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Old
01-03-2013, 12:34 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
According to some posters, WI shouldn't get a team b/c they don't support the Admirals. Was the support metric used to allow teams in Miami, St. Petersburg, Raliegh, Atlanta, Phoneix, etc, etc, etc, etc.?
Actually, yes.

Raleigh supported the ECHL IceCaps.

Atlanta supported the IHL Knights.

Phoenix has supported several versions of the Roadrunners, including the WHA and IHL.

Columbus supported the ECHL Chill, setting numerous attendance records along the way.

Nashville supported the ECHL Knights.

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01-03-2013, 01:04 PM
  #52
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if the Bucks were not around maybe Milwaukee could support a team

but with the Bucks there no chance

and Madison would be the only other choice, but no way can they support a NHL team, just not enough money and not enough people in this town

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01-03-2013, 01:09 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakkk View Post
So nobody just gives a damn about hockey in Wisconsin???
No, that's not true no matter how much Blackhawkswincup says it. The Badgers have led college hockey in attendance for years consistently drawing over 12,000 per game.

The Admirals, since new ownership took over have averaged 5,718. Up from the mid 4,000s that they drew after the owner died and everything was put in a trust. Considering the Admirals also have to compete with the Bucks, two college basketball teams and an indoor soccer team in the winter for the fan dollar, 5,718 is not bad at all and that's just in Milwaukee and doesn't include people who go to Packers, Badgers (basketball and hockey) and then the Brewers in the summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by this providence View Post
The big problems to me would seem to be:

• Does Wisconsin have the amount of willing corporations that it takes to successfully fill up the higher dollar seats/add sponsorship dollars?

• Wisconsin does not currently have an NHL quality venue.

• Population is too far dispersed throughout the state. Can they support/show to games multiple times a week on a consistent and financially viable rate?

• (Minor) Playing hockey throughout my many years in Minnesota, it seemed like the most dense hockey communities in Wisconsin came out of western WI, as well as in Duluth/Superior area. Has that changed? With Basketball, it's a more accepted sport throughout many areas and is commonly played at many schools throughout the state. That wasn't exactly case with hockey as to how I remember it. Especially in many small Wisconsin towns. Hard to generate interest in a team when it's not really an accepted and truly followed sport.
Some huge corporations just helped out the Bucks and the Bradley Center in a massive way this summer.

BMO Harris bought the naming rights to the Bradley Center and then four local companies bought naming rights to the four arena entries. Kohl's, Miller, Northwestern Mutual and Potawatomi Bingo Casino.

With a few upgrades the Bradley Center could be a quality venue. It was built for an NHL team afterall.

Population is more spread out than say a Minnesota, Michigan or Massachusetts but there are over 2.3 million people within an hour's drive of downtown Milwaukee and that's not including Dane County the second most populous county in the state at around 500,000 which is about 1 hour and 20 minutes away, the Fox Cities (Oshkosh, Appleton) are a little further away than Madison but their 3 county metro is around 400,000 and then of course Green Bay which is around the same distance as Appleton to Milwaukee.

The Brewers and surprisingly the Bucks draw fans from Madison, the Fox Cities and Green Bay. Obviously these are in smaller numbers but they (especially the Brewers) do consistently draw fans from these areas.

As far as high school hockey, it has really grown in outside the immediate area of the Minnesota border. Several teams now compete in the Milwaukee area and they're of much better quality. The Admirals host the "Admirals Cup" every year around Christmas that put 8 area teams in a tournament. The Madison area and the Green Bay area have some solid teams as well and the areas between Green Bay, Madison and Milwaukee are starting to fill in with some teams too.

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01-03-2013, 01:11 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by this providence View Post
The big problems to me would seem to be:

• Does Wisconsin have the amount of willing corporations that it takes to successfully fill up the higher dollar seats/add sponsorship dollars?

• Wisconsin does not currently have an NHL quality venue.

• Population is too far dispersed throughout the state. Can they support/show to games multiple times a week on a consistent and financially viable rate?

• (Minor) Playing hockey throughout my many years in Minnesota, it seemed like the most dense hockey communities in Wisconsin came out of western WI, as well as in Duluth/Superior area. Has that changed? With Basketball, it's a more accepted sport throughout many areas and is commonly played at many schools throughout the state. That wasn't exactly case with hockey as to how I remember it. Especially in many small Wisconsin towns. Hard to generate interest in a team when it's not really an accepted and truly followed sport.
-If they could get Miller or any of the microbreweries in the state to support the team, they'll do fine

-As far as the Bradley Center goes, it's actually better for hockey than it is for basketball, but it could use a few renovations here and there as it is a bit outdated

-If you market an NHL team here as a team that represents the entire state (like the Packers and the Brewers), they'll draw a good amount of support. My older brother, who isn't even into sports that much, said it best when comparing the support for other Wisconsin teams compared to the Bucks. The Packers, Brewers, and Badgers represent the state of Wisconsin. The Bucks represent the city of Milwaukee. If you market the team as Wisconsin's team, they'll be fine.

-As far as high school hockey is concerned, I'm from northeastern Wisconsin, and I can tell you that the teams here are well supported as well in this part of the state, such as Appleton, Fond du Lac, and Green Bay of course. Nowadays, if a small Wisconsin high school doesn't have a team, they try to merge with other small towns or try to merge with a bigger school in the area (i.e. My town, Neenah, is now Neenah/Hortonville/Menasha for hockey as they have absorbed some of the smaller schools in the area in terms of hockey support)

Not to mention that for a state that's never had an NHL team, we can put some quality players on the ice, such as Suter, Kessel, and Pavelski

edit: Ninja'd


Last edited by Bullwine85: 01-03-2013 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Ninja'd
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Old
01-03-2013, 01:17 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
How about Madison?
madison: way too small to hold a team and not enough exogenous population to support it.

hockey in wisconsin OUTSIDE of milwaukee is fairly healthy. hockey inside of milwaukee has grown since i was in youth hockey in the late-80s by a lot but it is still virtually a dead zone in terms of popularity against football, baseball, bowling and shoving beer/cholesterol into your face. youd think it would trend towards a hockey city because of the location but it is by far the worst out of the major cities in this area for hockey popularity. very, very fringe and cultish in milwaukee. people in this area are too lazy to learn the game also. they have the Packers and Playing Catch for 3 hours While Burning 19 Calories during the summer.

as others have stated, hockey outside of milwaukee is fairly well supported. and always was even when i was a kid.

they had their chance in the late 80s when the Pettit's built the Bradley Center for hockey (which is "old" already and the Bucks have been whining about a new arena for a while. not happening.) and it got kaboshed by a few things (Wirtz in Chicago being one of them).

as much as it would be awesome, no way.

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01-03-2013, 01:31 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Also would like to point out for people who think a team in Milwaukee would be instant rival with Hawks ,, Sure its possible

Or it could end up like Milwaukee/Chicago in baskebtall ,, Bull fans haven't given a damn about Bucks or there fans ever

There is literally no rivarly and that is with over 40 years of chance to build it
Horrid example. NBA rivalries are based around the players. Bulls/Pacers and Bulls/Pistons were big when both teams were really good but never more. It's not a sport where franchise's fans hate other franchises, it's all about player hating.

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Old
01-03-2013, 01:34 PM
  #57
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Even if it isn't a rivalry, Illinois Blackhawks fans who couldn't get tickets or couldn't afford tickets to Blackhawks games would snap up tickets to a game in Milwaukee so fast it would be ridiculous.

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01-03-2013, 02:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
Even if it isn't a rivalry, Illinois Blackhawks fans who couldn't get tickets or couldn't afford tickets to Blackhawks games would snap up tickets to a game in Milwaukee so fast it would be ridiculous.
I would love it. I'm in Milwaukee quite often visiting friends. I'm sure they would attend games if there were a team there.

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01-03-2013, 03:44 PM
  #59
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Well, i guess i will have to call Gary up and let him know we all want a NHL team in Wisconsin. I'll just have negociate with him for awhile.

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01-03-2013, 06:31 PM
  #60
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if it were feasible I'm sure Leipold would have a deal in place already--or working really hard on one-- for a Wisconsin NHL team rather than buying the one in MN. Guy loves his home state.

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01-03-2013, 08:46 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
No, that's not true no matter how much Blackhawkswincup says it. The Badgers have led college hockey in attendance for years consistently drawing over 12,000 per game.

The Admirals, since new ownership took over have averaged 5,718. Up from the mid 4,000s that they drew after the owner died and everything was put in a trust. Considering the Admirals also have to compete with the Bucks, two college basketball teams and an indoor soccer team in the winter for the fan dollar, 5,718 is not bad at all and that's just in Milwaukee and doesn't include people who go to Packers, Badgers (basketball and hockey) and then the Brewers in the summer.



Some huge corporations just helped out the Bucks and the Bradley Center in a massive way this summer.

BMO Harris bought the naming rights to the Bradley Center and then four local companies bought naming rights to the four arena entries. Kohl's, Miller, Northwestern Mutual and Potawatomi Bingo Casino.

With a few upgrades the Bradley Center could be a quality venue. It was built for an NHL team afterall.

Population is more spread out than say a Minnesota, Michigan or Massachusetts but there are over 2.3 million people within an hour's drive of downtown Milwaukee and that's not including Dane County the second most populous county in the state at around 500,000 which is about 1 hour and 20 minutes away, the Fox Cities (Oshkosh, Appleton) are a little further away than Madison but their 3 county metro is around 400,000 and then of course Green Bay which is around the same distance as Appleton to Milwaukee.

The Brewers and surprisingly the Bucks draw fans from Madison, the Fox Cities and Green Bay. Obviously these are in smaller numbers but they (especially the Brewers) do consistently draw fans from these areas.

As far as high school hockey, it has really grown in outside the immediate area of the Minnesota border. Several teams now compete in the Milwaukee area and they're of much better quality. The Admirals host the "Admirals Cup" every year around Christmas that put 8 area teams in a tournament. The Madison area and the Green Bay area have some solid teams as well and the areas between Green Bay, Madison and Milwaukee are starting to fill in with some teams too.
what most are forgetting here.... Doesn't Mark Attanasio own/operate both the Brewers and the Admirals, otherwise, the Traditional Brewers glove isn't on the Admiral jerseys

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01-03-2013, 08:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
No, that's not true no matter how much Blackhawkswincup says it. The Badgers have led college hockey in attendance for years consistently drawing over 12,000 per game..
I said hockey is popular in Madison

Milwaukee on other hand it is absolutely not on radar

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01-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #63
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I'd have no problem with it but aren't most folks in Wisconsin Hawks fans?

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01-04-2013, 12:11 AM
  #64
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I think the NHL can work in Wisconsin whether it's Madison or Milwaukee but there are other places the NHL needs to go first before going that route. But if the area wants to put on a push for a team and has all the necessary elements, they should be given the opportunity. I think Seattle, Quebec City, and Houston with their acts together should be given the nod over a Wisconsin team but I feel the NHL would work in Wisconsin.

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01-04-2013, 12:57 AM
  #65
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The mere fact that someone in Wisconsin went on the Internet to search for a hockey related forum to then register and ask a bunch of dudes on the Internet whether Wisconsin is a good hockey destination is a pretty good indication that it is one.

Did that ever happen in Phoenix and Atlanta? Or did a boardroom in New York decide that its market was adequate for investment?

If the NHL had been focusing its efforts where people actually cared about hockey, the NHL could have become NFL North and we would all be watching hockey now with better teams and more intense arenas.

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01-04-2013, 07:10 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
I'd have no problem with it but aren't most folks in Wisconsin Hawks fans?
Most of the Hawks fans I know are either Chicago transplants, or the children of Chicago transplants. If anything they're either Red Wings/Wild fans, or they'll root for teams that have players from Wisconsin on their teams (i.e. San Jose with Pavelski)

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01-04-2013, 09:54 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I think the NHL can work in Wisconsin whether it's Madison or Milwaukee but there are other places the NHL needs to go first before going that route. But if the area wants to put on a push for a team and has all the necessary elements, they should be given the opportunity. I think Seattle, Quebec City, and Houston with their acts together should be given the nod over a Wisconsin team but I feel the NHL would work in Wisconsin.

Houston will just be another hot weather non-passionate fan base, i dont think that would be a good idea

Seattle, they may have a good following.

Quebec City, i dont much about. But just by being in Canada it will probably do well.

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01-04-2013, 09:55 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Bullwine85 View Post
Most of the Hawks fans I know are either Chicago transplants, or the children of Chicago transplants. If anything they're either Red Wings/Wild fans, or they'll root for teams that have players from Wisconsin on their teams (i.e. San Jose with Pavelski)
Very true.

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01-04-2013, 10:13 AM
  #69
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I'd have no problem with it but aren't most folks in Wisconsin Hawks fans?
It will take time to build a true fan base. There will be the people that support them right away, but like Ottawa in may take a generation or so to get some big fan numbers going. Ottawa is still 50% Leafs 33% Habs territory. But they are inching forward.

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01-04-2013, 10:26 AM
  #70
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According to some posters, WI shouldn't get a team b/c they don't support the Admirals. Was the support metric used to allow teams in Miami, St. Petersburg, Raliegh, Atlanta, Phoneix, etc, etc, etc, etc.?
Check the Panthers' attendance, and then compare it to the Admirals, and then get back to this argument.

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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
Kind of like Phoenix - yet they have a franchise... There is no way a team in Milwaukee would do worse than the Coyotes over the last 16 years.
Why? Until the Balsillie case, Phoenix had solid attendance numbers. And it's a significantly larger city, which means that even if hockey isn't as big a deal, you can still have more fans.

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The mere fact that someone in Wisconsin went on the Internet to search for a hockey related forum to then register and ask a bunch of dudes on the Internet whether Wisconsin is a good hockey destination is a pretty good indication that it is one.

Did that ever happen in Phoenix and Atlanta? Or did a boardroom in New York decide that its market was adequate for investment?
With Phoenix, the Winnipeg Jets were purchased by an ownership group that wanted to move them to Phoenix. Atlanta was an expansion team that was bid for. You see, hockey teams have to have owners. And the owners choose the locations. The NHL doesn't say "We're relocating the Panthers" and tell the Panthers owners to deal with it.

Quote:
If the NHL had been focusing its efforts where people actually cared about hockey, the NHL could have become NFL North and we would all be watching hockey now with better teams and more intense arenas.
Or, or, or, how about this. If the players hadn't hired someone with the specific purpose of not reaching an agreement in order to villainize the ownership and hopefully eventually break the cap entirely, we'd be watching hockey.

NFL North? Are you suggesting the NHL would have been more profitable if it were a 30-team league based primarily in Canada? Highly unlikely.

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01-04-2013, 11:07 AM
  #71
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If the NHL had been focusing its efforts where people actually cared about hockey, the NHL could have become NFL North and we would all be watching hockey now with better teams and more intense arenas.

Or, or, or, how about this. If the players hadn't hired someone with the specific purpose of not reaching an agreement in order to villainize the ownership and hopefully eventually break the cap entirely, we'd be watching hockey.

NFL North? Are you suggesting the NHL would have been more profitable if it were a 30-team league based primarily in Canada? Highly unlikely.

No, i think he is suggesting that if Wi had a team it could be like the NFC north (NFL) Vikings, lions, packers, and Bears only in the NHL it would be Wild, Wings, Wi team , and Hawks( yes, i do understand that is not how it is set up right now, with the wild being in a different conf). Im guessing you dont watch the NFL, the NFC north is a very good conference and pretty much every game is a rivial. Which if it was translated to the NHL if would be a great thing for the midwest region of hockey.

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01-04-2013, 11:50 AM
  #72
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With Phoenix, the Winnipeg Jets were purchased by an ownership group that wanted to move them to Phoenix. Atlanta was an expansion team that was bid for. You see, hockey teams have to have owners. And the owners choose the locations. The NHL doesn't say "We're relocating the Panthers" and tell the Panthers owners to deal with it.
This fact gets glossed over way too easily around here.

Phoenix has a team because once upon a time a man bought a NHL franchise and put them there. It wasn't an order mandated from above.

Most of these places that complain about 90s expansion argue in favor of locations that never put forth a bid. You're not getting a team without putting in a bid for one.

Milwaukee doesn't have a team right now because they don't have an interested owner and they backed out of their one bid for an expansion team early back in 1990 (finding the NHL's requirements of 10,000 season tickets and a $50 million expansion fee "unrealistic" according to Lloyd Pettit).

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01-04-2013, 01:35 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
what most are forgetting here.... Doesn't Mark Attanasio own/operate both the Brewers and the Admirals, otherwise, the Traditional Brewers glove isn't on the Admiral jerseys
No Attanasio doesn't own or operate the team. Well I shouldn't say own, he owns a minority share of the team. The principal owner is Harris Turer who owns a minority share of the Brewers. That's where the cross promotion comes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I said hockey is popular in Madison

Milwaukee on other hand it is absolutely not on radar
I see you didn't bother reading on where I said since new ownership took over they have averaged almost 6,000 per game while competing in the winter with two college basketball teams, an indoor soccer team, an NBA team and out of the city the Badgers and the Packers.

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01-04-2013, 04:49 PM
  #74
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I've wanted an NHL team in Wisconsin forever. Can they support one? Maybe.

The state's interest in hockey has increased significantly over the last 15 years. I grew up playing hockey in Wisconsin, and usually had to drive ~2 hours for most games. Since then, they've built new rinks in a bunch of cities, and many more High Schools actually have a team now. (It used to just be mostly regional AAA select teams).

Either way, I say Wisconsin is a better home for hockey than Phoenix, Atlanta, and North Carolina.

As far as the, mentality of a city only being able to support one Pro team. Hockey has the advantage that during most of it's season people have nothing else to do, other than basketball. Especially in Wisconsin.

I don't think the MLS has much overlap with hockey fans...


Last edited by ProfessorMcFatty: 01-04-2013 at 04:51 PM. Reason: I'm retarded, forgot about basketball
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01-04-2013, 09:25 PM
  #75
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wisconsin could very well work as an NHl market. If you are interested in growing the game, why not put it where it actually gets cold in winter. i'm aware of the attempt by the pettits that was back before the cap was in place. having the cap imo makes it easier for newer eams as they have an idea of what thier costs have to be. The admirals do well for an AHl team, and almost always make the Calder Cup playoffs, they won it all in 2004 and came up just short in 2006. whether you move the Admirals up to the pros or keep them as the Farm team, either way, the admirals should be kept.

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