not difference makers, weren't asked to be, did a good job in the role they were asked to play. Unfortunately, the "big three" offensive guys were terrible, far inferior to the US dmen by comparison. I expected far more from Hamilton. Rielly was "okay" in spurts, had the occasional nice rush, but generally ineffective in generating offense. Murphy either tried (and failed) to rush the puck end to end or looked lost trying to defend without the puck.


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01-03-2013, 10:18 PM
  #349
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Mitch Theoret was hurt tonight in the Niagra-Barrie Game. About midway through the 2nd period he got put into the boards along the bench, and the door opened a bit. He caught his ribs/side area into the doorway. He looked like he was in a lot of pain and did not return to the game. Hopefully it's not too bad and he can return soon. He had been playing well this season and also in this game.

Jesse Graham played like Jack Hillen 2.0 again.

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01-03-2013, 11:01 PM
  #350
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Love to read what you guys see in Jones. I saw like 5 shifts (haven't been big on WJC this year) and he kind of reminded me of Doughty. Very smooth skating right handed dman who can greatly influence a shift.

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