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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:27 AM
  #351
Lorenzo1000
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OK here's the issue I have with the whole penalty for hiding HRR issue. Has any team ever even been accused of hiding HRR since the HRR related cap came into existence? I believe that they actually had the paperwork for a week as the league says and it was either overlooked by whoever the PA has proofing the legal docs or intentionally held back as ammunition by the Fehr bros.

Fehr is a master manipulator and he has a slew of under qualified, inexperienced and "emotional" based negotiators on hand. It's so easy for him to spin them into a frenzy of "us against the evil NHL owners" that it's just patently ridiculous.

I just don't get the whole situation at all. What did the players gain by hiring Fehr? They have had their "salad days" (look it up if you don't know) over the term of the last CBA. Salaries have risen to levels they've never seen before, HRR has increased every year and somehow they hire the one guy who is going to blow it all up and ruin the partnership they established with the league and the owners?

Why are the players actually even involved in the negotiations? This is a business negotiation. They should have labour lawyers negotiating for them and report to a player's committee...sorry but Campoli, Doan, Hainsey, Parros et al are not qualified to do this work.


Last edited by Lorenzo1000: 01-04-2013 at 09:38 AM.
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Old
01-04-2013, 09:29 AM
  #352
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by smithy View Post
This is why I'm surprised the NHLPA is pushing so hard for a higher cap. For every vet getting $4.8M instead of $6M, there are ten guys making $1M and getting $800K who would (in the lower cap world) still have $1M because there would have been no need to reach into escrow. Higher cap in an escrow world allows the players who are currently signed to subsidize the unsigned players to receive larger contracts. Most of their membership should be opposed to this.

So, I guess the NHLPA must be confident that the $65M cap would not reach the escrow situation.
It doesn't just have to be 1 guy, that was just the example. Let's say a team is at $59MM and has room for 2 more players, that is $3MM each. It basically, helps the mid-level salary guys.

The top guys are going to get hit the hardest in escrow in terms of actual $, the bottom guys are going to get close to the minimum regardless of the numbers. Where it helps is the guys in the middle. At a $60MM cap, a middle of the road guy might get $2MM. With each team having an extra $5MM to spend, it could easily move him up to $3MM. They would need to lose at least 33% on escrow in order for that player to lose out. If they were losing 33% at $65MM, they are certainly going to be losing money at $60MM.

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01-04-2013, 09:29 AM
  #353
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Adator says today won't go well.

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:30 AM
  #354
patnyrnyg
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Surprise, surprise. Although I am not sure if Panacio is credible. Have heard mixed things about him.

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
not to spoil anything, but Bill Daly told me he does not have very high expectations going into today's meetings after yesterday.

https://twitter.com/tpanotchCSN

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01-04-2013, 09:31 AM
  #355
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adater ‏@adater
Report: NHL season to be cancelled Thursday if no deal by then... http://sulia.com/my_thoughts/4e85ba9...source=twitter
https://twitter.com/adater/status/287219342985265152

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:32 AM
  #356
AtlantaWhaler
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Adator says today won't go well.
Meh...IMO, this will be all show. In the final 6 days or so, neither side is going to tell the media that things are moving along great. This is going to be a deadline deal and the sides will take every second to scrape every penny they can. At this point, it won't make a difference if they settle today, or Jan. 10th (Apparently the deadline). May as well posture.

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:32 AM
  #357
OriginJM
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i wonder how many times they same discussions have gone on here at HFBoards during this process

we truly dont know anything, and i doubt a lot of the insiders do too besides if things go well or not

go read a book or take a jog, there are better things to do than F5ing to be the first to post an ambiguous tweet

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:32 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
James Quinn was already working for the PA. He is now responsible for defending the PA against the NHL lawsuit and whatever else the PA decides. The two sides have to be in court on Monday morning. Quinn will be there.
Quinn is the lawyer all sports union uses. He's worked for NFL and NBA players before.

People mock the owners for using a lockout 'script', but this guy is part of the decertification 'script' unions use these days.

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01-04-2013, 09:32 AM
  #359
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Yep, as much as I like the Stars (both teams) I can't wait to GTFO of this hell hole.
I've got two more years here.....then back to the Mother Land. Counting the days.

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01-04-2013, 09:33 AM
  #360
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by Lorenzo1000 View Post
OK here's the issue I have with the whole penalty for hiding HRR issue. Has any team ever even been accused of hiding HRR since the HRR related cap came into existence? I believe that they actually had the paperwork for a week as the league says and it was either overlooked by whoever the PA has proofing the legal docs or intentionally held back as ammunition by the Fehr bros.

Fehr is a master manipulator and he has a slew of under qualified, inexperienced and "emotional" based negotiators on hand. It's so easy for him to spin them into a frenzy of "us against the evil NHL owners" that it's just patently ridiculous.

I just don't get the whole situation at all. What did the players gain by hiring Fehr? They have had their "salad days" (look it up if you don't know) over the term of the last CBA. Salaries have risen to levels they've never seen before, HRR has increased every year and somehow they hire the one guy who is going to blow it all up and ruin the partnership they established with the league and the owners.

Why are the players actually even involved in the negotiations? They should have labour lawyers negotiating for them and report to a player's committee...sorry but Campoli, Doan, Hainsey, Parros et al are not qualified to do this work.
Not sure if any team has been accused, but logic says with stiffer penalties it is less likely teams would try. Would you seriously put it past any team to cook the books?

Why aren't the 4 players qualified? Not sure on the other 3, but Parros did go to Princeton. They do not admit stupid people.

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01-04-2013, 09:34 AM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzo1000 View Post
OK here's the issue I have with the whole penalty for hiding HRR issue. Has any team ever even been accused of hiding HRR since the HRR related cap came into existence? I believe that they actually had the paperwork for a week as the league says and it was either overlooked by whoever the PA has proofing the legal docs or intentionally held back as ammunition by the Fehr bros.

Fehr is a master manipulator and he has a slew of under qualified, inexperienced and "emotional" based negotiators on hand. It's so easy for him to spin them into a frenzy of "us against the evil NHL owners" that it's just patently ridiculous.

I just don't get the whole situation at all. What did the players gain by hiring Fehr? They have had their "salad days" (look it up if you don't know) over the term of the last CBA. Salaries have risen to levels they've never seen before, HRR has increased every year and somehow they hire the one guy who is going to blow it all up and ruin the partnership they established with the league and the owners.

Why are the players actually even involved in the negotiations? They should have labour lawyers negotiating for them and report to a player's committee...sorry but Campoli, Doan, Hainsey, Parros et al are not qualified to do this work.
I somewhat agree on some Parts of this, but it seems odd that you highlight Parros as one of the "unqualified". If any player is qualified to be there, it's him.

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01-04-2013, 09:34 AM
  #362
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I am so excited to see the blowup on the PA side once they cancel the season because Fehr miscalculated.

Considering how stupid the players have been with their comments on twitter, I'm betting we'll see some real fireworks. The whole PA will crumble.

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01-04-2013, 09:34 AM
  #363
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I was 100% certain there was going to be a season..now I'm worried.

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:35 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
I wish I could see the look on the players faces when Bettman cancels the season on January 12th. (if he really does it)
I think he will.

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01-04-2013, 09:35 AM
  #365
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Didnt we already know that tho? Im fine with that. PA thinks they can keep playing games, itll be funny to see how they react once the plug is pulled.

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:36 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I was 100% certain there was going to be a season..now I'm worried.
There will be a season. They're just huffing and puffing trying to squeeze something more out of the other side.

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01-04-2013, 09:37 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
James Quinn was already working for the PA. He is now responsible for defending the PA against the NHL lawsuit and whatever else the PA decides. The two sides have to be in court on Monday morning. Quinn will be there.
If they submit the DOI on the weekend, then Fehr will no longer be permitted to represent the PA and it will be Quinn and whoever else from his firm. Since I really believe that Fehr either cannot or will not reach an negotiated agreement, and if this lawyer and the judge want to work toward a swift settlement,things may take a more positive turn.

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01-04-2013, 09:37 AM
  #368
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Soooooo this week goes according to our typical schedule. Tuesday/Wednesday - full optimism. Tight-rope Thursday. All things go to hell Friday.

We fall for the same cycle every time, guys. Why?

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01-04-2013, 09:38 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Soooooo this week goes according to our typical schedule. Tuesday/Wednesday - full optimism. Tight-rope Thursday. All things go to hell Friday.

We fall for the same cycle every time, guys. Why?
Well at least this will be the last time, one way or another.

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01-04-2013, 09:38 AM
  #370
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I hate when people say they aren't going into the day's negotiations with high expectations. Why are you negotiating then? If you come out of the negotiations with low expectations, fine, but going into them that way is completely the wrong attitude to take.

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01-04-2013, 09:38 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Not sure if any team has been accused, but logic says with stiffer penalties it is less likely teams would try. Would you seriously put it past any team to cook the books?

Why aren't the 4 players qualified? Not sure on the other 3, but Parros did go to Princeton. They do not admit stupid people.
Washington and Nashville were among several teams cited for not reporting all HRR. Not sure what happened to them though.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...wGIN_blog.html

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01-04-2013, 09:39 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I was 100% certain there was going to be a season..now I'm worried.
For me, once mid December came and went, I became pretty confident the season would be canceled. I think both sides know this but continue to play the game of chicken until Jan. 10th.

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01-04-2013, 09:40 AM
  #373
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I somewhat agree on some Parts of this, but it seems odd that you highlight Parros as one of the "unqualified". If any player is qualified to be there, it's him.
What are his qualifications?

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:40 AM
  #374
BK201
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Soooooo this week goes according to our typical schedule. Tuesday/Wednesday - full optimism. Tight-rope Thursday. All things go to hell Friday.

We fall for the same cycle every time, guys. Why?
We just want it do bad and it's kind of exciting to follow.

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:40 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Soooooo this week goes according to our typical schedule. Tuesday/Wednesday - full optimism. Tight-rope Thursday. All things go to hell Friday.

We fall for the same cycle every time, guys. Why?
Wonderful Wednesdays
Tight rope Thursdays
Failing Fridays
Sad Saturdays
Solemn Sundays
Maybe Mondays
Talking Tuesdays

Rinse, repeat

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