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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:12 PM
  #676
Scottyk9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
I`m sure every GM has at least 1 contract they regret as I`m sure every team has 1 contract where the player isn`t playing anywhere near it`s value.
I can't think of any contract like that on the Devils ?

I know the fans aren't thrilled with Tallinder but Lou LOVES him and Deboer is extremely high on him too.

Obviously depending on the cap number and the amount of young D prospects the Devils have knocking on the door for a spot I could see a D man bought out if Lou goes after a expensive UFA next summer.

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01-04-2013, 12:13 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
Towels being an argument point is believable. The players demanded a minimum thread count for hotel sheets as well...this is what some of this crap comes down to
Come on now, lets not spread stuff like this.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:13 PM
  #678
Stuck in Socal
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You do realize they are not even negotiating right now. The mediation is simply each side complaining to a mediator all alone. As I've said before a deal only gets reached here after one side caves in. There is no middle ground. I don't see what the difference between today and next week is. Both sides have dig in for the long haul.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:14 PM
  #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
I can't think of any contract like that on the Devils ?

I know the fans aren't thrilled with Tallinder but Lou LOVES him and Deboer is extremely high on him too.

Obviously depending on the cap number and the amount of young D prospects the Devils have knocking on the door for a spot I could see a D man bought out if Lou goes after a expensive UFA next summer.
Isn`t it documented that the Kovalchuk contract was handed out against Lou`s wishes?...wasn`t it ownership that pushed that through?

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01-04-2013, 12:14 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Did you miss the blow up in december where Bettman said "everything is off the table including Make Whole as a concept" after the PA submitted a counter because the owners only wanted a "yes or no" answer? Or did you miss this whole weeks worth of negotiations where the owners came back and not only brought everything back but improved on the last offer as well?

If you have missed all that I can't help you. You can find a link through google.
True. I would have loved to have seen the reaction if Fehr had made the Bettman tirade speech.
Both sides have moved from their original positions and both sides have behaved irresponsibly. For some reason when the NHL backtracks it's called shrewd negotiating but when the PA does it it's called changing the goalposts.

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01-04-2013, 12:15 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by NYRKindms View Post
That is not what happened and the tweet is pure NHL spin.

They wanted 2 buyouts. League agreed.

Bettmen was discussing the cap going to 60m and that certain GMs regretted giving out the contracts they had and were fine blowing up their teams to get under 60M. The NHLPA demanded to know which GMs were saying this. Bettmen wouldn't say.

This all came up during the cap discussion. It had nothing to do with compliance buyouts.
Brian Gionta would disagree with you. I saw a video earlier this morning with Letang, Gorges and Gionta and Gionta made a reference to the compliance buyout and I thought his comment was strange and then I come here and see that tweet about the PA now upset about compliance buyouts. Gionta's comments would lend more credence to the tweet than what you consider to be spin.

Gionta: "Guys were signing good faith with the cap being at a certain point so the biggest thing is trying to honour what was already given and not cutting guys down or making buyouts".

http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/latest...to-date/page/2

Why is Gionta saying that the league shouldn't be making buyouts in regards to the cap when it was HIS UNION that demanded that buyouts be included in the transition in order to adjust to a new cap? For a guy that's been speaking about the lockout and repeatedly talking about the PA being united and informed, it's pretty damn stupid that he would even make that comment. Stupid indeed.

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01-04-2013, 12:15 PM
  #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
From what I understand, the league is proposing a clause that says if the NHLPA can prove the league is hiding HRR they can re-negotiate the CBA.

I could be wrong though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
sounds to me that the NHL is saying that they are so confident that they arent hiding money that the NHLPA can hire people to look for hidden HRR and if they find a variance greater than 2%, they will end the current CBA
Thank you.


Last edited by Ugene Malkin: 01-04-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
01-04-2013, 12:16 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
True. I would have loved to have seen the reaction if Fehr had made the Bettman tirade speech.
you mean like when Fehr came out and said they probably had a deal knowing full well the NHL would reject the offer ?

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01-04-2013, 12:16 PM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuck in Socal View Post
You do realize they are not even negotiating right now. The mediation is simply each side complaining to a mediator all alone. As I've said before a deal only gets reached here after one side caves in. There is no middle ground. I don't see what the difference between today and next week is. Both sides have dig in for the long haul.
Do you not realize that mediation is most successful when both sides are close and wanting to get a deal done. If the sides were not close and one or the other did not want a deal the mediators would of been dismissed.

The mediation 2 months ago was a joke, this time it's legit.

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01-04-2013, 12:16 PM
  #685
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If they don't want buyouts then why did they ask for them.

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01-04-2013, 12:16 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Did you miss the blow up in december where Bettman said "everything is off the table including Make Whole as a concept" after the PA submitted a counter because the owners only wanted a "yes or no" answer? Or did you miss this whole weeks worth of negotiations where the owners came back and not only brought everything back but improved on the last offer as well?

If you have missed all that I can't help you. You can find a link through google.
1. Pretty sure it was Fehr's scripted press conferences and outright lies about negotiations that set Bettman off
2. What does off the table mean to you? All it means to me is that it is currently not being offered.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:17 PM
  #687
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Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
My 2 cents: Bettman says things that anger players. Fehr does things that anger league/owners. Get over it, be adults and negotiate.

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01-04-2013, 12:17 PM
  #688
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I'm at the point of "**** everything" with all this extra finger pointing at the end.

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01-04-2013, 12:17 PM
  #689
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Analogy:
I need to buy a car.
I'm in no hurry as I carpool to work, borrow a friends car for groceries, etc.
I don't have all the freedom I once had, but I'm doing OK.

So I take my time bargaining a deal.
I'm in no hurry.
The seller is motivated.
He has to come down to meet my price.
I don't like the deal, I walk away.

My carpool buddy tells me he got a new job.
Now I need a car in two weeks.
I'm still gonna bargain, but I know within two weeks, I have to make a deal.

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01-04-2013, 12:17 PM
  #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colchar View Post
The league hasn't been negotiating as time ticked down (when the mediators were last there they refused to say anything other than "take it or leave it") so how would the NHLPA negotiating earlier have been productive? If the league won't negotiate as time draws to a close why the hell would they have negotiated with months to spare?





And you think the league's first offer was reasonable?






Pretty easy to do when your first offer is completely ridiculous.




Look at the dumbass comments from those on the owner's side. You seem pretty selective about what bothers you and do not seem to be looking at the actions of both sides here.
Do you honestly not see why starting negotiations a year ago would have helped this progress? And how has the league not been negotiating? Everytime theyve submitted a proposal its changed closer to what the players have said they would like.


People are still *****ing about the first proposal? It was an opening offer that was exactly opposite of what the players had. It cracks me up that its bad for the owners to submit an offer thats exactly opposite of what the players had but so good for the players to have the deal they do.



While you term the first offer ridiculous the owners have moved how far from it? Quite a ways.


What dumbass statement from the owners side? Outside of the one from the Red Wings guy, whihc honestly wasnt all that bad, where are all these other statements? I have looked at both sides actions here. I see one side that has been wanting to negotiate for over a year and one side thats been dragging their feet to not. And you know whose losing out because of it? Us the fans. Like I said for all of the players talk about just wanting to play their actions certainly dont show it.

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01-04-2013, 12:17 PM
  #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Brian Gionta would disagree with you. I saw a video earlier this morning with Letang, Gorges and Gionta and Gionta made a reference to the compliance buyout and I thought his comment was strange and then I come here and see that tweet about the PA now upset about compliance buyouts. Gionta's comments would lend more credence to the tweet than what you consider to be spin.

Gionta: "Guys were signing good faith with the cap being at a certain point so the biggest thing is trying to honour what was already given and not cutting guys down or making buyouts".

http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/latest...to-date/page/2

Why is Gionta saying that the league shouldn't be making buyouts in regards to the cap when it was HIS UNION that demanded that buyouts be included in the transition? For a guy that's been speaking about the lockout and repeatedly talking about the PA being united and informed, it's pretty damn stupid that he would even make that comment. Stupid indeed.
not that stupid, considering he knows he`d be a target for a buyout.....it`s all "team" until "me" is involved

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01-04-2013, 12:18 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
you mean like when Fehr came out and said they probably had a deal knowing full well the NHL would reject the offer ?
That's not what he said. But yes, if the roles were reversed and Bettman had made Fehr's speech and Fehr had made Bettman's. I bet the reaction of posters would be in support of Bettman, as usual.

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01-04-2013, 12:18 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Every employee IS part of the product. From the dishwasher to the Manger

Every employee IS part of the product From the Mascot, Nacho Stand attendent to Every hockey player and GM.

Every variable, every employee is always a part of the product.
You're wrong. I don't pay high ticket/concession prices to have a loud beer vendor try to be entertaining. I pay high prices for hockey and that beer.

I don't care who hands me the nachos, as long as they're sanitary and hot. It doesn't take an extraordinary skillset or years of practice to be able to do that.

I DO care about who is skating on the ice. And I do expect the players to have extraordinary skillsets and have put in years of practice.

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01-04-2013, 12:19 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by The Brovalchuk View Post
Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
Players ask for compliance buyouts. NHL agrees to 2. PA apparently upset now GMs would use buyouts to shed contracts they regret.Makes sense

https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/sta...53085909307392

This about sums up everything.
Is this where "be careful what you wish for" applies?


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01-04-2013, 12:20 PM
  #695
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I'm proud it's the Devils beat writer that makes the most sense. lol

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01-04-2013, 12:20 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
That's not what he said. But yes, if the roles were reversed and Bettman had made Fehr's speech and Fehr had made Bettman's. I bet the reaction of posters would be in support of Bettman, as usual.
You supported the owners up until October?

Could you please link me to an owner-supporting post that you made back then?

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01-04-2013, 12:20 PM
  #697
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
You're wrong. I don't pay high ticket/concession prices to have a loud beer vendor try to be entertaining. I pay high prices for hockey and that beer.

I don't care who hands me the nachos, as long as they're sanitary and hot. It doesn't take an extraordinary skillset or years of practice to be able to do that.

I DO care about who is skating on the ice. And I do expect the players to have extraordinary skillsets and have put in years of practice.
Agreed. People try to analogize NHL players to ordinary employees and that's a flawed analogy. People pay to see Crosby etc play. They are not ordinary employees.

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01-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Is this now my turn to ask "do you even read the posts"?

Like I said, it's not the players responsibility to fix a poorly run business. The majority of NBA and NHL teams make money. Just because a few teams do not does not mean the players need to the fix that. The owners of the business need to fix that just like any other business would. Marketing, promotions, creating a better product and if all else fails closing down the store and opening it up in another location.
Ummm, it is if they want to have a job. The players should be more concerned with the overall financial health of the the NHL than they are.

A business first steps to fix a money problem is to look how to get costs in line, not spend their way out of it....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull
The #Flyers' Jody Shelley thinks the odds are in favor of settlement next week. "But I'm an optimistic person," he said.

https://twitter.com/BroadStBull/stat...58663142449153
It's been so long that I actually forgot, blissfully, that Jody was a Flyer. A bad day just got worse.

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01-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
Towels being an argument point is believable. The players demanded a minimum thread count for hotel sheets as well...this is what some of this crap comes down to
Can't possibly be true. #ThreadCountProblems

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01-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #700
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Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
Do you not realize that mediation is most successful when both sides are close and wanting to get a deal done. If the sides were not close and one or the other did not want a deal the mediators would of been dismissed.

The mediation 2 months ago was a joke, this time it's legit.
3 more or less big issues and 7-8 overall is not what I consider close with under a week to go to salvage a season. It is a race against the clock against this point and I hope the players realize that.

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