Sure nobody hits in todays NHL ever that's why there are hardly any injuries like concussions....
I guess I have to ask, why didn't you assume that I was talking about the relative lack of obstruction that all players (particularly small ones) have faced since the previous lock out?
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123
but like I said before we can easily see Kane besting Kovalev's entire maximum prime in as little as 2 years time.
Totally possible. Probably even popular opinion right now. But...
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Originally Posted by Stephen
Has Kane even peaked?
I doubt it, but it's possible. How are we going to measure? Are you going to stick with points, and his current three year trend of 88-73-66? Or are we going to wait until he leads his team in scoring four times?
Sums up Kovalev right there. Most overrated player of the last decade. "Oh but he's so talented!!!". Yeah OK, well lets add Ales Hemsky to the poll too then.
I guess I have to ask, why didn't you assume that I was talking about the relative lack of obstruction that all players (particularly small ones) have faced since the previous lock out?
Perhaps you did, I try not to assume too much but the fact of the matter is that it is still really hard to score in todays NHL like it was in the clutch and grab era.
The NHL is still extremely over coached and the goaltending equipment is still out of this world.
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Totally possible. Probably even popular opinion right now. But...
Hey I was being generous here, the only true way to compare these guys now would be their 1st 5 years, it's really unfair to compare any player with 5 years to a guys whole career.
What accomplishments are those exactly?
Stanley Cup ring? Kane's Calder? Because Kovalev had a chance in hell of beating out one of the top 5 most deserved Calder's in the entire history of the league?
You are right but a 65-20-13-33 line by Kovalev wasn't going to beat any of the top 3 in Kane's year either, or top 5 for that matter.
Who knows in 93 if Lindros had played in 82 and not 61 games either?
Selanne's 76 goals would have been hard to top even with dominant 2 way play.
Kane was also in the mix for the Conn Smythe in 10, with Toews (the winner) and Keith also being in the mix.
You can't compare Kane on the Hawks when he came in to Kovalev on the Rangers back then. Kovalev had Messier, Gartner, Amonte, and Graves all ahead of him. The Hawks were brutal so Kane had nobody ahead of him. Besides, it's a rookie season. Doesn't much matter. And winning the Calder isn't all what you do yourself but what other rookies you have to compete with.
You can't compare Kane on the Hawks when he came in to Kovalev on the Rangers back then. Kovalev had Messier, Gartner, Amonte, and Graves all ahead of him. The Hawks were brutal so Kane had nobody ahead of him. Besides, it's a rookie season. Doesn't much matter. And winning the Calder isn't all what you do yourself but what other rookies you have to compete with.
The Hawks were brutal when Kane came to town and before his ELC was up they had a Stanley Cup. Says a lot about Kane.
The Hawks were brutal when Kane came to town and before his ELC was up they had a Stanley Cup. Says a lot about Kane.
That's a credit to him, but let's face it, they gathered a ton of talent in a quick period of time. Kane was just a piece. A nice piece, but just one piece. Kovalev was darn good for the Rangers in their Cup run in just his second season. So you can't take anything away from him really.
I'm not saying Kovalev is the better player here, honestly it's a tough choice and to me the one thing that holds me back from saying Kovalev is the big knock on him - that he's not easily motivated. I never liked him much because of that so maybe I would take Kane. Hard choice though as Kovalev is all-world talent (probably above Kane) himself and did have a darn good career. I'm just saying I wouldnt use the beginning of their careers to make a comparison. Different teams/situations and Kane is still fairly wet behind the ears to be truly compared with a guy who has played almost 20 years.
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Exhibit A as to how hockey doesn't matter on ESPN:
Last night an ESPN program was discussing how the Detroit Pistons needed a hero citing the heroes on the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions and no mention of the Detroit Red Wings. All this despite the Red Wings probably being the most succesful team in Detroit right now.
Says alot about how much talent they collected. How are the Hawks doing now with just Kane, Keith and Toews?
The Hawks were still a 100 point team last year...
I don't understand this supporting cast argument against Kane. Kovalev played on teams with Messier, Leetch, Zubov, Graves, Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Alfredsson, Spezza over the course of his career.
So you're basically looking at a guy who is guaranteed in top two in scoring on Chicago in five regular seasons and 4 playoffs versus a guy like Kovalev who didn't manage to lead his team in scoring until much later in his career. Has Kane even peaked?
Did I miss the part where, during his early prime, Kane was playing on teams with Gretzky or Jagr?
Kane will definitely be the better all-time player at this rate... a perrennial 70-90 point scorer. Kovalev could have been that (or better) but wasn't. As of now though, if we're comparing careers, easily Kovalev.
Kane will definitely be the better all-time player at this rate... a perrennial 70-90 point scorer. Kovalev could have been that (or better) but wasn't. As of now though, if we're comparing careers, easily Kovalev.
I took the question as who would you take, not who had the better career, hence why I answered Kane. Obviously Kovalev has the higher career value due to having played a complete career, but if I have them both as 18 year olds, based I what I know now, I'd take Kane.
Did I miss the part where, during his early prime, Kane was playing on teams with Gretzky or Jagr?
Exactly. Pointing out where a player finishes in team scoring is almost pointless.
Kane led his team in scoring twice in his first four seasons and finished second the other two times. Jaromir Jagr on the other hand only led his team once and finished 5th, 6th, and 5th in the other three of his first four season. See how pointless that stat can be?
Even placement in league scoring can be skewed. How many scoring titles does Steve Yzerman have? And how many does Jarome Iginla have? (no offense to Jarome)
Sums up Kovalev right there. Most overrated player of the last decade. "Oh but he's so talented!!!". Yeah OK, well lets add Ales Hemsky to the poll too then.
Sums up Kovalev right there. Most overrated player of the last decade. "Oh but he's so talented!!!". Yeah OK, well lets add Ales Hemsky to the poll too then.
Hemsky hasn't come close to touching Kovalev's couple of biggest seasons and Kovalev had over 1000 career points, so no, let's not.
What are we voting on? Their careers? That seems a bit harsh on Kane if that is the case given his age. Or are we voting on who we think will have the better career? I could see Kovalev doing better late on in his career given his size as I think Kane may have difficulties creating space if he loses his first step. But if it is who we think will have the better career I go with Kane.
