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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Everything Canada (goaltending, coaching, future)

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Yes 83 55.70%
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Old
01-03-2013, 11:27 PM
  #226
WarriorofTime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Nothing wrong with Canadian hockey development, we have the best junior league and WJC infrastruture - bar none.

You want to ensure continued Canadian domination? Remove the influx of US and European skaters in the CHL. Other nations have as many athletes, if not more, than Canada. What they have always lacked is a competitive development league that the CHL graciously offers. Voila.
The development of good hockey players around the world should be a greater goal than Canada winning even more World Juniors Gold Medals than they already do. It's good for the NHL and game as a whole if more people around the world are playing hockey at a higher level.

Besides, your Junior Leagues certainly benefit from the addition of players such as Yakupov, Grigorenko, and Jones so it's a win-win for both parities involved.

I think you're making too much of an issue of it anyways. On the US team that beat Canada only Galchenyuk, Hartman, Biggs, Trochek, Jones, Murphy, Sieloff, and Gibson currently play in the CHL. All of them could have easily played in the NCAA but chose the CHL for their own personal reasons whether it be to be a higher draft pick like Jones and Galchenyuk or they were unhappy with their playing time in the NCAA like Biggs. They weren't necessarily better than the NCAA guys like Gaudreau, Miller, Kuraly, Trouba, Reilly, and McCabe.

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Old
01-03-2013, 11:36 PM
  #227
Jerkini
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
No thanks. He's out of touch at this point. This is the guy who was playing JF Jacques on the Oilers first line and Ryan Stone in the top 6 as well.
He's also the last guy to win a world junior gold medal.

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01-03-2013, 11:37 PM
  #228
loudi94
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These kids have had pressure on them their entire careers. As they get older it just increases. A 6 year old losing the city championship is going to feel just as ****** as these guys do. They got where they are because they don't wilt. They didn't have it today. It happens. Don't try to over analyze things.

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01-03-2013, 11:45 PM
  #229
RJ8812
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Originally Posted by Oyabun View Post
What has the Canadian media had to say about the loss to the US ?
http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/story/?id=412699

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Old
01-03-2013, 11:46 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
These kids have had pressure on them their entire careers. As they get older it just increases. A 6 year old losing the city championship is going to feel just as ****** as these guys do. They got where they are because they don't wilt. They didn't have it today. It happens. Don't try to over analyze things.
I don't mean to sound like a d**k but if you think a city championship where maybe a 1/4 of a city even cares compared to almost an entire nation i think letting down a city would feel a lot less emotional then letting an entire country down. The fact that these guys rebound and can carry on is a testament to their mental prowess. Letting your country down is something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.


Last edited by Deezzy22: 01-03-2013 at 11:47 PM. Reason: The parents of a team care about a city championship
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01-03-2013, 11:57 PM
  #231
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Dustin Rose is the one and only man that could lead Canada back to their Championship reign.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:09 AM
  #232
loudi94
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Originally Posted by Deezzy22 View Post
I don't mean to sound like a d**k but if you think a city championship where maybe a 1/4 of a city even cares compared to almost an entire nation i think letting down a city would feel a lot less emotional then letting an entire country down. The fact that these guys rebound and can carry on is a testament to their mental prowess. Letting your country down is something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.
Factor in the age. To a 6 year old, their friends, family and team mates, it is the world to them. As they get older, the scope increases but so does their ability to handle it.

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01-04-2013, 12:34 AM
  #233
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Make no mistake about it, losing any competition at a young age that a kid himself takes seriously will stick with them the rest of their lives. The first cut is the deepest, as they say. However, the fact is that every kid needs to learn how to cope with loss, it's a part of life, and sports is great for that.

Do I think the kids in this tournament face too much pressure? Perhaps, but if nobody cared about this tournament in Canada, the glory these kids strive for would also be greatly lessened. Nobody is forcing them to play. It's closer to the truth to say they would walk through walls to be on these teams just to get the opportunity to face this pressure.

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01-04-2013, 01:59 AM
  #234
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TSN really annoys me with how much hype and pressure they put on these kids. I know its a big event for them but it almost makes me a little disturbed how much they focus on a tourney full of teenagers.

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01-04-2013, 02:11 AM
  #235
Dream Big
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Originally Posted by Deezzy22 View Post
Has anyone ever thought that the immense pressure to win gold we place on these 17-19 year old kids may have an adverse effect on their performance. I 'd be hard pressed to find another tourney other then the Olympics that we place so much pressure on the players to win. What other hockey country other then Russia is a Gold medal expected at every event we are in?
No I don't think that the pressure would have an adverse effect on their performance. Only three players have not yet been drafted. All the rest have been under pressure leading up to their draft year and since then as they know their draft teams are keeping close eyes on them.

These are the best in Canada and have had pressure on them at every level on the way up. They are performers or they would not be on this stage.

I'm sure there are some nerves and jitters coming in to the game. However most of them have been playing hockey since they are 4 and 5 years old and playing the game would automatically take over.

Yes the pressure to win Gold by Canadian fans is huge especially since we call it "Canada's game" It's crushing to lose when you are on Team Canada. I hate to lose. The wins are much much sweeter.

The boys have played well this tournament. A better team won today.

FYI My observation of the first game against the USA you could see that USA was going to be trouble for Canada. USA had just come off a game and Canada was more rested and should have completely dominated and yet it was a 2-1 game. It was obvious then that this was a team to look out for.

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01-04-2013, 08:47 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
TSN really annoys me with how much hype and pressure they put on these kids. I know its a big event for them but it almost makes me a little disturbed how much they focus on a tourney full of teenagers.
Agree. Just look at how many times someone on TSN will say "anything less than gold..." or how quick they were ready to cannibalize the team in the Slovakia game. They'll get their "story" win or lose. Watching the panel after the Buffalo choke was embarrassing.

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:04 AM
  #237
ODAAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezzy22 View Post
Has anyone ever thought that the immense pressure to win gold we place on these 17-19 year old kids may have an adverse effect on their performance. I 'd be hard pressed to find another tourney other then the Olympics that we place so much pressure on the players to win. What other hockey country other then Russia is a Gold medal expected at every event we are in?
Sure there`s tons of pressure, spun heavily by the media here. Truth is, for many years, this country won with regularity which started this attitude and belief from far too many that anything short of Gold was both unacceptable and a disgrace which was and is ludicrous and many here have become obnoxious with their beliefs that this is "our game"......news flash, this WAS our game, now it is a Global game.

Hockey Canada has a program in place that other countries for years envied, and eventually, many aspects of the development program were then adopted by other nations and is one of the many reasons why we see teams such as the USA/Russia/Finland/Sweden icing stronger teams yearly.

There is nothing wrong with the talent this country is producing, there is nothing wrong with the development of the kids in this country, there`s a reason why we see so many European/Russian teens coming to Canada to play their Junior years, it`s due to the fact that the CHL is still recognized as one of the best development grounds and gives each kid a higher exposure to scouts.

I love the parity now at the WJHC`s, this is a global game and having different countries playing for gold proves it. Canada not winning gold for now 4 years isn`t a travesty, it is a statement that other countries are producing great players who gel for a 2 week period and put it together at the right times.

There is still a heavy "political" presence within Hockey Canada and my belief is that the organization needs to do two things

1- Hire a coach specifically to coach this tournament on a regular basis creating a continuity

2- Bring the best players. The best players are often the strongest at adapting to different roles.

I don`t care if our boys win Gold or win nothing, these are teenagers who, when the tournament begins, have the entire country pumping their tires, then when or if they stumble, are equally quick to throw them under the bus, it`s disgusting and I won`t be a part of it.

These kids bust their arse, and the game is decided on the ice and in this years Semi`s, they were beat by a team who wanted it more, played with more intensity and fire, case closed. Nothing wrong with talent in this country, MUCH wrong with the decision process of talent IMO

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01-04-2013, 09:13 AM
  #238
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I don't understand how canadians can complain about non-canadian players in CHL. It makes the leagues better for god sake. The best thing that could happen to swedish hockey is if players like Yakupov, Grigorenko et.c. went to play in the swedish junior league Superelit. So a few swedes wouldn't get a spot, but the level of play would increase immensly which equals better development for the swedes playing in Superelit.

The problem for Czech rep. and Slovakia is somewhat linked to their national junior leagues being drained of talent, with all the best leaving for CHL. This leaves a depleted league which doesn't challenge the remaining players enough. Which is good for Canada and bad for Czech rep. and slovakia in my opinion.

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01-04-2013, 10:01 AM
  #239
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I'd take Brent Sutter back on another two-year run. In a heartbeat.

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01-04-2013, 10:04 AM
  #240
Blind Gardien
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This is not a part time position anymore, needs to be a full time coach dedicated to the position with the responsibility to go along with it. Spott still has his job to go back to, he is losing any money because of this performance. A full time HC should have bonuses related to success as well.
Wow, the WJC is my 2nd favourite hockey of the year (well, 2nd to Habs playoff hockey - favourite if there is no Habs playoff hockey!) and easily above men's Worlds etc for me. But I still don't see how it rates having a full-time coaching staff or that much of an invested effort. It's a really fun tourney, a couple great weeks in mid-winter, but... ? There's a fundamental reality here. There simply are nations that have 25 players who are as good as Canada's 25 best players. There is a single game elimination format. And it doesn't really matter what approach Canada takes, they aren't going to win every time. Or most times anymore. They had an unusually long/lucky string of winning. Followed now by a slightly long/unlucky string of not winning. It's just the way the ball bounces. No need to go to extremes on this.

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01-04-2013, 10:07 AM
  #241
Darth Handsome
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I don't think it is a big deal. Three issues for Canada at these tournaments, coaching, goaltending and speed. The Americans were a lot faster than Canada. Coaching and goaltending used to Canada's strenghts, not so much anymore. Price was the last goaltender for Canada that was the tournaments best goalie.
Well, a midget team would have been faster. You can't skate very fast when you aren't moving your feet.

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01-04-2013, 10:12 AM
  #242
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Agree with what you said. However, while Canada did beat the U.S. in the round robin, the US were the better team that game.
Look at all seven games this team played, including exhibition. They looked like a good, cohesive unit in one game out of seven. This team was plagued with a litany of issues that Spott either ignored or didn't have the capacity to notice.

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01-04-2013, 10:15 AM
  #243
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I actually like someone's idea from yesterday (posted in the Brent Sutter thread), about having a full-time coach responsible for U-20 and U-18 teams. He'd run both programs, coaching the U-18's in the spring and summer tournaments, and U-20 team in the winter (and if they have a summer run of games setup, which I'm thinking will become more frequent).

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01-04-2013, 10:37 AM
  #244
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Pressure isn't the biggest reason for failure imo.

1) Repeatedly starting Subban even though it was clear he simply was not running hot at the time.
2) Taking Murphy(most likely because Spott is his coach- having an unbiased coach dedicated to looking for the best possible player combinations would have prevented this) Plus Corrado should have been on the team and I'm still bitter about it.
3) Not playing Mackinnon and Drouin together. I don't have any idea why they weren't on the same line more regularly.

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01-04-2013, 10:38 AM
  #245
toewsintangibles
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Originally Posted by Darth Handsome View Post
Well, a midget team would have been faster. You can't skate very fast when you aren't moving your feet.
This years team Canada was a midget team, even smaller than the fellowship of the hobbits team Finland

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01-04-2013, 10:40 AM
  #246
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Wow, the WJC is my 2nd favourite hockey of the year (well, 2nd to Habs playoff hockey - favourite if there is no Habs playoff hockey!) and easily above men's Worlds etc for me. But I still don't see how it rates having a full-time coaching staff or that much of an invested effort. It's a really fun tourney, a couple great weeks in mid-winter, but... ? There's a fundamental reality here. There simply are nations that have 25 players who are as good as Canada's 25 best players. There is a single game elimination format. And it doesn't really matter what approach Canada takes, they aren't going to win every time. Or most times anymore. They had an unusually long/lucky string of winning. Followed now by a slightly long/unlucky string of not winning. It's just the way the ball bounces. No need to go to extremes on this.
I tend to agree here. This is Junior and it is single elimination. There is no way you win all the time.

I noticed Sean Simpson coaches the Senior and Junior National programs in Switzerland so I could buy the argument of a full time National Team coach responsible for our under 18, under 20 and Senior teams (Olympics/WC and World Cup if we get back to one). There would be plenty to do and since you are spending the money on staff to get ready for each tourney you may as well have some continuity and make them full time.The length of term and salary could be whatever is negotiated and obviously you get what you pay for.

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Old
01-04-2013, 10:48 AM
  #247
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The pressure on these kids is extrememly high. It makes the coaching all that more important. I agree with the notion that there is a connection between the quality of Canada's coaches and the tournament results over the past eight years. Spott in particular was in way over his head.

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01-04-2013, 11:31 AM
  #248
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It's a big deal for kids to make this team, it has really become a major pressure-filled accomplishment just to get on the team (at least for some of them). I don't see how you avoid that, however, it has just become that marquee an event, for fans and players, and pressure is all part of that. They wanted to get drafted high too. They want to make the NHL. It's all part of the level of the sport they play in, the pressure goes with the territory, and if they have any letdowns after a given hurdle is cleared, that's part of it too. I don't see how you change that, or worry about it. You can't name the team in August without other drawbacks, you can't stop televising the games or telling people to stop being interested in them.

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01-04-2013, 11:56 AM
  #249
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It is and likely always will be a marquee tournament in Canada, so yes, there will also be press coverage that is scaled to that significance.

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01-04-2013, 12:13 PM
  #250
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Yes there is a lot of pressure and as far as I'm concerned that is a good thing not a bad thing. Canadians as a whole are generally acceptable with losing and its nice to see this slowly changing to a higher focus to be the best in the world.

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I agree. The World Juniors wasn't a big deal in the past until Canada strung off that impressive five in a row streak. It seemed that every year the pressure got bigger, there was more marketing and players were participating in more and more advertisements as well. I think it finally began to snap when the streak was snapped a few years back and now the pressure is getting bigger as Canada is expected to redeem themselves from previous years' losses. I think the players would be a bit more loose if they were not scrutinized by the fans and media 24/7. It is the same reason why I think a Canadian team has not won the Stanley Cup for 20 years - too much media pressure for the players.
There are no Canadian teams that vy for the Stanley Cup though. Yes there are teams that are based in Canada but doesn't make them a Canadian team per say.

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