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NHL Lockout Discussion XLV: Heard It Through The Grapevine....

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01-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #1
ColePens
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NHL Lockout Discussion XLV: Heard It Through The Grapevine....

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Thread title credit: Cheesesteak Invictus


Last edited by ColePens: 01-04-2013 at 02:06 PM.
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Old
01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
  #2
Lucbourdon
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how can you vote if you have no union

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01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
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T-Funk
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Why are they meditating all day?! Let's get a deal done!

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01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
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schabadoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Nope. They collectively bargained it with a union....
No they didn't. Here, since you seem very confused:

"Players shall not act in concert with other Players and Clubs shall not act in concert with other Clubs." Then Ueborroth came in and told the owners not to offer any contracts longer than three years, and not to sign another team's free agents.

They did the exact opposite of what they bargained. And lost in court because of it.

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01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
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No one here can say they don't care. We now missed three plus months of the season and yet we are all procrastinating at our jobs (hopefull y'all have jobs) sitting on a message board complaining emotionally about not being able to watch the game we love. I played all kinds of hockey, covered high school and college hockey for a news paper, live paycheck to paycheck to go to Devils games.

Hockey is my life. This is absurd, unfair, and downright insulting. I don't care if I'm the only person out there tomorrow. I will MAKE SURE they know how I feel... peacefully of course... I won't accomplish anything by showing up and getting tossed out.

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01-04-2013, 02:19 PM
  #6
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Remember some rules:

- No spamming

- Always get a link to whatever twitter post or article you post

- Please be cordial with one another. We are all on the same team of wanting hockey back. Frustrations are at an all time high... let's agree to disagree and move on.

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01-04-2013, 02:19 PM
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GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
how can you vote if you have no union
I think the NHL can sign a waiver allowing Brothers Fehr to still negotiate on their behalf and it may have something to do with them being able to vote

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01-04-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
how can you vote if you have no union
The union won't be disbanding

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01-04-2013, 02:20 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schabadoo View Post
No they didn't. Here, since you seem very confused:

"Players shall not act in concert with other Players and Clubs shall not act in concert with other Clubs." Then Ueborroth came in and told the owners not to offer any contracts longer than three years, and not to sign another team's free agents.

They did the exact opposite of what they bargained. And lost in court because of it.
Oh. I thought it was a more general reference to how owners and leagues keep salaries down rather than specific to the MLB. My bad.

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01-04-2013, 02:21 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
No one here can say they don't care. We now missed three plus months of the season and yet we are all procrastinating at our jobs (hopefull y'all have jobs) sitting on a message board complaining emotionally about not being able to watch the game we love. I played all kinds of hockey, covered high school and college hockey for a news paper, live paycheck to paycheck to go to Devils games.

Hockey is my life. This is absurd, unfair, and downright insulting. I don't care if I'm the only person out there tomorrow. I will MAKE SURE they know how I feel... peacefully of course... I won't accomplish anything by showing up and getting tossed out.
YES! This is why I think it's odd to fervently take any one side in this. As fans, we should be taking our own side and looking at what we want...and in that situation, both the owners and the players are preventing us from watching hockey. Both have screwed up. Both are the enemy here.

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01-04-2013, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
how can you vote if you have no union
You cant

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01-04-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Why are they meditating all day?! Let's get a deal done!
I know that's not what you meant, but the thought of the bunch of them doing this cross-legged on the floor in spandex is simultaneously hilarious and horrifying.

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01-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #13
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so no plans for meeting today? sounds like they both wanna stall for a couple more days to get the last few details in their favor.

I think the deal is as good as done, I just think the PA wants that cap higher and more pension benefits, and they're willing to stretch this to the last minute to get that.

EDIT: I must say this is quite boring to watch! it feels like quite a grind with only tiny movement happening each day, might have to wait another week for them to agree to a deal at this pace.

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01-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #14
schabadoo
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Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Oh. I thought it was a more general reference to how owners and leagues keep salaries down rather than specific to the MLB. My bad.
Sorry, didn't mean to jump on you.

The other poster was referring to MLB losing their multiple collusion cases, and somehow got everything wrong.

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01-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Michael Grange‏@michaelgrange https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/st...83716806549506

#NHL and #NHLPA continue to meet independently with the mediator who in turn is shuttling back and forth between sites

Guys. There is a huge element of negotiating when there is a mediator involved. Relax.
This man speaks the truth....
It's obvious some (a lot) of you do not know how mediation works.

I have been involved in mediation several times - you sit in one room with your lawyers, representatives, etc - the other party sits in their room.
The mediator comes into your room, you tell him your offer and maybe explain how you came to that figure. He then takes that info to the other party, explains it to them, then leaves the room for them to digest it, go over it, etc.
When they're ready, they summon the mediator back, tell him their counter-offer, explain why they came to their figure.
The mediator then comes back to your room, tells you the other side's counter-offer, then leaves the room for you to go over it....and on and on it goes, until a settlement is reached or they at least get a little closer, and agree to meet again.

Now, because of the sheer size of the agreement they are trying to reach, with all the variables that factor in, $$$, etc., it's going to take a little while.

Really, this is a good thing they're continously meeting with the mediator and he's been actively been going back and forth.

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01-04-2013, 02:23 PM
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My understanding is that disclaimer of interest is not the same as decertification, meaning that even if DOI is filed there will still be a union.

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01-04-2013, 02:24 PM
  #17
T-Funk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langdon Alger View Post
I know that's not what you meant, but the thought of the bunch of them doing this cross-legged in spandex is simultaneously hilarious and horrifying.
No I meant it as a joke

Although that does seem to be exactly what they are doing.

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01-04-2013, 02:24 PM
  #18
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NHLFA should totally become less useless and get a seat in the negotiations.

Maybe they could control the key to the meeting room door too.

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01-04-2013, 02:24 PM
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If the union votes on a proposal and it flies them Hamrlik can get busy wiping the egg off of his brethren faces. Too funny if they chastised him for suggesting it and end up going that route while losing paychecks in the process.

I'll believe it when I see it.

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01-04-2013, 02:26 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Why are they meditating all day?! Let's get a deal done!
Because the player's feelings are hurt, we need a counselor instead of a mediator.

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01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #21
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According to the NHL governor,Gary bettman will cancel the whole season on the 10th if there's no deal in place.

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01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #22
CBJWennberg41
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My understanding is that disclaimer of interest is not the same as decertification, meaning that even if DOI is filed there will still be a union.
No, it would dissolve and become a trade organization.

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01-04-2013, 02:29 PM
  #23
T-Funk
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Here I'll settle this


cBa agREEmeNt:

1. we The PlAyerS giVe GaRY buTTmAn EveRYthInG teh Oners Want
2. hE stoPs BEing mEEn
3. WE GeT a huG

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01-04-2013, 02:29 PM
  #24
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Start protesting dammit.

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:30 PM
  #25
Unstable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Jr Shabadoo View Post
This man speaks the truth....
It's obvious some (a lot) of you do not know how mediation works.

I have been involved in mediation several times - you sit in one room with your lawyers, representatives, etc - the other party sits in their room.
The mediator comes into your room, you tell him your offer and maybe explain how you came to that figure. He then takes that info to the other party, explains it to them, then leaves the room for them to digest it, go over it, etc.
When they're ready, they summon the mediator back, tell him their counter-offer, explain why they came to their figure.
The mediator then comes back to your room, tells you the other side's counter-offer, then leaves the room for you to go over it....and on and on it goes, until a settlement is reached or they at least get a little closer, and agree to meet again.

Now, because of the sheer size of the agreement they are trying to reach, with all the variables that factor in, $$$, etc., it's going to take a little while.

Really, this is a good thing they're continously meeting with the mediator and he's been actively been going back and forth.
Right. A mediator is not an arbiter. An arbiter would decide the issue, as a tribunal, and would make binding decisions. A mediator is there to facilitate conversation and clarity between the parties, and since we know that some of the principals actively dislike and/or hate each other, one way you can facilitate conversation is by shuttling back and forth. Pretty normal stuff, really.

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