HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

Bills Off-Season 2013 Style (Wilson, Barnett, McGee released, T Jackson re-signed)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-04-2013, 01:01 AM
  #26
buffalowing88
Registered User
 
buffalowing88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
IIRC, it's because his family will pay fewer taxes if they sell it after he passes, could be wrong though.
I have heard that too. Makes sense. That being said, if we settle on Whisenhunt we are just asking for a sub .500 record. Lovie, Horton, Kelly, hell even the guy from Syracuse would be more refreshing than taking a coach who rode on Warner's coattails for two years. Horton is really starting to turn me into a fan with his quotes and further research into his history. That is a man you build your coaching regime around.

buffalowing88 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:42 AM
  #27
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
I have heard that too. Makes sense. That being said, if we settle on Whisenhunt we are just asking for a sub .500 record. Lovie, Horton, Kelly, hell even the guy from Syracuse would be more refreshing than taking a coach who rode on Warner's coattails for two years. Horton is really starting to turn me into a fan with his quotes and further research into his history. That is a man you build your coaching regime around.
Yeah, but it won't happnn.

Shoulda just kept Chan...

SFTC Addict is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 05:34 AM
  #28
SuperNintendoChalmrs
Registered User
 
SuperNintendoChalmrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
IIRC, it's because his family will pay fewer taxes if they sell it after he passes, could be wrong though.
The tax ramifications aren't as severe if the spouse ends up with the team. So, Mary Wilson will basically be the Lady Jane Grey of the Buffalo Bills until the team is sold to a new owner.

SuperNintendoChalmrs is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 06:59 AM
  #29
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,019
vCash: 50
People love talking about Whisenhunt's 45-51 record. Anyone know what Belichick's career record was after 96 regular season games?















41-55. Then Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady happened. Then, all of a sudden, Belichick became a coaching genius. As the old saying goes, "It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's." Put in other words, it's the players, stupid! And until the Bills get the players, all this huffing and puffing about who's going to try to shine that turd of a roster doesn't mean all that much.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 08:28 AM
  #30
HockeyH3aven
#Flynnsanity
 
HockeyH3aven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Buffalo NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
People love talking about Whisenhunt's 45-51 record. Anyone know what Belichick's career record was after 96 regular season games?

41-55. Then Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady happened. Then, all of a sudden, Belichick became a coaching genius. As the old saying goes, "It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's." Put in other words, it's the players, stupid! And until the Bills get the players, all this huffing and puffing about who's going to try to shine that turd of a roster doesn't mean all that much.
So if that coach doesn't matter, why don't the Bills just keep Chan Gailey?

I'm not going to argue a great QB can fix all woes, but a great coach can do the same. There's no point in accepting a mediocre coach just because you'll somehow magically find Tom Brady reincarnated and win multiple superbowls with a penguin as your teams head coach.

Also, whenever people bring up Belichick, I remind them he went 11-5 with Matt freaking Cassell, and Cassell through for over 4,000 yards with the Patriots. Now he's with KC and he's a bum.

HockeyH3aven is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #31
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,019
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
So if that coach doesn't matter, why don't the Bills just keep Chan Gailey?
I'm not speaking in absolutes, so don't try to pin me to them. I think personnel is much, much, much more important than coaching. I certainly think there are good coaches and bad coaches. I think you can win with bad coaching/game-management (See Reid, Andy), especially if you have great personnel or a good/great QB (of which Buffalo has neither). I don't think you can win with poor personnel, regardless of the coach.

Buffalo had a bad coach and, overall, subpar personnel. My point to Bills fans is that you can bring back Lombardi or Bill Walsh and it won't matter if the players aren't of better quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
I'm not going to argue a great QB can fix all woes, but a great coach can do the same. There's no point in accepting a mediocre coach just because you'll somehow magically find Tom Brady reincarnated and win multiple superbowls with a penguin as your teams head coach.
Who said Whisenhunt is a mediocre coach? You? Would you have said Belichick is a mediocre coach after his 36-44 record in Cleveland? If this anti-Whis campaign in Buffalo is any indication, most probably would have. Would you have passed on John Fox because he went 2-14 in his final season in Carolina, and 73-71 overall? Would you have chalked up Tom Coughlin to an uninspiring choice after six seasons because he was merely 49-47 in Jacksonville?

Coaches careers aren't set in stone after six seasons. All I hear from my WNY friends are silly-ass arguments like "He lost to Gailey"--yeah, and Whis beat Belichick if we want to rely on one-game samples--or "Enough with the Pittsburgh connections"--people wouldn't hire Tomlin or Cowher if they became available tomorrow? I don't visit Bills' boards much, but I still haven't heard many good reasons why hiring Whis would be a bad idea. Is he a poor in-game coach? Do his teams quit on him? Are his tendencies terrible? I want to hear more of that, and less of the bumper-sticker analysis like "He lost to Chan."

Quote:
Also, whenever people bring up Belichick, I remind them he went 11-5 with Matt freaking Cassell, and Cassell through for over 4,000 yards with the Patriots. Now he's with KC and he's a bum.
Which he never would've had the opportunity to do if you were running things, because you wouldn't have hired him after Cleveland. Also, Minnesota won 10 games with Ponder, but I bet they won't sustain that; Cassell meanwhile was playing with a roster that went 18-1 the year prior.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 09:35 AM
  #32
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,237
vCash: 500
Awards:
It is the same old story -- on the field, they need more impact players in key roles, better depth, and fresh coaching. Upstairs, they need direction and a willingness to do what it takes to win.

So basically, the same thing as 80% of their off-seasons since they've been a franchise...

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 09:59 AM
  #33
aceface33
Registered User
 
aceface33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Herkimer, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 7,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'm not speaking in absolutes, so don't try to pin me to them. I think personnel is much, much, much more important than coaching. I certainly think there are good coaches and bad coaches. I think you can win with bad coaching/game-management (See Reid, Andy), especially if you have great personnel or a good/great QB (of which Buffalo has neither). I don't think you can win with poor personnel, regardless of the coach.

Buffalo had a bad coach and, overall, subpar personnel. My point to Bills fans is that you can bring back Lombardi or Bill Walsh and it won't matter if the players aren't of better quality.



Who said Whisenhunt is a mediocre coach? You? Would you have said Belichick is a mediocre coach after his 36-44 record in Cleveland? If this anti-Whis campaign in Buffalo is any indication, most probably would have. Would you have passed on John Fox because he went 2-14 in his final season in Carolina, and 73-71 overall? Would you have chalked up Tom Coughlin to an uninspiring choice after six seasons because he was merely 49-47 in Jacksonville?

Coaches careers aren't set in stone after six seasons. All I hear from my WNY friends are silly-ass arguments like "He lost to Gailey"--yeah, and Whis beat Belichick if we want to rely on one-game samples--or "Enough with the Pittsburgh connections"--people wouldn't hire Tomlin or Cowher if they became available tomorrow? I don't visit Bills' boards much, but I still haven't heard many good reasons why hiring Whis would be a bad idea. Is he a poor in-game coach? Do his teams quit on him? Are his tendencies terrible? I want to hear more of that, and less of the bumper-sticker analysis like "He lost to Chan."



Which he never would've had the opportunity to do if you were running things, because you wouldn't have hired him after Cleveland. Also, Minnesota won 10 games with Ponder, but I bet they won't sustain that; Cassell meanwhile was playing with a roster that went 18-1 the year prior.
So what are you getting at then, do you think Whisenhunt is a good choice? If so, sell me on him. I'd like to be excited.

aceface33 is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 10:12 AM
  #34
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,019
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
So what are you getting at then, do you think Whisenhunt is a good choice? If so, sell me on him. I'd like to be excited.
Honestly, haven't watched enough Cardinals games to determine whether he's a good or bad choice. But the taglines of his career record, a loss against Chan Gailey, and that he used to be a part of the Steelers organization should not disqualify him, as it seemingly has to many. I got the sense that White and Harrington attacked him early on, and everyone piggybacked on it.

Are there people who believe he should have won more with Ryan Lindley/John Skelton?

Zip15 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 10:31 AM
  #35
Myllz
Pavelski Lite
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 12,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Honestly, haven't watched enough Cardinals games to determine whether he's a good or bad choice. But the taglines of his career record, a loss against Chan Gailey, and that he used to be a part of the Steelers organization should not disqualify him, as it seemingly has to many. I got the sense that White and Harrington attacked him early on, and everyone piggybacked on it.

Are there people who believe he should have won more with Ryan Lindley/John Skelton?
Probably not, but at the same time he's at least somewhat responsible for the team makeup in Arizona. He did have six seasons there, so the makeup of that team has a lot of his fingerprints on it.

The main issue with Whisenhunt is that he's just more of the same. An average to below average pick with some kind of "connection" to guys in the front office. No excitement, nothing to get overly hopeful about. Just another guy they went with when other "sexier" names were available. I realize the sexy pick doesn't always work out, but after over a decade of garbage this team desperately needs a sexy choice just to keep people interested.

Myllz is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 10:56 AM
  #36
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,019
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Probably not, but at the same time he's at least somewhat responsible for the team makeup in Arizona. He did have six seasons there, so the makeup of that team has a lot of his fingerprints on it.
And I suppose we need more information about the extent of his input in personnel decisions. Did he want the Kolb trade? Did he sign off on Levi Brown at #5 when Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Lawrence Timmons, and Revis were there for the taking? On the whole, they didn't draft well in Arizona while he was there, including taking two oft-injured RB's (Wells, Williams) in the first two rounds over a span of a few years.There were a lot of poor personnel decisions in the desert and they need to do their due diligence to determine how much he had to do with those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
The main issue with Whisenhunt is that he's just more of the same. An average to below average pick with some kind of "connection" to guys in the front office. No excitement, nothing to get overly hopeful about. Just another guy they went with when other "sexier" names were available. I realize the sexy pick doesn't always work out, but after over a decade of garbage this team desperately needs a sexy choice just to keep people interested.
I can understand that. Still, at the end of the day, you have to go with the guy you think will do the best job, not the one that's going to get the fanbase riled up.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #37
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,469
vCash: 500
You know, Zip, I was wondering when your "Buffalo fans are sheep" act would rear itself again, but I think you're right here.

It has nothing to do with Wisenhunt's performance as a coach over the last six seasons, his parallels with a long list of awful cronies who took up residence at 1BD, or the alternatives with more innovative or successful recent track records and everything to do with a couple talking heads telling the fans what to think.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 11:02 AM
  #38
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,019
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
You know, Zip, I was wondering when your "Buffalo fans are sheep" act would rear itself again, but I think you're right here.

It has nothing to do with Wisenhunt's performance as a coach over the last six seasons, his parallels with a long list of awful cronies who took up residence at 1BD, or the alternatives with more innovative or successful recent track records and everything to do with a couple talking heads telling the fans what to think.
I think most fans are sheep. Not just Buffalo fans. It's not exclusive to the region. And for it having nothing to do with Whisenhut's record during his Arizona tenure, Bills fans sure are citing it a lot as a reason not to hire the guy, don't you think?

Zip15 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 11:09 AM
  #39
HockeyH3aven
#Flynnsanity
 
HockeyH3aven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Buffalo NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I think most fans are sheep. Not just Buffalo fans. It's not exclusive to the region. And for it having nothing to do with Whisenhut's record during his Arizona tenure, Bills fans sure are citing it a lot as a reason not to hire the guy, don't you think?
Pretty sure that entire section was sarcasm.

HockeyH3aven is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 11:15 AM
  #40
New Sabres Captain
ForFriendshipDikembe
 
New Sabres Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 38,012
vCash: 500
It should be noted that Lovie Smith's record isn't great lately either. 1 playoffs in the last 5 years, an offense that has been...mediocre at best, questionable OC choices, etc. He's got baggage just like Whisenhunt.

But he's considered to be a decent if not preferred choice by most fans. Record is only a small part of it.

Yes Arizona's personnel on offense sucked. But Whisenhunt is an offensive coach, he should have some say on the matter. Maybe he'd do all right, but I think given the other options the Bills would be better off picking a Lovie Smith, or a Ray Horton.

New Sabres Captain is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 11:16 AM
  #41
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,019
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Pretty sure that entire section was sarcasm.
I'll put it more artfully: I don't think many people who immediately convicted him on the 45-51 career record--and I don't care what anyone says, many did and it has become one of the foremost arguments against him that I've read--put much legwork into comparing him against many other successful coaches in this league in their first six seasons. Many coaches now considered to be good coaches were at or around .500 in that timespan.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 11:45 AM
  #42
Myllz
Pavelski Lite
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 12,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I can understand that. Still, at the end of the day, you have to go with the guy you think will do the best job, not the one that's going to get the fanbase riled up.
Which just underlines the bigger issue, and that is I have zero faith in any of the guys making the decision as to who will do the best job.

Myllz is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 12:03 PM
  #43
Tim Murray
HoF Turd Shiner
 
Tim Murray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 4,344
vCash: 500
I just want someone competent. Frankly I think Gailey could have won if we had a QB who could win games. IMO there are very few coaches that actually make a discernible difference once they reach the competent level.

Hire someone who who has experience and won't **** a new QB up. That's all I care about right now.

For the record, I like Whiz and Smith here. Either one is fine for me. I'm also interested in McCoy, but less so.

The QB position and someone who won't ruin a new one is all I'm focused on right now.

Tim Murray is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 12:07 PM
  #44
dma0034
Registered User
 
dma0034's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,753
vCash: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
It should be noted that Lovie Smith's record isn't great lately either. 1 playoffs in the last 5 years, an offense that has been...mediocre at best, questionable OC choices, etc. He's got baggage just like Whisenhunt.

But he's considered to be a decent if not preferred choice by most fans. Record is only a small part of it.

Yes Arizona's personnel on offense sucked. But Whisenhunt is an offensive coach, he should have some say on the matter. Maybe he'd do all right, but I think given the other options the Bills would be better off picking a Lovie Smith, or a Ray Horton.
Exactly what I was about to say. I don't see a massive difference in the two (obviously other than one is an OC and one is a DC). Both have one playoff appearance in the last 6 years (one Superbowl). Whisenhunt did it without a great defense or a running game and Lovie Smith did it with a Rock solid Defense and Special Teams. Whisenhunt should be excused for what happened to Arizona this year.... bad QBs but also maybe the worst OL in the game.... Lovie Smith hasn't done anything this year that proves he is a better coach. His team relied on turnovers (and as Bills fans can recall from last year those have more to do with luck). Cutler throwing to Marshall every play (and Forte in the backfield?) Why wasn't this team in the playoffs? They're better than the Vikings.... they underachieved plain and simple.

dma0034 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 12:24 PM
  #45
WhoIsJimBob
Circle the Bandwagon
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,592
vCash: 500
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...ory?id=4797666

Quote:
This feature appears in the January 11, 2010 issue of ESPN The Magazine.

There must be something wrong, a fatal flaw in the research that led me here. Because, according to the best data available, gleaned from multiple studies, the unassuming man sitting opposite me in Philadelphia on a late-December afternoon -- the one sporting a Philadelphia Eagles hat over his thinning brown hair -- could morph into the next great NFL coach.

The regular season is nearly over, which means the season of firing and hiring will soon begin. In the coming weeks, six teams are likely to make head-coaching changes. This year's candidate crop -- more than any in recent memory -- seems loaded with talent: big-name free agents like Bill Cowher and Mike Shanahan, and hot assistants like New Orleans Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and Minnesota Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier. It seems virtually impossible for needy front offices to whiff with any new hire. Yet many owners will probably do just that. Unless, of course, they rely on cold, hard data to make their decisions.

Don't laugh.

Over the past few years, a number of NFL teams and independent researchers have been working hard to devise a quantifiable method for finding a great coach. In analyzing more than 100 bench bosses, they have considered the presence of every imaginable factor, from Super Bowl victories to experience as a pro player to coaching trees to race.

But in the end, the majority of the most successful NFL headmen -- past and present -- have possessed at least one of the following four characteristics:

1. They were between ages 41 and 49.

2. They had at least 11 years of NFL coaching experience.

3. They were assistants on teams that won at least 50 games over a five-year span.

4. They had only one previous NFL head-coaching gig.

Accordingly, I applied those conclusions to this year's assistants and most-discussed candidates, looking for guys who met all four of the criteria. My research led to a man who's not on any owner's radar: Marty Mornhinweg.


That's right. The same coach whose record at the helm of the 2001 and 2002 Lions was a laughable 5-27. The same offensive genius who benched Charlie Batch in favor of Ty Detmer (who repaid that show of faith by throwing seven picks in his first start). The same strategic mastermind who once won an overtime coin toss and elected to kick off. (Sounds ridiculous, but reams of convincing data prove otherwise.) But before you snicker, take a long look at the 14-page study on coaching hires that the Eagles commissioned 10 years ago or at the 50-page report the San Francisco 49ers compiled in 2005. Better yet, peruse a 72-page analysis on the 84 NFL head coaches since 1992 conducted by two New York University researchers.

All of these documents point to a guy very much like Mornhinweg. For starters, the 47-year-old has spent 15 years in the league, including the past four as Eagles' offensive coordinator. According to Robert Boland, the sports management prof who spearheaded that 2007 NYU study, those two data points represent the ideal intersection of age (41-49) and NFL coaching experience (at least 11 years). Boland found that these coaches win more often than their younger -- and older -- counterparts; he included in his study Cowher, Shanahan, Bill Belichick and Mike Holmgren, who each won Super Bowls under those circumstances. The reasoning is simple: A coach in his 40s with more than a decade of NFL experience has the ideal mix of managerial competence and personal confidence to lead a team. He's young enough to relate to players but old enough to command respect.
I wonder if anything has changed in the past two years....

Well, other than MM turning 50yo. LOL

WhoIsJimBob is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #46
Myllz
Pavelski Lite
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 12,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Exactly what I was about to say. I don't see a massive difference in the two (obviously other than one is an OC and one is a DC). Both have one playoff appearance in the last 6 years (one Superbowl). Whisenhunt did it without a great defense or a running game and Lovie Smith did it with a Rock solid Defense and Special Teams. Whisenhunt should be excused for what happened to Arizona this year.... bad QBs but also maybe the worst OL in the game.... Lovie Smith hasn't done anything this year that proves he is a better coach. His team relied on turnovers (and as Bills fans can recall from last year those have more to do with luck). Cutler throwing to Marshall every play (and Forte in the backfield?) Why wasn't this team in the playoffs? They're better than the Vikings.... they underachieved plain and simple.
Why should he be excused from the makeup of a team he's been in charge of for six seasons? He's not the GM, but Arizona's roster is still partially his responsibility.

Myllz is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 12:51 PM
  #47
Myllz
Pavelski Lite
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 12,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham
Based on info I've gathered, Bills-Chip Kelly interview seems to be a token gesture from both parties.
What a shock.

Myllz is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:11 PM
  #48
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,029
vCash: 500
Just want a coach who doesn't act like we're at a WAKE every Sunday.

SFTC Addict is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #49
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
It should be noted that Lovie Smith's record isn't great lately either. 1 playoffs in the last 5 years, an offense that has been...mediocre at best, questionable OC choices, etc. He's got baggage just like Whisenhunt.

But he's considered to be a decent if not preferred choice by most fans. Record is only a small part of it.

Yes Arizona's personnel on offense sucked. But Whisenhunt is an offensive coach, he should have some say on the matter. Maybe he'd do all right, but I think given the other options the Bills would be better off picking a Lovie Smith, or a Ray Horton.
6 years actually.

SFTC Addict is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:13 PM
  #50
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,029
vCash: 500
If they do get lovie...any interest in Urlacher?

SFTC Addict is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.