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CBA / Lockout Discussion Thread (Update: player tested, owner approved)

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #426
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The owners group (Ron Burkle, Mark Chipman, Jeff Vinik, Larry Tanenbaum) from early December won't be involve in CBA talks, if any, Sunday.

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12-29-2012, 10:10 PM
  #427
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Prospal is an easily absorbed hit, its guys like Vinny and Mattias that would look at buyout.

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12-29-2012, 11:31 PM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Prospal is an easily absorbed hit, its guys like Vinny and Mattias that would look at buyout.
But if you can't resign a player right after buying them out, then it could be a good solution if Yzerman doesn't want to lose any of the players with high cap hits (if it's even possible to do with Prospal). Im sure we'd all like to lower Vinny's cap hit but I doubt Yzerman and this organization really want to lose Vinny and it looks like Ohlund will retire, or at least that's what EE keeps saying.

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12-30-2012, 08:33 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
But if you can't resign a player right after buying them out, then it could be a good solution if Yzerman doesn't want to lose any of the players with high cap hits (if it's even possible to do with Prospal). Im sure we'd all like to lower Vinny's cap hit but I doubt Yzerman and this organization really want to lose Vinny and it looks like Ohlund will retire, or at least that's what EE keeps saying.
I agree, and considering it league wide, it seems to make sense. It certainly makes things predictable for the PA since it's already known who is bought out.

Infact, I just did the math, and excluding the numbers for whatever is saved for this season, the league would take off $14,527,444 total. (that number would be split unevenly across the next two years, but I don't know how else to phrase it)

It should at least be an option for the Islanders to get rid of the 4.4mil left for Yashin or Minnesota's $927k for Mark Parrish.

Tampa Bay actually has the 2nd highest buyout hit after the Islanders with Prospal's 2.3m after this season.

Here's the numbers I got:
Carolina - $125k
Columbus - $2,283,332
Dallas - $233,333
Florida - $333,333
Minnesota - $927,778
New Jersey - $1,583,334
Islanders - $4,408,000
Ottawa - $200k
Philadelphia - $100k
Tampa Bay - $2,333,334
Toronto - $2,000,000

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12-30-2012, 10:09 AM
  #430
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Its going to really depend on the rules of the buy outs. Thats whats going to determine how teams use them.

I dont see why a team not over the proposed cap (like TB) would use the buyout on a player whos cap hit will be gone after this year anyway. Unless obviously they have no other reasonable options to use the buy out on.

Using it on Ohlund makes the most sense to me. Unless Ohlund says hes gonna retire in which case it wouldnt be necessary. Although even with Ohlund, if the Lightning wanted to they could use LTIR to go over that cap amount on the cap limit for Ohlund. So still not effecting them that much.

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12-30-2012, 12:09 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Its going to really depend on the rules of the buy outs. Thats whats going to determine how teams use them.

I dont see why a team not over the proposed cap (like TB) would use the buyout on a player whos cap hit will be gone after this year anyway. Unless obviously they have no other reasonable options to use the buy out on.

Using it on Ohlund makes the most sense to me. Unless Ohlund says hes gonna retire in which case it wouldnt be necessary. Although even with Ohlund, if the Lightning wanted to they could use LTIR to go over that cap amount on the cap limit for Ohlund. So still not effecting them that much.
Right, but TB has Prospal as a cap hit until the end of the 2014-15 season.

If teams want to lower their cap number, the players they've already bought out should at least be an option.

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12-30-2012, 12:52 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Right, but TB has Prospal as a cap hit until the end of the 2014-15 season.

If teams want to lower their cap number, the players they've already bought out should at least be an option.
Oh youre right. I thought Prospal was done after this season. That would work.

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12-30-2012, 07:31 PM
  #433
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412474

Quote:
The NHL Players' Association will meet on Monday with the NHL after spending most of the weekend reading through the league's 288-page proposal.

The NHLPA met internally on Sunday in New York after it wrapped up information sessions earlier in the day involving the Owners' latest CBA proposal.
Quote:
According to TSN's Aaron Ward, it is reasonable to expect that the NHLPA will have players present at the meeting on Monday.

Ward also reports that lawyers and financial staff representing both sides met face-to-face on Sunday. They were involved in the review and clarification of the offer.

The NHL and the Players' Association will be meeting in person for the first time since they met with federal mediators on Dec. 12-13.
Quote:
The lockout is in its 106th day. The league would like to have an agreement in place no later than January 11 with training camps to open the following day and the season set to start on January 19. The season needs to start by that date to accommodate a 48-game regular season which would see playoffs end in late June.

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12-31-2012, 01:17 PM
  #434
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According the the NHLPA, #tblightning all-star Marty St. Louis part of today's negotiating team

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12-31-2012, 01:32 PM
  #435
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ESPN: Breaking News - NHL on Strike!

Since expansion money is now apparently an issue for the PA, what other unexpected things will be made an issue in the future?

I'm thinking score-o participants become PA members, or something involving a mascot union.

edit: Alright, people are saying expansion and relocation money into HRR isn't true.

The PA did present a counter proposal, which I hope was printed on two-ply as the league is going to think it's ****.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-31-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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12-31-2012, 10:07 PM
  #436
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http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=412474
Quote:
Three days after receiving a detailed new offer from Gary Bettman and the league, Donald Fehr and the Players' Association responded Monday afternoon with a "comprehensive" proposal of their own.
Quote:
Bettman said his side would take Monday evening to study the most recent proposal before contacting Fehr and the players on Tuesday morning.

"Their response was a comprehensive one, dealing with the full slate of issues that we raised and proposals that we put forth," said Bettman, amidst a horde of passersby eager to ring in the New Year. "We're in the process of reviewing their response."
Quote:
The two sides will reconnect Tuesday morning and expect to meet later in the day.

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01-01-2013, 11:14 AM
  #437
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You know how you get the league's ass to sweat?

Pull out of the in-person meeting at the last minute so the executive board can discuss whether they'll disclaim.

I don't doubt that the late meeting time is intended, to some degree, to preoccupy the PA leadership from having that discussion.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see the NHL offers a counter proposal in the coming hours. It'll look bad on the PA if they don't spend the time neccessary to seem like they read it, which would push them past the executive board's window of authorization. On the other hand, the PA can point out what such an offer clearly is, and they have the media and public on their side enough that they'll get that backing.

and it'll probably benefit the players if a CBA offer was legitmately rushed. Either way, it'll get us closer to what ends up being the CBA.


In a non-lockout universe, we'd be hearing about ice conditions for the about to start Winter Classic right now. (3:19pm)


Hockey Insider, (believed to be Alexander Daigle) for better or worse, is saying that the lockout has been described to him by an 'NHL source' to be 95% over. The biggest thing he's saying is that the shift comes next season, and not right now, assuming some amount of this season is played. Notably that the cap would stay the same this 'season' and the buyouts would therefore be before 2013-14 which means guys with big contracts would probably hustle their ***** off.

These are also details, and we don't want to know details.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 01-01-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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01-02-2013, 02:15 PM
  #438
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Slava Fetisov believes the NHL won't allow its players to participate in the Olympics.

http://rbth.ru/articles/2013/01/02/f...ame_21645.html

I disagree with him on most of what he's saying here, but it's interesting to see what a great like Fetisov thinks.

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01-03-2013, 09:52 AM
  #439
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Two potential buyouts per team... 4 and 5 would clear over 10 million. That depends on LTIR though for 5 and stashing him there, and the insurance on that contract. In actual dollars, its 15m this year, 13.75 next, 12, 11 going forward. With LTIR you don't worry about 5's hit, but with 4 and the money he makes, and looking at other options (Killorn), it really makes you think. I know a lot of people swear it'll never happen to 4, but i'm not on that ship.

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01-03-2013, 10:04 AM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Two potential buyouts per team... 4 and 5 would clear over 10 million. That depends on LTIR though for 5 and stashing him there, and the insurance on that contract. In actual dollars, its 15m this year, 13.75 next, 12, 11 going forward. With LTIR you don't worry about 5's hit, but with 4 and the money he makes, and looking at other options (Killorn), it really makes you think. I know a lot of people swear it'll never happen to 4, but i'm not on that ship.
No one's mentioned 12. He used to be picked on when games were played, but has sort of faded from memory.

12 put up ~50 like 16, but both are going to make 4.5 next season, and noone is calling for 16 to be bought-out and 12 did it in 68 games. The injuries are a concern of course, hopefully this time off helps him.

12 also has the strings attached with his dad in the organization. If 12 goes, his dad will probably go as well.

but 12's place with the team becomes sort of a question when you consider TJ Brown, Killorn, Conacher, etc.

4's # really isn't the problem, IMO. It's the length.

I'm figuring this based not on how much they "deserve", but how much they'd likely get from another team. I said earlier 4 could make 6, and that makes the difference what? Like 1.5. Not a terrible amount if you consider his place with the organization.

5's number is pretty bad though, and I'm going to have to assume that it becomes worse if he ever makes it back. He also has some sort of NMC/limited NTC, which makes him harder to move conventionally.

6 has a bad number as well, and we've never even seen him play for blue.


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01-03-2013, 12:40 PM
  #441
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No shortage of "will" to get a deal done, however, I'm told PA vets, Shane Doan and Marty St Louis are very focused on the end game.

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01-03-2013, 12:56 PM
  #442
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I agree about Vinny being a possible guy who would get it. Not the only candidate for it but you have to consider it as a possibility.

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01-03-2013, 01:04 PM
  #443
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The twitters today seem to indicate that the mood is not very cheery.

Quote:
Player told me "PA still feels NHL is purposely hiding money & that we've let all players know about it." This will take a little longer.
https://twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/...02339154087936

to expand on what this is saying is that the NHL changed the language from previous offers with regards to HRR and the penalties that applied for teams that fudged purposefully.

The league has gone back to the old language and there was much rejoicing.


The PA response to the NHL's legal complaint.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4hY.../view?sle=true


Mathieu Dandenault with something potentially worrying.

Quote:
The nhl and nhlpa talks r dead for now...look for the players to disclaim...#lockout
https://twitter.com/mdandenault25/st...74367181713408

He's also a retired player now and those guys seem to not be on the same page as the active ones, which I find a bit surprising.

Dandenault later says
Quote:
I still believe their will be season...just very tough negociation...
https://twitter.com/mdandenault25/st...85125105917953



Octagon agent (Lawton and Alan Walsh's agency) Andy Scott says:
Quote:
A few trusty sources saying NHLPA - NHL deal will be announced tomorrow..... #FinalStretch #AboutTime
https://twitter.com/Andy_Scott15/sta...69930182717440

Be still my gentle heart.

Now, not so much:
Quote:
Bombarded by email after tweet for deal tmrw. Now told serious hurdles still remain. Eternal optimism may have gotten best of a few sources.
https://twitter.com/Andy_Scott15/sta...20488839012352

Anyone think that the way the players combated Dandenault potentially spreading misinformation was to spread more misinformation?


Last edited by Felonious Python: 01-04-2013 at 06:50 AM.
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01-04-2013, 11:30 AM
  #444
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getting a bit too wall-o-text, so another post.


Bettman angers players, slows talks by saying some GMs would like to 'dismantle' teams

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slapsh...#axzz2H1paDjcP

and before you go 'oh, it's Larry Brooks', it is, but the basis of the article is confirmed by The Sporting News' Jesse Spector.

Today's PA group appears to be MSL-less, so no CBA agreement today.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 01-04-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post

Today's PA group appears to be MSL-less, so no CBA agreement today.
The PA are lacking their secret weapon.....Cory Murphy.

He is in the KHL, so clearly with him gone there can be no NHL.

Cory Murphy>Hockey

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01-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #446
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I really hope Bettman is fired or something after all of this. Cant stand even looking at him or hearing his name.

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01-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
The PA are lacking their secret weapon.....Cory Murphy.

He is in the KHL, so clearly with him gone there can be no NHL.

Cory Murphy>Hockey
This fight is really about Cory Murphy.

The PA would have accepted 43%, but Cory Murphy gets 7% of HRR, and that would have come out of the players' share. They're just trying to make up the difference here.

Why do you think the league wants term limits? It makes it unfair if one team can lockup Murphy for 40 or 50 years.

By 'lockup' I of course mean sign. Cory Murphy cannot be contained and will of course roam where he pleases.

Murphy could say something and we'd see a 50/50/50 split, but Cory Murphy believes in the invisible hand of the marketplace, when he's not it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
I really hope Bettman is fired or something after all of this. Cant stand even looking at him or hearing his name.
Well, he'll be NBA fans problem.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 01-04-2013 at 04:41 PM.
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01-05-2013, 12:48 PM
  #448
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Today is another 'optimistic' day and Nick Kyperos said something pretty noteworthy.

Quote:
Source "tentative deal could be done within 24 hrs or #NHLPA could serve #NHL notice to disclaim early as 2day. Present meeting is huge.
https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/287631039764000769

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01-05-2013, 01:42 PM
  #449
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Make it happen!

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01-05-2013, 07:33 PM
  #450
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BREAKING #mnwild news: Mikael Granlund pulled from #Aeros lineup after warmups;Wild doesn't want to risk injury in case #nhl camp on horizon

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