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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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01-04-2013, 03:06 PM
  #976
HavlatMach9
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The NHL has a deadline is place. If Fehr believes it's a fake deadline, I won't be surprised if he continues to play games with the league. It's too much to expect Fehr and Bettman to come to a deal before a deadline so the deadline is going to be a mess. If only they could both be reasonable.

Fehr's strategy: Offer unreasonable proposals right up to cancellation deadline, reject each of NHL's proposal
Bettmans strategy: Offer a more reasonable proposal, then concede things very, very slowly, no dramatic changes

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01-04-2013, 03:06 PM
  #977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Well, what he's doing (negotiating parties in separate locations) is called "classic mediation." I can't say for certain, but it seems to me that if that was how things were normally done in mediation, it wouldn't need that descriptor. It would just be called "mediation."
I was wondering when the semantics argument of the day was coming...

Guess it depends whether he meant it as "prototypical, representative, standard, time-honored, typical, usual" or "archaic, obsolete, olden, outdated, vintage"

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01-04-2013, 03:07 PM
  #978
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The vote would make a lot of sense. It's their money Fehr is playing with. So it would only make sense they get the final vote.

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01-04-2013, 03:07 PM
  #979
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So the PA is mad because they think that with the disclaimer deadline passing, the league's demeanour changed, particularly with the issue of the HRR penalties. But how is it that the PA attributes the HRR penalties to the disclaimer deadline when those HRR penalty changes were in the proposal they received last week BEFORE the deadline had even come and gone?

It seems like the only reason the issue came up after the deadline is because it took the PA that long to notice it.

Based on Millard and Kyper's description of the PA attitude right now, it seems more than anything the players are mad because they have to wipe some egg off their face because of the decisions they made with their leverage in the process.

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01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
The vote would make a lot of sense. It's their money Fehr is playing with. So it would only make sense they get the final vote.
Makes you think why they haven't asked to vote on it earlier.

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01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Did Strickland give his source? Lavoie had a similar information in early December that the players would get to vote on an offer. I believe we never got the source and the news died down... I assume it must come from the PA's Executive Board because they would have the authority to force a vote by the membership on a proposal? Please, we want that source!
I think we just mistranslated the Lavoie article last month. I don't think that the vote in December was actually ever a thing.

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01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
I'll be in the city tomorrow. Heading to the boat show at the Javits. I think I might head to the NHL offices and just toss an old Rangers sweater on the floor. Why not?
I'm serious I'll be there... PM me if you're going to go.

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01-04-2013, 03:09 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
I bet you wont last 5 minutes before security gets rid of you.
Standing on the sidewalk in New York City with a non-vulgar sign is 100% legal my friend.

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01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Wrong wrong wrong so 100% wrong.

Fehr sued the hell out of MLB for not paying absolutely maximum escalation value on salaries and made them pay a quarter billion in collusion fees.

If owners don't recklessly spend, Fehr will sue them.


Get it??
That's an amazing way of describing how the owners illegally colluded to keep salaries low.

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01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #985
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Whether or not they play this year, the NHL is in serious serious trouble. Look how long it took mlb to recover from the stoppage in 1994 and NHL is nowhere near as popular as MLB

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01-04-2013, 03:11 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
It's okay if you don't understand the process.

Shuttling is used when both sides have some animosity towards each other and the mediator decides its best if he acts as a bridge.

The fact that one side hasn't walked out shows urgency that both still want a deal.
Thanks for your condescending comment.

But the fact remains, they can play telephone all weekend long, but until they get in the same room, nothing is getting done.

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01-04-2013, 03:11 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schabadoo View Post
That's an amazing way of describing how the owners illegally colluded to keep salaries low.
Nope. They collectively bargained it with a union....

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01-04-2013, 03:12 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Should've been done after every offer.
I see why they wouldn't have wanted that before because it would've weakened their position, but I see no reason why they wouldn't take a vote to help stop a season being lost.

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01-04-2013, 03:12 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Standing on the sidewalk in New York City with a non-vulgar sign is 100% legal my friend.
Certainly is...

When Rangers fans held that little fire Sather rally a few years back there were plenty of signs, some of them not so nive either. Security was there leughing with them.

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01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
  #990
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Hell I will go stand outside the NHL offices from 7-9:30 tomorrow night with a sign that says "Devils should be playing the Penguins right now. You left us out in the cold."

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01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Did Strickland give his source? Lavoie had a similar information in early December that the players would get to vote on an offer. I believe we never got the source and the news died down... I assume it must come from the PA's Executive Board because they would have the authority to force a vote by the membership on a proposal? Please, we want that source!
If Laviole had that too I'd be more apt to believe it but at this point I trust Fehr and the PA hard liners so little I think the vote would be rigged, if possible. Or the final offer would be made to look worse than it is so it gets voted down.

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01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
Hope the owners offer 60/40, no make whole, reduced pensions, 5 year limits, 5% variance. i am also a fan of a small market team.
So you hope for no NHL season?

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01-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #993
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People saying security will have a problem, etc, obviously don't live in America, or forget the fact that we have the right to peaceful protests in America.

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01-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Certainly is...

When Rangers fans held that little fire Sather rally a few years back there were plenty of signs, some of them not so nive either. Security was there leughing with them.
I will seriously work hand in hand with Ranger fans if we can all organize a group to demonstrate...


THAT is how upset I am... I will work with Ranger fans.

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01-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Did Strickland give his source? Lavoie had a similar information in early December that the players would get to vote on an offer. I believe we never got the source and the news died down... I assume it must come from the PA's Executive Board because they would have the authority to force a vote by the membership on a proposal? Please, we want that source!
I believe Lavoie's information was that the players would have 3 options, one of which was to vote on what the current proposal was at the time.

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01-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Hell I will go stand outside the NHL offices from 7-9:30 tomorrow night with a sign that says "Devils should be playing the Penguins right now. You left us out in the cold."
Please do this and take pictures.

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01-04-2013, 03:15 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
I'll stand by the NHL's front door tomorrow with a sign that says

"Selling two tickets to the Devils/Penguins game tonight. None of you care, why should I?"
I don't care, I'll stand in front of the NHL league offices in protest, but I don't care.

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01-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #998
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Old
01-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
The only year the players on average ever took a pay cut was after the last lockout, where they were offered better and still didn't play the whole year. It only took 3 seasons for the average salary to get back to almost EXACTLY where it was the year before the lockout (a record high, and then continued to increase by $14 million/team over the next 4 years.

The only reason players would feel hard-done by is if they think they have some inalienable right to always make more money, even if it jeopardizes the existence of shaky franchises. In which case Bettman put them through an entire three seasons of not making more money while insuring that no teams folded. Which means the league maintained the same number of jobs for players. While overall increasing salaries significantly...at the expense of owners' profits.
He hasn't always been honest with the players either. the PA offered a 24% rollback in salaries in exchange for no cap...Bettman said thanks, we'll take that, AND implement the cap. That kind of thing will kill labor relations.

Edit: oops, haha.

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