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Off-Season Madness the 16th: Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

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Old
01-03-2013, 10:05 PM
  #351
darko
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maybe
but thats alot of money for tampa

They wont have a choice. If they can't agree and it'll go to an arbitrator.

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01-03-2013, 10:11 PM
  #352
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Also, Cora said Blue Jays, Nationals and Red Sox had all been among teams that have scouted Vazquez.

https://twitter.com/alexspeier/statu...98722875899904

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01-03-2013, 10:29 PM
  #353
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Also, Cora said Blue Jays, Nationals and Red Sox had all been among teams that have scouted Vazquez.

https://twitter.com/alexspeier/statu...98722875899904
I know he's still participating in the baseball classic but I assumed he was done.

How the heck does Toronto and Washington fit someone like him in their respective rotations? Someone will offer him a fat contract no doubt.

Edit: Forgot Jackson left Washignton. They could easily move Detwiler back to a long relief role.


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01-03-2013, 10:36 PM
  #354
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I know he's still participating in the baseball classic but I assumed he was done.

How the heck does Toronto and Washington fit someone like him in their respective rotations? Someone will offer him a fat contract no doubt.
I have to believe it would be a spring training invite or minor league deal with the promise that he'd get a shot at the MLB rotation in the event of injury. There's no way the Jays would go into camp with Javier freaking Vazquez promised a rotation spot ahead of the 5 guys who we have now.

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01-03-2013, 10:38 PM
  #355
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I have to believe it would be a spring training invite or minor league deal with the promise that he'd get a shot at the MLB rotation in the event of injury. There's no way the Jays would go into camp with Javier freaking Vazquez promised a rotation spot ahead of the 5 guys who we have now.
He's been a work horse for so many years. I'd have to think that he gets a major league deal without breaking a sweat.

His 2010 year with the yankees is really the only outlier the past 5-6 years.


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01-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
I know he's still participating in the baseball classic but I assumed he was done.

How the heck does Toronto and Washington fit someone like him in their respective rotations? Someone will offer him a fat contract no doubt.

Edit: Forgot Jackson left Washignton. They could easily move Detwiler back to a long relief role.
Nats replaced Jackson with Haren so I'm not sure if they can guarantee him a spot either.

If he truly wants to sign with a contender, I'd think it has to be a minor league/split type of deal with incentives.

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01-04-2013, 12:19 AM
  #357
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Well he is worth more than what he will make this upcoming season and he's got the leverage to ask for more money. It's business.
He's under contract, he has no leverage.

"If you don't pay me more I'm not going to play!"
"Okay, then you get nothing. You lose sir, good day."
"Damnit."

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:48 AM
  #358
Nasty Nazem
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He's under contract, he has no leverage.

"If you don't pay me more I'm not going to play!"
"Okay, then you get nothing. You lose sir, good day."
"Damnit."
I disagree, he has leverage because Jays want him back as he is an elite bullpen arm who is also being paid below market value (5 straight seasons of ERA below 3!) and Oliver sees that. He can retire as he doesn't exactly need the money or he could strike a new deal with the Jays to get more money and incentive to come back for one more season.

Do the Jays do it? I have no idea and while I realize they are already at their payroll limits, I don't think I would have a problem with seeing the Jays throw 500K or so to get Oliver back for another year. Or Jays could just call his bluff and say that if you want to come back, you will come back at the terms we originally agreed on.

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01-04-2013, 09:14 AM
  #359
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is anyone who is an ESPN insider post the write up for the top 10 lineups in MLB? Maybe the infields too

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01-04-2013, 10:30 AM
  #360
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is anyone who is an ESPN insider post the write up for the top 10 lineups in MLB? Maybe the infields too
I'm pretty sure that's against board regulations.

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Old
01-04-2013, 10:35 AM
  #361
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I disagree, he has leverage because Jays want him back as he is an elite bullpen arm who is also being paid below market value (5 straight seasons of ERA below 3!) and Oliver sees that. He can retire as he doesn't exactly need the money or he could strike a new deal with the Jays to get more money and incentive to come back for one more season.

Do the Jays do it? I have no idea and while I realize they are already at their payroll limits, I don't think I would have a problem with seeing the Jays throw 500K or so to get Oliver back for another year. Or Jays could just call his bluff and say that if you want to come back, you will come back at the terms we originally agreed on.
I think we trade him to Texas for cash then turn around and sign Brandon Lyon to a 2 year deal with a 3rd team option year.

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01-04-2013, 10:47 AM
  #362
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I think we trade him to Texas for cash then turn around and sign Brandon Lyon to a 2 year deal with a 3rd team option year.
I could see AA working on a 3way deal even... where Texas ends up with Oliver and we get a lefty reliever from another team.

EDIT: I'd love to get Scotty Downs back from LAA

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01-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #363
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If he doesn't want back trade him to Texas ans sign Lyon with the money left from Oliver

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #364
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I'm pretty sure that's against board regulations.
I remember when they were discussing the Hockey News lists on the main we weren't supposed to but people just told people to go to another site that had them.

If we're allowed to post it I will because as I said a few pages ago, I know a place that does post all the ESPN insider stuff.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:20 PM
  #365
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uh oh

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/t...aseball-010413

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01-04-2013, 12:26 PM
  #366
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That sucks about Oliver.

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01-04-2013, 01:45 PM
  #367
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I just don't get Oliver's perspective. You're 42 years old, you have plenty of money and a family in Dallas.

If you don't want to play baseball, retire. If you'd like to play for Texas, demand a trade to texas. If you'd like to play for Toronto, then play for Toronto at the agreed upon salary.

I can't see how a 15 or 20% salary raise increases his quality of life enough to justify the negative PR this will create for him. Part of me wonders if it's just an ego move - he just doesn't want to be seen as a bargain pitcher and needs to have a bigger pay cheque to feel like he's respected (which, if true, is a horribly fragile ego).

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01-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #368
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Why does Oliver think he is so special? Should Joey Bats make similar demands given that he is one of the most underpaid players in the MLB?

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01-04-2013, 02:05 PM
  #369
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I just don't get Oliver's perspective. You're 42 years old, you have plenty of money and a family in Dallas.

If you don't want to play baseball, retire. If you'd like to play for Texas, demand a trade to texas. If you'd like to play for Toronto, then play for Toronto at the agreed upon salary.

I can't see how a 15 or 20% salary raise increases his quality of life enough to justify the negative PR this will create for him. Part of me wonders if it's just an ego move - he just doesn't want to be seen as a bargain pitcher and needs to have a bigger pay cheque to feel like he's respected (which, if true, is a horribly fragile ego).
He shouldn't demand a trade. IF you want to play it's for Toronto, if you value family time then retire. He has a contract that was mutually agreed to, he should have to honour it. I'm sick of teams just giving in to players, tell Oliver to stay home if he wants more money.

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01-04-2013, 02:09 PM
  #370
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Farrell has already used the Jays as a means to an end. They should not let this happen again with Oliver.

No player should ever be bigger than a club, regardless of how good they are.

Walk away, Toronto.

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01-04-2013, 02:21 PM
  #371
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Why does Oliver think he is so special? Should Joey Bats make similar demands given that he is one of the most underpaid players in the MLB?
At this point in his career, its not so much about helping the young guys and being on a good team, as it is making the most money to go out with. I don't blame him whatsoever.

It is a business and I think he is in the right to ask for a raise. He doesn't think he's bigger than the team, he's smart to ask for it after the year he had for it.

I would give him 5 million, but no more than that. If he doesn't take it, then put your money elsewhere.

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01-04-2013, 02:33 PM
  #372
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Now that Ashby is gone who do you hope takes over? Probably Wilner

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01-04-2013, 02:36 PM
  #373
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He shouldn't demand a trade. IF you want to play it's for Toronto, if you value family time then retire. He has a contract that was mutually agreed to, he should have to honour it. I'm sick of teams just giving in to players, tell Oliver to stay home if he wants more money.
You could take that stance, it would be perfectly acceptable for the Jays to say "either show up or don't, we're not renegotiating a contract you agreed to 12 months ago, and we're not trading you either" and nobody in baseball would think any worse about them.

But, and I'm not saying the amount would make a big difference in his life, if he truly values being with his family, then it makes sense that he would be less motivated to play for a salary that is below market value. I mean, forgetting salary, if you worked a job for 20 years where you missed basically your children's entire childhoods, were ready to retire, and your boss asked you to come back for about 70% of what comparable employees would make, would you do it? Or would you stay home and actually be a part of your family?

I'm not saying I'd give him a raise or move him, I'm just saying that I can see the human side to what he's saying and he shouldn't really be vilified for it.

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Now that Ashby is gone who do you hope takes over? Probably Wilner
I'd say Hayhurst, he's a smart guy and I enjoyed the couple times he was in the booth. I don't mind when Wilner calls games, but I don't really like him much lol

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01-04-2013, 02:44 PM
  #374
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I'd say Hayhurst, he's a smart guy and I enjoyed the couple times he was in the booth. I don't mind when Wilner calls games, but I don't really like him much lol
I personally find Hayhurst to be very honest about his opinions. There's a respect factor there. I'd rather see him in the studio breaking down plays with Zaun or Campbell, while having Wilner in the booth.

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01-04-2013, 02:47 PM
  #375
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I personally find Hayhurst easier to listen to and seems to be very honest about his opinions. I'd rather see him in the studio breaking down plays with Zaun or Campbell, while having Wilner in the booth.
I think its almost a guarantee that they bring in a fomer major leaguer.

Between Howarth and Wilner they'd have a total of 0 professional baseball games played

Jack Morris, Joe Carter and Dirk Hayhurst are guys that come to mind. Zaun could get the job as well and Jose Cruz Jr could turn his part time gig into a full time one.

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