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01-04-2013, 09:00 AM
  #51
ryno23
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I could see Luongo coming to Toronto and Komi going to Vancouver (part of a package) which would use their amnesty on him. Once he is amnestied I can see Burke signing him to a smaller deal to bring him back.

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01-04-2013, 09:19 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
Buyout Komisarek, Sign Ranger to a cheap NHL deal.

It would be so sick, if the lockout ends next week and those are the first two moves.
Ranger is UFA, can sign with anyone.

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01-04-2013, 10:15 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
Buyout Komisarek, Sign Ranger to a cheap NHL deal.

It would be so sick, if the lockout ends next week and those are the first two moves.
Well I can tell you one of your wishes for next week will not be coming true..

Amnesty buyouts are for next season, not this current one, so no one will be bought out if the lockout ends and there is hockey this season as the cap will remain at $70 mil.

The amnesty buyout is designed for next year when the cal ceiling may drop to $60 mil, giving teams options to comply to the new lower cap floors and ceilings.

Paul Ranger is a UFA and not Leaf property at the moment, so if Toronto does want him on their blue-line they will need to sign him to an NHL contract first. For this season (if there is one) they might have to decide between unsigned RFA Cody Franson and Paul Ranger for the last roster spot on defense.

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01-04-2013, 10:56 AM
  #54
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I know this will be unpopular, but depending on how this season goes (if there is a season), Grabos contract could be a real albatross at some point. We should seriously think about buying it out if we're looking at players like Getzlaf, Perry or other elite guys.

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01-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
I know this will be unpopular, but depending on how this season goes (if there is a season), Grabos contract could be a real albatross at some point. We should seriously think about buying it out if we're looking at players like Getzlaf, Perry or other elite guys.
I've thought the same but I tend to look at the lineup in terms of number of positions divided by salary cap, therefore how much could I spend by position if I split it evenly versus number of players at that position.

Basically it breaks down as:

$36 M on forwards
$18 M on D
$6 M in goal

If our second line is JVR-Grabo-Kulemin, we have about $12.5 on line 2. We could afford $18 M on line 1 if we make sure our bottom 2 lines average $1 M each. Kessel soon probably makes $7.5, leaving $10.5 for the other two. All depends what we decide to do but that's one option. Course there's all kinds of FA every year so it constantly changes.

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01-04-2013, 12:07 PM
  #56
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Can't see the Leafs buying out anyone. Most likely mop up some of the other buyouts.

If Lecavalier is bought out then he'll almost guaranteedly go to Montreal.

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01-04-2013, 12:19 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Paul Ranger is a UFA and not Leaf property at the moment, so if Toronto does want him on their blue-line they will need to sign him to an NHL contract first. For this season (if there is one) they might have to decide between unsigned RFA Cody Franson and Paul Ranger for the last roster spot on defense.
Gunnarsson will get traded before Burke bails on Franson or Ranger, IMO.

Gunnarsson has actually got really good value on the market right now, being a very stable defenseman on a very, very good contract.

A lot of teams will value affordably priced, reliable players.

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01-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
Gunnarsson will get traded before Burke bails on Franson or Ranger, IMO.

Gunnarsson has actually got really good value on the market right now, being a very stable defenseman on a very, very good contract.

A lot of teams will value affordably priced, reliable players.
I hate this. After years of envying teams like Det for stealing European gems in the late rounds, we finally get a couple in Gunner ad Kulie and there is talk of moving them.

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01-04-2013, 12:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by namttebih View Post
I hate this. After years of envying teams like Det for stealing European gems in the late rounds, we finally get a couple in Gunner ad Kulie and there is talk of moving them.
It's not that the Leafs don't value Kulie or Gunnar, it's that with the cap dropping so steeply, teams may be willing to overpay for players on good contracts.

As much as people have been lamenting Burke and the players he's brought in, he's put us in a great position to be able to broker trades. We have some cap space, and good contracts for both welfare teams (Komisarek, Connolly) and rich teams (Gunnarsson, Bozak, Kulemin, Reimer).

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01-04-2013, 12:47 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
That would seem a little unjust. Basically Crosby and Malkin would count zero towards the Pens cap. My wouldn't THAT be nice.
The Pens would not be the only benefactor. In some way, it would help every team. Being able to not have two of your star players count against the cap, would hold tremendous implications for the player market. Teams could spend more, and poor markets that already struggle balancing star players against the cap, would not have to worry. The rich markets would also, of course, benefit.

I don't know if this will actually work; it was just a thought, not necessarily something I have researched or well-thought out. But the cap hurts everybody. Some teams have good players with contracts that they just hate, it is not only bad players with bad contracts. I think it's wrong to exclude the former.

Anyway, I would use the provision on Grabovski and Liles.

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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I can't imagine a team being able to ignore $17 M in cap (thus allowing them to go out and sign another two at $17 M) helps the overall objective. As a Leaf fan, I'd be all for it but not if it only applied to contracts currently on your team - then all you do is reward all the cheaters.
Star players want to earn star money, and do not want to prevent other players from also doing so. This accomplishes both.

And the 17 million saved doesn't have to go to another two players, but can be spread out to allocate other weaknesses. If the cap is 60 million, then you would be using this "new" money to create a better team.

Your last sentence alludes to the problem with this idea, in my opinion. Teams that have "cap-circumventing" contracts can just use this provision. They'd in fact be coming out of what was conceived as a problem as even better off.

I think that in terms of the big picture and the pay-off with this idea, it'd be a small concern.

Teams should have the option to:

1) Buy out a bad player, pay his salary, and rid themselves of him.
2) "Buy out" a good player, pay his salary, and keep him (just not against the cap).


Last edited by Epictetus: 01-04-2013 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Added the last post.
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01-04-2013, 12:54 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
The Pens would not be the only benefactor. In some way, it would help every team. Being able to not have two of your star players count against the cap, would hold tremendous implications for the player market. Teams could spend more, and poor markets that already struggle balancing star players against the cap, would not have to worry. The rich markets would also, of course, benefit.

I don't know if this will actually work; it was just a thought, not necessarily something I have researched or well-thought out. But the cap hurts everybody. Some teams have good players with contracts that they just hate, it is not only bad players with bad contracts. I think it's wrong to exclude the former.

Anyway, I would use the provision on Grabovski and Liles.
I can't imagine a team being able to ignore $17 M in cap (thus allowing them to go out and sign another two at $17 M) helps the overall objective. As a Leaf fan, I'd be all for it but not if it only applied to contracts currently on your team - then all you do is reward all the cheaters.

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01-04-2013, 01:27 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
It's not that the Leafs don't value Kulie or Gunnar, it's that with the cap dropping so steeply, teams may be willing to overpay for players on good contracts.

As much as people have been lamenting Burke and the players he's brought in, he's put us in a great position to be able to broker trades. We have some cap space, and good contracts for both welfare teams (Komisarek, Connolly) and rich teams (Gunnarsson, Bozak, Kulemin, Reimer).
Toronto doesn't need good players on good contracts?

It makes more sense to keep these guys so you can afford guys like Getzlaf/Perry.

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01-04-2013, 01:39 PM
  #63
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Pronger is not a buy out option in Phy. Chances are he never plays again and his contract comes off the books anyway. Bryz would be the choice there and I would be surprised who would sign him. He has shown he is a head case.

What happens to the Kings? Great team and they will have to loose pieces. That was a team I thought could win 2 or 3 in a row.

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01-04-2013, 01:49 PM
  #64
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Some folks forget that Komisarek will actually be paid 3.5m/per in the last two years of his contract with a 4.5m cap hit (at least according to capgeek).

Wouldn't this make him attractive to some small market teams looking to hit the cap floor? Just wondering...

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01-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #65
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I've been a big Lecavalier fan over the years, but I think getting him might be a waste of time and money. After the 2005 lockout we went out and got Jason Allison and Eric Lindros, who were big center reclamations, but they were terrible. Lecavalier is the same age as those guys were now, he's been through a ton of injuries, has missed a year this year and might just be a total albatross.

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01-04-2013, 01:57 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by gordonshumway View Post
Some folks forget that Komisarek will actually be paid 3.5m/per in the last two years of his contract with a 4.5m cap hit (at least according to capgeek).

Wouldn't this make him attractive to some small market teams looking to hit the cap floor? Just wondering...
It really depends on what the cap floor is when all this is settled.

If he only has 1 year remaining, I could see a trade happening to a team that needs a veteran.

There aren't really a lot of options for a buy-out candidate on the Leafs because there aren't contracts long enough to really screw over the Leafs.

Grabovski's contract might look big if the cap only goes to 60 million. That would be a big percentage for the team to pay a 2nd line centreman. JVR's contract is pretty reasonable at the moment, but again could look different on a 60 million limit.

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01-04-2013, 02:08 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Pronger is not a buy out option in Phy. Chances are he never plays again and his contract comes off the books anyway. Bryz would be the choice there and I would be surprised who would sign him. He has shown he is a head case.

What happens to the Kings? Great team and they will have to loose pieces. That was a team I thought could win 2 or 3 in a row.
Pronger's contract because he was 35+ when he signed it will count against the cap until the contract runs out. unless the new CBA states different. thats why many believe Pronger will get bought out.

also why is LA in a problem? they have all there better players signed for atleast 3 years and are at 49 million right now going into 2013-2014 season. that will be plenty to re-sign guys like Lewis, Nolan, Clifford, Voynov, Martinez and add a lower tier top 6 player and a backup goalie. which is basically what they will do.

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01-04-2013, 02:13 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
Pronger's contract because he was 35+ when he signed it will count against the cap until the contract runs out. unless the new CBA states different. thats why many believe Pronger will get bought out.

also why is LA in a problem? they have all there better players signed for atleast 3 years and are at 49 million right now going into 2013-2014 season. that will be plenty to re-sign guys like Lewis, Nolan, Clifford, Voynov, Martinez and add a lower tier top 6 player and a backup goalie. which is basically what they will do.
I don't see them missing Penner and Gagne at all.

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01-04-2013, 02:14 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by gordonshumway View Post
Some folks forget that Komisarek will actually be paid 3.5m/per in the last two years of his contract with a 4.5m cap hit (at least according to capgeek).

Wouldn't this make him attractive to some small market teams looking to hit the cap floor? Just wondering...
Also according to rumours this next CBA will allow teams to share salary in trades..

This way Toronto could pick up 1/2 the contracts of Liles and Komisarek and then when dealt away it would make them even more attractive to other smaller market teams when Leafs stick them with players they don't want or need.

This would be another way teams could comply with lower caps and not need to use amnesty buyouts to get rid of dead weight and free cap space.

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01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
  #70
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I've been a big Lecavalier fan over the years, but I think getting him might be a waste of time and money. After the 2005 lockout we went out and got Jason Allison and Eric Lindros, who were big center reclamations, but they were terrible. Lecavalier is the same age as those guys were now, he's been through a ton of injuries, has missed a year this year and might just be a total albatross.
Definitely a big risk. Would prefer a Getzlaf type. If we could work it under the cap, the following would be nice:

Lupul-Getzlaf-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kulemin
Frattin-Bozak-Kadri
Komarov-McClement-Brown

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01-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #71
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Yes, that is a change.

The trouble is the buy-out money comes from the players share of HRR-AE, reducing money available for the Cap.
It probably wouldnt reduce the cap it would just increase the amount the players lose to escrow. But I'm just speculating.

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01-04-2013, 03:18 PM
  #72
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No problem trading and buying out a player .. ie Nashville did it in the Lombardi/Franson deal for Brett Lebda

You're correct however that you can't re-sign a bought-out player in the same season in which you bought him out.
An amnesty buyout might not have the same rules as a regular buyout that counts against the cap.

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01-04-2013, 03:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
Pronger's contract because he was 35+ when he signed it will count against the cap until the contract runs out. unless the new CBA states different. thats why many believe Pronger will get bought out.

also why is LA in a problem? they have all there better players signed for atleast 3 years and are at 49 million right now going into 2013-2014 season. that will be plenty to re-sign guys like Lewis, Nolan, Clifford, Voynov, Martinez and add a lower tier top 6 player and a backup goalie. which is basically what they will do.
Thanks for the good info.

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01-04-2013, 03:23 PM
  #74
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Ranger is UFA, can sign with anyone.
Does his AHL contract have an out clause like that?

The whole point is moot as it seems Toronto is the only place he apparently wants to play for family reasons.

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01-04-2013, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
Pronger's contract because he was 35+ when he signed it will count against the cap until the contract runs out. unless the new CBA states different. thats why many believe Pronger will get bought out.

also why is LA in a problem? they have all there better players signed for atleast 3 years and are at 49 million right now going into 2013-2014 season. that will be plenty to re-sign guys like Lewis, Nolan, Clifford, Voynov, Martinez and add a lower tier top 6 player and a backup goalie. which is basically what they will do.
First as Pronger is injured he probably cant be bought out. Second as long as he is injured unless the rules change in the new CBA the Flyers will continue to be able to spend over the cap in the amount of his salary due to LTIR.

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