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Alex Galchenyuk Thread 8.0 - "Time on Ice" Edition

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01-04-2013, 10:28 AM
  #926
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What's 3 months in the nhl going to do? Are you serious?

At this point in his development, Galchenyuk would benefit more, IMO, from being in the NHL, practicing, travelling, learning how to be a pro, etc (this is assuming that he shows he's ready at camp) as opposed to racking up points in the OHL...
In a shortened season, it would be a mistake to keep in in the NHL unless he can crack the top two lines and play significant minutes.

Keep in mind there will be very little practices once the season starts, team will be playing on average 3.5 games a week. So he either cuts the mustard or goes back to Sarnia and continues his development.

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01-04-2013, 10:58 AM
  #927
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I think if you are going to keep an 18 year (or 19 year) old up, you have to be nearly certain he can play a considerable role for your team for most of the season. Like RNH, Hall, Landeskog, Larsson, Couturier, Skinner, etc did right after being drafted. The one exception is Seguin, but I would argue he was ready to do so, the Bruins simply decided to not put him into that role since they were contending. Basically, the kid has to be a top 6 forward or a defenceman who plays at least 18 minutes a night - or in Couturier's case the top defensive forward on the squad.

The list of players who were kept up for the whole season at 18 or 19, could not play those considerable roles and ended up being disappointments is VERY long.

After what I have seen at the WJC, I am not certain Galchenyuk could play that considerable role in what is essentially a 3 month season that will be played at a breakneck pace on a questionable team in transition under a brand new system.
This is the negative drawback to the WJC's...people put too much emphasis on such a small sample of performance

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01-04-2013, 11:33 AM
  #928
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Also a fair statement, but we're not sure how things will proceed when/if an NHL season begins...let's just see how the process plays out.

My initial thinking was that the Habs would give him every opportunity to make the team since he's got an invite to camp whenever the NHL resumes activities...so obvioulsy, they're going to give him an opportunity to prove his worth
I suspect the primary reason that they want him in camp is more for developmental purposes. It gives them an opportunity to directly work with him and allows him to guage where he stands relative to the average NHLer and highlight aspects of his game that will need to improve. If injuries create an opening it also gives the team an option to use the 10 game window, if that is still part of the CBA.

Pure conjecture on my part but I don't see how he could conclusively demonstrate that he is ready to take somebody's job under these circumstances.

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01-04-2013, 11:49 AM
  #929
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I suspect the primary reason that they want him in camp is more for developmental purposes. It gives them an opportunity to directly work with him and allows him to guage where he stands relative to the average NHLer and highlight aspects of his game that will need to improve. If injuries create an opening it also gives the team an option to use the 10 game window, if that is still part of the CBA.
I think this is why I don't *really* mind even if the team kept him around and only played him in half the games, 5 minutes a night, and exclusively on the 4th line with Blunden (called up to offset a wave of injuries) and Nokelainen. He'll still be around soaking up "NHL vibes", and even in a low-practice compressed season, there are still going to be *some* practices. And always the chance his participation gets bumped up further if an even larger wave of injuries hits. It's only 3 months. If he's as good a prospect as we think, this can't possibly hurt him.

It would be different if he was on London or Halifax or something like that in junior, and had a lot more to look forward to out of his junior season. Sarnia's doing surprisingly well as it is, perhaps, but 25-ish more regular season games and a round or two of playoffs... you could get a relatively non-major injury and miss all that too, and it wouldn't mean the end of the line developmentally by any stretch. High ankle sprain... is he done as a prospect? Obviously not.

My guess thus far is that I don't think he's quite ready to "win a job" in the NHL if it was a fair fight... but I also don't see why it has to be a "fair fight", he's our #1 pick, future saviour and all that. And I don't think he would be completely overmatched. The Habs sure have a lot of experienced NHL guys in their various player development roles now, and if it's their expert opinion that Galchenyuk is better served in this mini-season in Montreal, that seems like a reasonable alternative to me. (Even if I'd have picked a return to Sarnia on my own insufficient data and weak opinion).

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01-04-2013, 12:07 PM
  #930
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I think this is why I don't *really* mind even if the team kept him around and only played him in half the games, 5 minutes a night, and exclusively on the 4th line with Blunden (called up to offset a wave of injuries) and Nokelainen. He'll still be around soaking up "NHL vibes", and even in a low-practice compressed season, there are still going to be *some* practices. And always the chance his participation gets bumped up further if an even larger wave of injuries hits. It's only 3 months. If he's as good a prospect as we think, this can't possibly hurt him.

It would be different if he was on London or Halifax or something like that in junior, and had a lot more to look forward to out of his junior season. Sarnia's doing surprisingly well as it is, perhaps, but 25-ish more regular season games and a round or two of playoffs... you could get a relatively non-major injury and miss all that too, and it wouldn't mean the end of the line developmentally by any stretch. High ankle sprain... is he done as a prospect? Obviously not.

My guess thus far is that I don't think he's quite ready to "win a job" in the NHL if it was a fair fight... but I also don't see why it has to be a "fair fight", he's our #1 pick, future saviour and all that. And I don't think he would be completely overmatched. The Habs sure have a lot of experienced NHL guys in their various player development roles now, and if it's their expert opinion that Galchenyuk is better served in this mini-season in Montreal, that seems like a reasonable alternative to me. (Even if I'd have picked a return to Sarnia on my own insufficient data and weak opinion).
If his stay falls within the 10 game window I am ok with that but I think in the new cap era it will be imperative to get as much production from him as posible while he is still on is ELC. With that being the case a season as a 21 year old is far more valuable than half a season as an 18 year old.

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01-04-2013, 12:09 PM
  #931
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I'm not sure on whether or not Galchenyuk is NHL ready. One side of me says that he's been dominating the OHL since his first season, but other says the progression that he's showed as a player is very good but he still could improve.

Galchenyuk went from playing at one speed (could be attributed to his injury), not using his body, doing flashy drop passes that work every 1 in 10 times, and stickhandling himself into a corner, to being able to play at any speed you want, utilizing his frame well, using fancy passes at times where they are lower risk, and still stickhandling himself into a corner, but being able to get out or making an incredible pass. At the same time he still could work on be more consistent in his zone and using his body a bit better. I think he's shown progression, so what stops him from working on those things in the OHL? Then again, maybe it's better for him to work on those in the NHL where he pays a much higher price for making mistakes.

I want Galchenyuk to be able to come in and put the points up when he first makes the Habs, but I can't think of any reason for him not to other than looking out of place in camp. I think that's what it really comes down to though, does he fit in during camp or not?

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this question is for That or anyone else who's seen Galch in the OHL this year as well as the WJCs.

How different is the Galchenyuk of Sarnia and the one on team USA?

I've been impressed with what I've seen but not necessarily blown away. Is he that much better with Sarnia?
Galchenyuk definitely plays differently in Sarnia. He's normally much more engaged in the play, looks faster, and is more aggressive.

I'm sure it could be attributed to the chemistry that he already has with having one of the best players in the O centring him (Sarault) and Boucher, but he's easily the best player on that line. Galchenyuk and Sarault work well together, they know where each are on the ice always and recognize each others tendencies. Galchenyuk and Kuraly, not so much. Kuraly is certainly skilled, but his hockey IQ is poor and skates with his head down. Although, you can't blame it all on him. Galchenyuk hasn't been nearly as aggressive on the forecheck and in pursuit of the puck that he normally is. Part of me thinks that it's because of his role on Team USA, he looks confined to the one side of the ice and because of that he can't play how he normally does.

Although, I did really liked his game yesterday, he seemed to recognized that he's going to be used in more or grinder/energy role and decided to tighten up his defensive game and work along the boards.

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01-04-2013, 12:19 PM
  #932
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I'm not sure on whether or not Galchenyuk is NHL ready. One side of me says that he's been dominating the OHL since his first season, but other says the progression that he's showed as a player is very good but he still could improve.

Galchenyuk went from playing at one speed (could be attributed to his injury), not using his body, doing flashy drop passes that work every 1 in 10 times, and stickhandling himself into a corner, to being able to play at any speed you want, utilizing his frame well, using fancy passes at times where they are lower risk, and still stickhandling himself into a corner, but being able to get out or making an incredible pass. At the same time he still could work on be more consistent in his zone and using his body a bit better. I think he's shown progression, so what stops him from working on those things in the OHL? Then again, maybe it's better for him to work on those in the NHL where he pays a much higher price for making mistakes.

I want Galchenyuk to be able to come in and put the points up when he first makes the Habs, but I can't think of any reason for him not to other than looking out of place in camp. I think that's what it really comes down to though, does he fit in during camp or not?



Galchenyuk definitely plays differently in Sarnia. He's normally much more engaged in the play, looks faster, and is more aggressive.

I'm sure it could be attributed to the chemistry that he already has with having one of the best players in the O centring him (Sarault) and Boucher, but he's easily the best player on that line. Galchenyuk and Sarault work well together, they know where each are on the ice always and recognize each others tendencies. Galchenyuk and Kuraly, not so much. Kuraly is certainly skilled, but his hockey IQ is poor and skates with his head down. Although, you can't blame it all on him. Galchenyuk hasn't been nearly as aggressive on the forecheck and in pursuit of the puck that he normally is. Part of me thinks that it's because of his role on Team USA, he looks confined to the one side of the ice and because of that he can't play how he normally does.

Although, I did really liked his game yesterday, he seemed to recognized that he's going to be used in more or grinder/energy role and decided to tighten up his defensive game and work along the boards.
I'd like Bergevin to follow the LA model. They left their prospects in the AHL for a long time until they were all ready to make the jump together. Galchenyuk shouldn't be called up until we have a chance to make a push, which may be next season if we're given the chance to buyout Gomez and Kaberle this summer. We have enough guys to fill in in the mean time: Bourque, Gionta, Armstrong, Prust, Nokelainen, etc. They may suck but that's a good thing right now.

Then we can call up Galchenyuk, Leblanc, Gallagher, Tinordi and Beaulieu next season, and likely Collberg, Kristo and Ellis the year after. And whoever we draft this year whenever he's ready.

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01-04-2013, 12:20 PM
  #933
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Gally's skating would make him very ineffective at the NHL right now. It is one thing to dangle junior players out of stride, but that won't happen in the NHL. The rest of the year in the O, and a summer of explosive skating training is what he needs before he will be able to adjust to the speed of the NHL.

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01-04-2013, 12:22 PM
  #934
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I heard from a source VERY close to the Habs that they think Galchenyuk is a very good player.

I hope I don't get blasted for being a fraud because I have inside information or I may stop reporting the inside information I'm hearing.

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01-04-2013, 12:23 PM
  #935
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I'd like Bergevin to follow the LA model. They left their prospects in the AHL for a long time until they were all ready to make the jump together. Galchenyuk shouldn't be called up until we have a chance to make a push, which may be next season if we're given the chance to buyout Gomez and Kaberle this summer. We have enough guys to fill in in the mean time: Bourque, Gionta, Armstrong, Prust, Nokelainen, etc. They may suck but that's a good thing right now.

Then we can call up Galchenyuk, Leblanc, Gallagher, Tinordi and Beaulieu next season, and likely Collberg, Kristo and Ellis the year after. And whoever we draft this year whenever he's ready.
Just like they did with Drew Doughty.

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01-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #936
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Just like they did with Drew Doughty.
That's one out of how many?

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01-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #937
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Just like they did with Anze Kopitar.

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01-04-2013, 12:31 PM
  #938
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That's one out of how many?
I think referencing the Detroit model would have been more relevant than the Kings.......

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01-04-2013, 12:38 PM
  #939
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There aren't a lot of top-3 picks anymore that aren't in the NHL as teenagers. Maybe Detroit and LA haven't had a lot of top-3 picks. But it would be a bit of an exception if Galchenyuk wasn't on the team next season, at least. This season is a bit of a special case, given his pre-draft injury, given the lockout. Next season is not in any doubt at all...


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01-04-2013, 12:41 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I heard from a source VERY close to the Habs that they think Galchenyuk is a very good player.

I hope I don't get blasted for being a fraud because I have inside information or I may stop reporting the inside information I'm hearing.
I won't say you're a fraud, don't worry.

But that's far from a bold statement or a breaking news. After all, they liked him enough to pick him with the highest pick the Habs have had in a decade...

I could say that too, without any inside info, and you couldn't really call me out for being a liar. That's just nothing out of the world as far as inside info goes...

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01-04-2013, 12:42 PM
  #941
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Gally's skating would make him very ineffective at the NHL right now. It is one thing to dangle junior players out of stride, but that won't happen in the NHL. The rest of the year in the O, and a summer of explosive skating training is what he needs before he will be able to adjust to the speed of the NHL.
While I would prefer him to stay in the OHL for this season, his skating defficiencies are getting a little overblown. He needs to work on his first four steps but his skating is definitely passible at the NHL level right now as he is probably faster than Cammalleri, Ryder, Latendresse, Ribeiro etc. (picking on the ex habs).

That being said, he will only make slight improvements over a summer in this area. It is a cumulative effort over multiple seasons to make significant gains in speed. I think some people on here treat a players attributes like they would in NHL13........

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01-04-2013, 12:51 PM
  #942
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They aren't a lot of top-3 picks anymore that aren't in the NHL as teenagers. Maybe Detroit and LA haven't had a lot of top-3 picks. But it would be a bit of an exception if Galchenyuk wasn't on the team next season, at least. This season is a bit of a special case, given his pre-draft injury, given the lockout. Next season is not in any doubt at all...
Detroit may not have had any top 5 picks but players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg were clearly top 5 talents that went unnoticed due to lack of exposure. They clearly knew what they had the following season after their draft, especially in Datsyuk's case. Detroit also let Kronwall stay in the minors far longer than any other team would and have done the same with Brendan Smith.

I fully expect Galchenyuk to be given every chance to make the team next season due to the CHL rule where he can't play in the AHL. I believe he will be far too good next season to be left to play Junior hockey.

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01-04-2013, 12:56 PM
  #943
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While I would prefer him to stay in the OHL for this season, his skating defficiencies are getting a little overblown. He needs to work on his first four steps but his skating is definitely passible at the NHL level right now as he is probably faster than Cammalleri, Ryder, Latendresse, Ribeiro etc. (picking on the ex habs).

That being said, he will only make slight improvements over a summer in this area. It is a cumulative effort over multiple seasons to make significant gains in speed. I think some people on here treat a players attributes like they would in NHL13........
Well I am only basing my opinion on what I have seen from him personally, not anything else. His acceleration is poor, this is a fact. His acceleration is worse than a lot of players in the WJC in fact.

This becomes a problem for when jumping to the NHL. Now, Gally has the ability to slow down the game quite well, this will help. However, he is still a puck possession player and his lack of acceleration is going to make his bread and butter (stickhanding and shiftyness) MUCH harder to accomplish in the NHL. If you take out or diminish his bread and butter, his value definitely goes down because his whole game is literally tied to that attribute.

Everything is faster in the NHL, you have less time to make every play. If you are already behind the ball on explosiveness, this is going to hurt.

It's not a huge cause for concern though, it can be improved. Hossa had similar problems when he first started in the NHL. But I just don't think he is quite ready yet.

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01-04-2013, 01:01 PM
  #944
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Both option can be good for him.

But if he's not out of place in the NHL I hope they keep him. I don't mind if don't produce right away. Playing with pros and learning the NHL will help a skill and intelligent player like him.

IMO he will learn faster in the NHL

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01-04-2013, 01:03 PM
  #945
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Detroit may not have had any top 5 picks but players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg were clearly top 5 talents that went unnoticed due to lack of exposure. They clearly knew what they had the following season after their draft, especially in Datsyuk's case. Detroit also let Kronwall stay in the minors far longer than any other team would and have done the same with Brendan Smith.

I fully expect Galchenyuk to be given every chance to make the team next season due to the CHL rule where he can't play in the AHL. I believe he will be far too good next season to be left to play Junior hockey.
That's basically the point. There is nowhere else to leave the majority of top-3 NHL draft picks from junior. They are getting picked at 18 and they are in the NHL as teenagers, because there is nowhere else (sensible) to go. Can't really rewind to Yzerman or Primeau or whoever as comparables for Detroit, it is too far back, so we can't really say what they would do today with a top-3 pick today. With a talented Russian or Swedish pro player or NCAA player, who do have development options at higher levels... they obviously have a well-earned reputation for patience. But it's also chicken and egg... if your team has a top-3 draft pick, most times your team has room to play them as a teenager, of course.

I'll bet that Detroit - or LA - would, just like Montreal, have Galchenyuk in the NHL next season rather than in Sarnia.

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01-04-2013, 01:04 PM
  #946
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I'd like Bergevin to follow the LA model. They left their prospects in the AHL for a long time until they were all ready to make the jump together. Galchenyuk shouldn't be called up until we have a chance to make a push, which may be next season if we're given the chance to buyout Gomez and Kaberle this summer. We have enough guys to fill in in the mean time: Bourque, Gionta, Armstrong, Prust, Nokelainen, etc. They may suck but that's a good thing right now.

Then we can call up Galchenyuk, Leblanc, Gallagher, Tinordi and Beaulieu next season, and likely Collberg, Kristo and Ellis the year after. And whoever we draft this year whenever he's ready.
While Galchenyuk is a star quality propect,could easily be #1 out of his classmen from 2012.The Habs should bring him along slowly,instead of rushing him in,so that they might squeak into a playoff spot IMO.LA Kings on the other hand didn't do this with their studs like Doughty and Kopitar,for Schenn,Voinov,Kozun,Weal,Vey,Loktionov and Martinez they certainly have taken that approach and the benefits are clearly seen.Lombardi is a smart GM and so is Bergevin,I believe the Habs will benefit more by the slow approach and more icetime in the OHL for Galchenyuk.Letting him have another summer and a couple more camps before breaking him into the lineup next season will be better for his development.This is why they built a development team,to avoid rushing players and doing harm to their careers.

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01-04-2013, 01:08 PM
  #947
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Well I am only basing my opinion on what I have seen from him personally, not anything else. His acceleration is poor, this is a fact. His acceleration is worse than a lot of players in the WJC in fact.

This becomes a problem for when jumping to the NHL. Now, Gally has the ability to slow down the game quite well, this will help. However, he is still a puck possession player and his lack of acceleration is going to make his bread and butter (stickhanding and shiftyness) MUCH harder to accomplish in the NHL. If you take out or diminish his bread and butter, his value definitely goes down because his whole game is literally tied to that attribute.

Everything is faster in the NHL, you have less time to make every play. If you are already behind the ball on explosiveness, this is going to hurt.

It's not a huge cause for concern though, it can be improved. Hossa had similar problems when he first started in the NHL. But I just don't think he is quite ready yet.
Hossa was very fast before he entered the NHL, the only question that scouts had was his willingness to play physical and go to the dirty areas.

Galchenyuk is no worse than average as a skater but he looked slower in the WJC because the U.S. has by far the fastest team in the tournament. You have to remember that these are virtually all star teams that are playing in this tournament and most skaters on the States are faster than the average NHLer.

I would say that he is currently faster and much stronger than Ribeiro, who plays an effective puck possession game.....

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01-04-2013, 01:11 PM
  #948
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That's basically the point. There is nowhere else to leave the majority of top-3 NHL draft picks from junior. They are getting picked at 18 and they are in the NHL as teenagers, because there is nowhere else (sensible) to go. Can't really rewind to Yzerman or Primeau or whoever as comparables for Detroit, it is too far back, so we can't really say what they would do today with a top-3 pick today. With a talented Russian or Swedish pro player or NCAA player, who do have development options at higher levels... they obviously have a well-earned reputation for patience. But it's also chicken and egg... if your team has a top-3 draft pick, most times your team has room to play them as a teenager, of course.

I'll bet that Detroit - or LA - would, just like Montreal, have Galchenyuk in the NHL next season rather than in Sarnia.
You may very well be right..........very good point!

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01-04-2013, 01:20 PM
  #949
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Obviously, Galchenyuk should spend the 2013-2014 season in Montreal, because the NHL has an agreement with the AHL that prevents him from going to the AHL, which would be better for his development.

But for the remainder of this season, a rebuilding / transition / tanking / evaluation season, he should stay in Sarnia, maybe have a deep playoff run.

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01-04-2013, 01:36 PM
  #950
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Does anyone know why OHL palyers can't play in the AHL until 21?

Seems rather stupid when the only options are Junior hockey or the NHL, while older players have more options.

shutehinside is offline  
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