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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #876
GoSensGo765
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**** all of them!! Dragging out this process until the last possible second is just yet another slap in the face to all fans. We deserve so much better than this.

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01-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post
I get that. But he has had no choice in this when you look at the numbers in 1994 and 2004.

This one was poorly handled by Gary and his team and the owners really. They should have started prepping the players on the NHL financials back in 2009 or so. They should have never assumed the NHL players would trust them just because they changed the paradigm in 2004 and helped change the league's direction and make the players boat loads of cash.

I think they assumed the players would be like ok well last time you asked for a big rollback within a couple years we made more money than ever before and still have 100 mil+ raises as a group yearly. The players apparently do not value that or something. I would think most groups of employees would love to make 100 million more per yer.



So you think the NHL should be at 70/30 for the players or what?
The NHL and 'Gary' did try to prep the players/create a working relationship with the NHLPA. Read into the whole Paul Kelly saga. The NHL tried to create a working relationship with Kelly (who was then the executive director of the NHLPA). The hardliner group of the NHLPA didn't like it, though Kelly was getting too 'cozy' with the NHL, and had Kelly fired in the famous 3 am firing. They then went and hired Fehr, not exactly know. With working well with leagues and owners. Part of the distrust likely still dates back to the whole Eagleson ordeal, despite none of the current PA me where being around back when that happened.

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01-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
man I wish a bunch of us fans could walk into their respective rooms and just toss all our merchandise at them, and tell them to **** themselves !
A couple of nights ago the Calgary fire department had to put out a pile of burning hockey sticks at some place in the southeast part of the city. I seriously thought the house belonged to a member of the Flames.

Link: http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/hock...383/story.html

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01-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
So what exactly is the conversation?

Mediator: Don, do you want to go talk with the league?

Don: No.

Mediator: Why not?

Don: Because it's cold outside.

Mediator: OK then. You'd be late anyway.
No indication that the NHL wants to meet either...

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01-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #880
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I know I have been down this road with you before vanwest and, at times, I am somewhat compelled by your arguments. You state that the owners stand to do much better under the new CBA...there is no new CBA. Billionaires and millionaires, the wealthy businessmen you speak of do not get that way by allowing their employees to dictate the terms of their employment. Furthermore, you cannot group all of these owners into one group that all stand to lose 100's of millions of dollars. It's already been established that the top handful of teams make the lion's share of the dollars in the NHL while the remainder break even or show loss.

If you want to argue your position for say, the Toronto Maple Leafs, then I may agree with you. Or even the Rangers. But as a whole, your assessment of these wealthy business people tossing away hundreds of millions of dollars away is off target. What good is 200 million dollars if your operating costs are 205 million?? How many wealthy people do you know that are willing to operate a segment of their business knowing they are going to lose money and still do it anyways? I would guess the answer is none or few, the few being the previously wealthy.
You need to look at it under a new CBA not the old. There could be a new CBA tomorrow. Assume the worst case scenario that the owners give on every remaining issue. Even then they still stand to collectively make hundreds of millions. It doesn't matter to me what they made under the old CBA. You need to look at what they would make under a new CBA. I agree with your statement that the owners are all in different positions. But if I am making millions of dollars and have an asset worth hundreds of millions of dollars why would I cancel a season over an issue like pensions? It's simply not rational to risk a valuable asset that way. One more lost season means more than just foregone revenue this year.
Like I said they may personally hate Fehr and his tactics but they make deals with people they hate all of the time. It's business.

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01-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
My brother is a 22 year season ticket holder for NYR. He cancelled at the start of the lockout apalled that the two sides couldnt't iron it out. He'll never go back at this point. Not that he wont watch, but...he certainly won't be chucking out $10k per season anymore to support them.

Thinking of the momney aspect. Watching a game from home is about a $250-300 swing at least for Rangers games.

Ticket to the game $110 x2 if the wifey comes
Train ticket $23
Beers $75-100
Food $20.

Staying home...12 pack, and a pizza. $35.
Even less if you watch it on TV by your own or without food with mates and they bring booze. I could understand going but I think I'd probably only go once in a while.

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01-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #882
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Or maybe bad contracts are an accepted evil that most will deal with but will jump on a redo if given to them?
Outside of hitting the cap floor(which was a another invention of the owners), why does it have to be an accepted evil? There are probably lots of GMs who truly don't feel as if they have a bad contract on their team that would require the dismantling of their team.

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01-04-2013, 01:39 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
It is true guys, cant source it for you.

I am fine with having it removed, but the everyday guys like us on the street roll their eyes over what these 2 frikkin sides argue over. I just hope this thing gets resolved like the rest of us.
If it is true then let them burn. It would be impossible to defend that as a rational and good faith item in a billion dollar negotiation and would be a clear indication that member(s) of the NHLPA are not being serious about these negotiations.

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01-04-2013, 01:39 PM
  #884
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Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...81772125904896

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01-04-2013, 01:39 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
ie lack of foresight and self control
Is it a surprise to anyone that mistakes get made? While GM's are highly paid - their job is REALLY difficult. Predicting how some 18 YO kid is going to develop, or how a 30 YO UFA is going to produce over the next 8 years is REALLY, REALLY difficult. Add in an incredible amount of pressure to put a winning product on the ice, and mistakes will be made.

Taking that personal is ludicrious. How can it come to a surprise to a PA member that a team might not like the Redden, Finger or Olesz contracts? Or if you'd like some less extreme examples how about the Leino and Komisarik contracts. That's enough to get made about? Those NHLPA member aren't producing like expected, and they're getting mad at the GM's?

ESPECIALLY, when the punishment is collecting 66% of the remaining contract value, and not having any cap hit. If Gomez is bought out, the Habs will have a total of $14M more cap dollars available to pay them with, and that's somehow seen as a "bad thing"? I really don't understand the NHLPA at this point. I understand not liking or trusting the owners, but this is getting ridiculous. Put your big boy pants on and do what is best for you in the long term. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face, and do it because of hubris and ego.

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01-04-2013, 01:39 PM
  #886
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Andy Strickland‏@andystrickland https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...81772125904896

#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

Holy ****.... if true

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01-04-2013, 01:40 PM
  #887
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Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

Is this his opinion or is this a know fact?? If true this is huge and we will almost certainly have hockey

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01-04-2013, 01:40 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
man I wish a bunch of us fans could walk into their respective rooms and just toss all our merchandise at them, and tell them to **** themselves !

Great idea...Imagine getting a hundred or so fans together to walk into the negotiations with a jersey on. Take it off, toss it on the floor and just walk out.

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01-04-2013, 01:40 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Kopistar View Post
Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...81772125904896
Will that take 48 hours? Or will that be done instantly.

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01-04-2013, 01:40 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Kopistar View Post
Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...81772125904896
When is the deadline? The 11th?

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01-04-2013, 01:40 PM
  #891
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It's too bad we didn't just organize a mass gathering of hockey fans outside of the league offices for this weekend. Even if it didn't do anything, it would be nice to get 1000 people to stand in solidarity and show the league & players how disgusted they are.

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01-04-2013, 01:40 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
A couple of nights ago the Calgary fire department had to put out a pile of burning hockey sticks at some place in the southeast part of the city. I seriously thought the house belonged to a member of the Flames.

Link: http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/hock...383/story.html
there`s an idea....burn hockey sticks and jerseys in a garbage can outside the NHL offices !

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:41 PM
  #893
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Players would be allowed to vote, well that's good news! Let's all fast forward to next week!

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01-04-2013, 01:41 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by CheerstoBeers View Post
Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

Is this his opinion or is this a know fact?? If true this is huge and we will almost certainly have hockey
How can they vote on something if they don't have a union representing them?

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:41 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Fehr was hired because Bettman was too aggressive to the players for 2 decades. He was brought in to beat them back into place after they went on strike in 92. Labor relations are awful, largely because of him, and it led to Fehr being hired so the PA could have their own attack dog. The PA didn't decide to hire Fehr and go to war just for fun one day.

If Bettman thought that antagonizing Fehr with the opening offer would be a fantastic idea and some sort of payback for hiring Fehr, then it doesn't cast Bettman in a positive light.
In 14 years the average player salary very nearly doubled. They have little room to complain about mean ol' Bettman when his 'hardline' approach has led to vastly increased revenues, and maintaining unprofitable teams (which means lots of players' jobs) by taking money from the richest owners.

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01-04-2013, 01:41 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Andy Strickland‏@andystrickland https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...81772125904896

#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

Holy ****.... if true


That's awesome, I hope it's true.

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01-04-2013, 01:41 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Andy Strickland‏@andystrickland https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...81772125904896

#NHL players will have a chance to vote on whatever offer exists at the deadline...players give me the impression they'll vote to play

Holy ****.... if true
Good. Hopefully common sense wins out over the god damn religious-style dogma the upper end of the PA has been spewing since this began. Players need to realize they have it pretty great, get the best offer they can, and get back on the ice. So sick of this union ********.

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01-04-2013, 01:42 PM
  #898
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Players would be allowed to vote, well that's good news! Let's all fast forward to next week!
yeah I don`t see it as good news, if Fehr has these bone heads believing they`re being wronged, they`ll vote against accepting it.

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01-04-2013, 01:43 PM
  #899
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Outside of hitting the cap floor(which was a another invention of the owners), why does it have to be an accepted evil? There are probably lots of GMs who truly don't feel as if they have a bad contract on their team that would require the dismantling of their team.
Well why don't we just toss out the cap floor then? Sure let's do it

Dismantling is a strong word, but any team who doesn't currently feel like they have a bad contract will eventually feel that way if they have a Pronger or Savard issue pop up.

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01-04-2013, 01:43 PM
  #900
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If 1000 people actually got together to make a statement outside the NHL offices they would come out and say "we tried to negotiate a deal to get the game back on the ice but you guys were too loud and we couldn't concentrate"

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