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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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01-04-2013, 01:48 PM
  #926
vanwest
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Clearly, there were preconditions that came with the lack of preconditions.
Well said! LOL!

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01-04-2013, 01:48 PM
  #927
T-Funk
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Originally Posted by Bagel Bites View Post
Any player who would leak something like that to the press is the new Biggest Idiot in the Whole Process
I think Hamrlik is pretty smart don't you?

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01-04-2013, 01:48 PM
  #928
SERE 24
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People keep saying they can't vote if the union isn't representing them, but there's no indication that it won't be. Just because they've brought the DOI vote up again doesn't mean they'll file this time either. Moreover, it's Strickland and it's as likely untrue as true.

But seriously, we could have organized a silent gathering in protest outside of the office. Just hundreds of fans with signs when they go in/out, look out the window, etc. Give the media something to do as well, showing footage of the disgruntled fans, snapping pics for their twitter updates and even interviewing angry fans from the crowd. Could have put some pressure on the process or at least made the fans seem less like doormats.

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01-04-2013, 01:49 PM
  #929
Ziggy Stardust
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The mediator is finding out that he is dealing with children here.

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01-04-2013, 01:50 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
They can't vote if you have no union.
DOI doesn't break up the union, just removes those representing the union.

Decertification would break up the union, but they are not voting on that and it takes much longer to accomplish.

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01-04-2013, 01:50 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
Outside of hitting the cap floor(which was a another invention of the owners), why does it have to be an accepted evil? There are probably lots of GMs who truly don't feel as if they have a bad contract on their team that would require the dismantling of their team.
I believe the cap floor was an invention of the players...the owners would be fine without a cap floor.

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01-04-2013, 01:50 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Is the union representing them at the moment?
Yes.

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01-04-2013, 01:50 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The mediator is finding out that he is dealing with children here.
Mediator is too mature of a position to call this man, he should be described as the "babysitter".

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01-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #934
njdevil26
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I'll stand by the NHL's front door tomorrow with a sign that says

"Selling two tickets to the Devils/Penguins game tonight. None of you care, why should I?"

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01-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #935
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I think the mediator is the best thing we can have at the moment - there's obviously some burrs in the saddles of both sides (the PA thinking the league has pulled a bait and switch, the league accusing Fehr of witholding crucial elements). Having a middle man go between them to soften tone, message, etc. is probably for the best so tempers don't flare.

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01-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #936
vanwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The mediator is finding out that he is dealing with children here.
True. Between Fehr and Bettman he probably is getting frustrated.

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
I'll stand by the NHL's front door tomorrow with a sign that says

"Selling two tickets to the Devils/Penguins game tonight. None of you care, why should I?"
Good luck getting past security.

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01-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #938
Ugene Malkin
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
Look, I'm not saying arena employees are useless. I've always had good experiences with the ones I've dealt with, and I appreciate their competence. I don't begrudge them their paychecks. They earn them.

But their contribution to the NHL experience is on a basic level and could be fulfilled by someone else if they decide their time is worth more than the team is willing to pay. They could be replaced and the same level of service would be provided.

That's not the same with the players (or even replacement football officials, as we all saw in fall). There is "talent" that people pay to see, and there are employees who are paid to deliver a service to people.

It's really missing the mark to broadly compare NHL players with bartenders, waitresses and janitors in terms of the leverage their skills afford them in negotiations and their compensation.
I understand where you're coming from, but those same players are recycled when there usefulness has passed, no?

The NHL is a packaged deal, you don't get any one single part without efforts from all of the parts. Your $8000.00 pays for part of that overall package even though you only care about the main characters. Take away the smaller characters and I assure you would be showing your frustration just as easily when you are inconvenienced at the cost of your investment in your seats.

Look at it like a timeshare on the beach. You are there for the beach and view, but the room you seen in the brochure on line shows a nice and neat place for you to come back too after a long day out and about, but there are marks on the wall, the carpets were not swept, the beds were not changed. You prepaid anywhere from $1500.00 to $3000.00 for a week or more of this. Would you not be frustrated and pissed off, and you can't switch rooms, (This isn't a hotel; just like you can't switch your seats), you get one maid service half way through, it's a package deal.

You paid for a package that has all the parts included, but you're really there for the view and the beach.

I care about the entire package when I engage with activities. So should everyone or that package deal goes south for everyone.

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01-04-2013, 01:52 PM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagel Bites View Post
Any player who would leak something like that to the press is the new Biggest Idiot in the Whole Process
I don't think that's a leak - just common sense. Except for what is involved with the pension (which details aren't publically available and could definetely be significant) any reasonble person would laugh at the difference in the remaining issues on the table at this point in time. I bet an overwhelming majority of players would accept what is on the table right now and start playing as soon as possible to minimize the salary lost.

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01-04-2013, 01:52 PM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Michael Grange‏@michaelgrange https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/st...83716806549506

#NHL and #NHLPA continue to meet independently with the mediator who in turn is shuttling back and forth between sites

Guys. There is a huge element of negotiating when there is a mediator involved. Relax.
I disagree. If they were serious about negotiating, they'd be in the same room together.

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:52 PM
  #941
njdevil26
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Originally Posted by MillarWithASave View Post
Good luck getting past security.
You mean good luck standing on a sidewalk in New York City with a sign that's perfectly legal?

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #942
billybudd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The mediator is finding out that he is dealing with children here.
I just feel bad for the poor guy. Playing "telephone" because grown men are too immature to talk to each other directly.

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The mediator is finding out that he is dealing with children here.
Couldn't agree more. This behaviour is reminiscent of 5-year-olds fighting over a toy. I can't believe grown men are actually acting this way.

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01-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #944
Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
True. Between Fehr and Bettman he probably is getting frustrated.
I would hope someone who is a federal mediator would have experience dealing with two petulant, egotistical ass hats who think they are right before. Isn't that why mediation happens in the first place?

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01-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #945
Scottyk9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
I disagree. If they were serious about negotiating, they'd be in the same room together.
It's okay if you don't understand the process.

Shuttling is used when both sides have some animosity towards each other and the mediator decides its best if he acts as a bridge.

The fact that one side hasn't walked out shows urgency that both still want a deal.

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01-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #946
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as many of said, CBA negotiations + twitter=

these types of buisness deals are not meant for play by play analysis. I know the reporters are doing their job, but its a pointless exercise.

Nothing will happen until the 11th. Its as clear as day.

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:56 PM
  #947
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I wish Clint Eastwood was the mediator

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:56 PM
  #948
TCsmyth
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Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara View Post
If it is true then let them burn. It would be impossible to defend that as a rational and good faith item in a billion dollar negotiation and would be a clear indication that member(s) of the NHLPA are not being serious about these negotiations.
I think there is lots of blame to go around for both sides and their pettiness...just is ridiculous already

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:56 PM
  #949
Mike Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Michael Grange‏@michaelgrange https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/st...83716806549506

#NHL and #NHLPA continue to meet independently with the mediator who in turn is shuttling back and forth between sites

Guys. There is a huge element of negotiating when there is a mediator involved. Relax.
Hmmm. Shuttle diplomacy. It's how Kissinger liked to work.

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:56 PM
  #950
T-Funk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I just feel bad for the poor guy. Playing "telephone" because grown men are too immature to talk to each other directly.
He did choose the career that basically requires him to play telephone I'm assuming 80% of the time.

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