HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

What if...(mod: relocation proposal, subsequent effect on HRR)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-04-2013, 01:56 PM
  #51
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,085
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Columbus is not going anywhere.

Florida is not going anywhere.

Regardless of where you move Phoenix, any rise in the HRR that comes from the move will raise the cap and floor level and create problems for a team or teams that are fine now.
Not necessarily true. It all depends on where the other teams are. If there are a bunch of teams that aren't supported that are losing money, and then a gap between them and the rest of the league that are well supported, this could create an ideal league where the range between the top and bottom revenue teams is much smaller. Essentially that is what's needed in order to make the current system work.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 01:57 PM
  #52
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 15,182
vCash: 500
If we wanted to go with wishful thinking, here's what I'd be going for.

Fine, drop 6-10 NHL teams. Form a new league with those teams plus other underserved markets, allow civic ownership, and loosen restrictions on entry-level contracts. Go full-out AFL vs. NFL...choke off the supply of incoming talent to the established league and force them to fill those roster spots with players who are clearly not NHL-caliber. HRR in the NHL is decimated as sponsors and fans flock to see elite young talent.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:08 PM
  #53
DrVanntastic
Registered User
 
DrVanntastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wentzville, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,893
vCash: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Would TO support a second team not called the leafs? People assume they wull--but in talking with people from the TO area and the erea in Onterio being mentioned--they say they are leaf fans and would not supporty another team.

Why not move the Blues? Horrible attendance right now?
Not sure if you're serious or not, but the Blues have far from horrible attendance. In the last 15 years, the team has only had two seasons where you could say they had horrible attendance. Those problems came from Bill Laurie essentially leaving the team in the gutter.

An argument could be made that the Blues can be moved, though probably not a good one. That argument would not include attendance.

DrVanntastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:10 PM
  #54
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
sandy, is there any particular reason why you feel it necessary to single out Columbus, disturbing & upsetting an entire fan base in espousing opinion that is only half formed, selective? Ignoring the realities of gross incompetence in the Executive & General Managers suites combined with a punitive lease & avaricious competitive facility who had agreed to non-compete's but breached their agreement further exacerbating the already tenuous & difficult position the franchise had found itself in?.

Over the past 12-24 months, they have managed to re-write their lease, addressed the issues, hired a new President in the highly respected John Davidson, have found their sea legs, wind returning to the sails. Ohio, despite its low production of actual players over the years has a history of hockey & support thereof that is easily on par with the best that Quebec, Ontario, BC, Michigan or anywhere else you'd care to throw at it in comparison.

Im stumped to understand why you would feel it necessary to continually rub Blue Jacket's fans and or simply the proud residents of the states noses in the past decade of failure as though they are somehow responsible for it, and "undeserving" of their place in the NHL. Its disingenuous. You really need to bone up on your history, and I would suggest you start with the Cleveland Indians, Barons & Falcons, Crusaders etc etc etc, then take a good hard look at what the Blue Jackets have had to suffer through right out of the box.

I will say to this that I wish the NHL stuck it out in Cleveland the way it stuck out in Phoenix. I'd rather my Ohio team be Cleveland since OSU is literally a top 3 college brand nationally. Cleveland to me screams NHL type of city more then Columbus from someone looking in from the outside.

cutchemist42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:14 PM
  #55
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
If we wanted to go with wishful thinking, here's what I'd be going for.

Fine, drop 6-10 NHL teams. Form a new league with those teams plus other underserved markets, allow civic ownership, and loosen restrictions on entry-level contracts. Go full-out AFL vs. NFL...choke off the supply of incoming talent to the established league and force them to fill those roster spots with players who are clearly not NHL-caliber. HRR in the NHL is decimated as sponsors and fans flock to see elite young talent.
I like your league's setup more already.

cutchemist42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
  #56
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Unlike some who look at it as " OMG someone wants to move my team ", I will look at it in the intent it was meant and give MO.

Moving these 3 teams to the markets suggested would result in more revenue for the league. The problem is that just moving teams doesn't solve the NHL's problems ( assuming the current CBA is still being used). It's all connected and linked.... revenue goes up... the cap goes up... the players salaries go up... all that happens is you end up with new teams that become your bottom 3 financially struggling markets. The problem doesn't get fixed just by moving teams, it's a lot more complicated than that.
It *HELPS* to solve the problem
Because the problem isn't that as revenue goes up, salaries go up. The problem is that the top teams are generating revenue much faster than the bottom teams.

So if you can improve the bottom teams, it's a move in the direction of solvingg the problem.

You've reduced the acceleration of the disparity.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:21 PM
  #57
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It *HELPS* to solve the problem
Because the problem isn't that as revenue goes up, salaries go up. The problem is that the top teams are generating revenue much faster than the bottom teams.

So if you can improve the bottom teams, it's a move in the direction of solvingg the problem.

You've reduced the acceleration of the disparity.
Ever wonder how much a Toronto team would help slow the Leafs growth since they were a big factor in this lockout happening due to rapid salary/revenue increases.

cutchemist42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:29 PM
  #58
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Every one of these arguments ends up the same way.
Other person: "Your market is terrible. No one cares."
Me: "Here are the attendance numbers that very clearly refute that."
Other person: "Those numbers are probably fudged."
Me: "You don't know that, don't know who else has done it, and don't know when it was done. That's strictly speculative."
Other person: "They probably had to use promotions to get people to show up."
Me: "Like when Detroit used to give away a new car every game during the height of the Dead Things era?"
Other person: "That's different."
Me: "Why?"
Other person: "Because Gordie Howe used to play there, damn it."
Ah. So why do these teams suck if they have all this support?
Attendance #s? Everyone knows how those are fudged.
Check the local television ratings for a real insight into local interest.
Florida Panthers -- 3,000 households watching?

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:31 PM
  #59
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Ever wonder how much a Toronto team would help slow the Leafs growth since they were a big factor in this lockout happening due to rapid salary/revenue increases.
That too.
And how much a Quebec team cuts into the Habs?
And maybe the Brooklyn team cuts into the Rangers.

So,,, we take cut out of the big teams. We replace the worst teams with better teams.

Anyone wonder about Grand Rapids Michigan as a viable NHL city?

Michigan has a long hockey history. 775000 metro area. Some rich types in Grand Rapids.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:46 PM
  #60
Blue Warriors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 54
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONO94 View Post
Quebec City eats into the profits of Montreal, splitting both revenue from fans and corporations into two different pots. Who are the new corporate sponsor's that Quebec will bring in? What new advertising markets? What new fans are there to grow?
I believe you underestimate the passion of Quebec City and Eastern Canada for hockey and the intense rivalry that would rise again with the Habs. There are tens of thousands of people who either can't get tickets in Montreal or will not spend a dime on Habs tickets or merchandise because they can't stand them. Quebec City is like Winnipeg, the NHL doesn't have to market itself or grow new fans because they 're already there, addicted and waiting patiently to spend money on the product. Bettman et al know that. You are right about corporate sponsors though, there would be few new ones, but Quebecor would be a nice start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONO94 View Post
Phoenix to Seattle might work
Based on your previous arguments, aren't you afraid Seattle would be a saturated market for pro sports, the NHL well behind the NFL, MLB, a new NBA team and even the fast growing MLS?


Last edited by Blue Warriors: 01-04-2013 at 03:08 PM.
Blue Warriors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:49 PM
  #61
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,666
vCash: 500
How is it a fact that they are not moving if the cost to break the lease is a paltry 39 million ?

It might be that they are not likely to move tomorrow ( none of the suitors have a home waiting) but is the out only enforceable in the first year. I cant predict what the labor landscape will look like in three weeks, much less what the jackets will look like in three years. If we lose this year and next, the conventional wisdom is that it will be teams in nontraditional markets will suffer most. If the players decertify ( unlikely but possible) then the discrepancy between the haves and have nots has no ceiling because the cap would be temporarily illegal. columbus can't spend with Toronto and you don't build a young market by being an in league developmental league for teams with money.

If it gets dark ( even not by their doing) and there is no legal protection to force them to stay, why couldn't they leave?

What am I missing? If the cost to break the lease was astronomical I then moving the team would nor be cost effective. But 39 million is not astronomical.

If they don't leave for more lucrative markets and the cap is based on average revenues, the other weak teams will love it as the more failing markets, the less the failing markets have to spend to make the cap floor. Inst this a race to the bottom ( albeit buffered by good markets)?

sandysan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #62
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
If they don't leave for more lucrative markets and the cap is based on average revenues, the other weak teams will love it as the more failing markets, the less the failing markets have to spend to make the cap floor. Inst this a race to the bottom ( albeit buffered by good markets)?
About the only way you could come up with parity on-ice and HRR's would be to eliminate Toronto, the NYR's & Montreal from the equation, determine the average of the remaining 27 teams, then re-constitute the Leafs, Rangers & Habs, leaving them to work within whatever the league average might be, and to Hell with their fans if they dont like it; which most even under the just expired CBA dont like whatsoever. Another methodology would be literally pool all Broadcast fee's from every single team, local, regional & national, splitting them equally amongst all 30 clubs, however, you'd likely have a Mutiny of epic proportions on your hands. Frankly, I dont know what the answer is, Im not an economist, accountant, Lawyer.

But yes, your quite correct, the bottom feeders are driving this ship at this time, and until the League addresses that issue, we'll be right back here again in 6, 7 or 10yrs. Moving teams, which does make sense on a number of levels simply isnt an option the NHL wishes to consider unless absolutely forced to do so, ergo, we have to work with what we've got. Really the only team that seems likely to be on the move at this time would be Phoenix, QC the most likely destination. That leaves 2 spots open in Southern Ontario, Seattle, long shot in Houston, possibly several more were completely unaware of if Bettmans boasts that "a month doesnt go bye that I dont get enquiries about Expansion or Relocation".

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #63
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONO94 View Post
Panthers to TO--destablilize a Sabres franchise which counts on many ticket buyers from Canada to earn revenue--and then see the same analysis as the Quebec City move. And add to both the potential regression of the Canadian Dollar vs. the US dollar and with more teams based in Canada, it would equal more risk to the league as a whole.

Face it, there is only so much money to made in Canada from hockey and with the exception of raising ticket prices, that mark has pretty much been reached.
Canadian Tire, Molson, RIM and other Canadian companies don't need to spend more money on an audience they already control and there aren't any US companies that will pony up more to see a team in QC or TO. And any chance of getting a better TV deal is shot and the revenue streams of selling merchandise to a larger audience are gone.

Basically, short term gain with long term consequenses to the overall health of the league. The idea is to build hockey in North America--not suck more money from the people who are already paying for it.
Not even close. And you're making a huge (and largely incorrect) assumption. By everyone's accounts, a team in Toronto would instantly be in the top 5 (revenue wise) in the league.

Additionally, with the cap tied to HRR, if the Canadian dollar falls (another assumption - as there's no sign of it happening any time soon), revenues will fall with it, and the cap will go down accordingly.

That said, other than perhaps moving Phoenix - a team that's had issues drawing fans despite great on ice success, I wouldn't move any of the teams... simply because it's NOT a long term solution. But I wouldn't hesitate to expand the league to 32 teams with one in Ontario and in Quebec City. Or Seattle if Phoenix moved to one of those locations.

__________________
"I changed the whole game, man," Rinaldo said. "Who knows what the game would have been like if I didn't do what I did?" [after illegally running Letang from behind, slamming his head into the glass]
Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #64
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 30,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
It took until 1930 for pro football to be regarded as equal to college football in terms of level of play. It took until the 1950s to be regarded as a somewhat honorable way to make a living (previously it was regarded as a refuge for ruffians and criminals). It took until the 1990s to overtake baseball, and a large part of that had to do with MLB shooting itself in the foot over much of the preceding 40 years.

The NBA didn't become a truly major sport until the 1980s,
thanks to the entrance of Bird/Magic/Jordan. That was 40 years after the foundation of the league, and 80 years after the first leagues were formed.

MLB actually does apply here. In 1899, the National League (the only major league) eliminated the teams in Baltimore, Cleveland, Louisville, and Washington. A minor league immediately put franchises in those cities, renamed itself the American League, and declared itself to be a second major league. Two years later, an AL team won the first World Series.
Is it possible that people's preferences and tastes/interests changed over such a long period of time? I don't think the NFL really "did" a whole bunch other than to wait for the advent of TV and then get on it on Sundays, when everyone had the day off and was looking for something fun to do. When you're looking at periods that last decades, it doesn't mean anyone really shot themselves in the foot, just that society and interests change.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:23 PM
  #65
MoreOrr
B4
 
MoreOrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mexico
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
So the leagues primary problem is that the leafs rangers and habs run their markets too well?
In a sense, yes. Obviously it's great that they do well. But nevertheless, it is that top-heavy disparity (when calculating salaries levels based on League-average revenues) which creates more of the economic problem in the League than 2 or 3 teams at the bottom end whose negative economic disparity is a mere pittance compared to huge disparity between the teams at very top end and those in the middle of the pack.

MoreOrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:28 PM
  #66
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
About the only way you could come up with parity on-ice and HRR's would be to eliminate Toronto, the NYR's & Montreal from the equation, determine the average of the remaining 27 teams, then re-constitute the Leafs, Rangers & Habs, leaving them to work within whatever the league average might be, and to Hell with their fans if they dont like it; which most even under the just expired CBA dont like whatsoever. Another methodology would be literally pool all Broadcast fee's from every single team, local, regional & national, splitting them equally amongst all 30 clubs, however, you'd likely have a Mutiny of epic proportions on your hands. Frankly, I dont know what the answer is, Im not an economist, accountant, Lawyer.

But yes, your quite correct, the bottom feeders are driving this ship at this time, and until the League addresses that issue, we'll be right back here again in 6, 7 or 10yrs. Moving teams, which does make sense on a number of levels simply isnt an option the NHL wishes to consider unless absolutely forced to do so, ergo, we have to work with what we've got. Really the only team that seems likely to be on the move at this time would be Phoenix, QC the most likely destination. That leaves 2 spots open in Southern Ontario, Seattle, long shot in Houston, possibly several more were completely unaware of if Bettmans boasts that "a month doesnt go bye that I dont get enquiries about Expansion or Relocation".
I don't think that is going to happen but as others have said, the presence of another team in Toronto might put a break on Toronto's profits ( I think they would but how much is debatable). The question is not whether the displaced team would make more money ( it would ) the question is would Toronto and Toronto 2 have more revenues collectively than Toronto and Columbus.

If you think that Toronto or mtl would not be affected by encroachers then the cap floor is going to go up. But I think that says something about market strength.

sandysan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:31 PM
  #67
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
In a sense, yes. Obviously it's great that they do well. But nevertheless, it is that top-heavy disparity (when calculating salaries levels based on League-average revenues) which creates more of the economic problem in the League than 2 or 3 teams at the bottom end whose negative economic disparity is a mere pittance compared to huge disparity between the teams at very top end and those in the middle of the pack.
In a race to the bottom, everyone loses, eventually.

sandysan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:39 PM
  #68
hossua34
Mutt
 
hossua34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 2,598
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to hossua34 Send a message via Yahoo to hossua34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Very informative, but if we are going to talk about what attributes Columbus can leverage to become a self supporting productive member of the league, can we talk about Columbus now and going forward, not some team in another league from 50 years ago and just presume they are comparable?
How about you start by looking at the numbers that the team draws out for training camp games (always packed full), their local TV ratings (comparatively high), the youth hockey participation rates (respectable and growing) and the type of interest generated by the draft and the All Star game (before it got cancelled). Take a look at the college and minor league programs that have done well in Ohio for decades. And the level of local media coverage spent on the team, even during an "off-season. " Try as you might, you can't spin Columbus into a Phoenix/Florida type hockey market. You can keep saying "we just don't know" what would happen if they had a half-decent team, because they haven't had one except for one regular season... But what an awful basis for suggesting a relocation, unless you'd be willing to give them another shot next relocation/expansion.

hossua34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:50 PM
  #69
MoreOrr
B4
 
MoreOrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mexico
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
In a race to the bottom, everyone loses, eventually.
Who's talking about a race to the bottom? I'm just saying that you have to look to where the great disparity is, and that's at the top. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a smart move to have relocated Phoenix. But as long as the great economic disparity exists at the top end, and as long as salaries levels are based on the League average, which is heavily weighted by the top-end teams, the problem that exists today is going to continue. Unless you can find 20 or so other markets that can sell relatively equal to Toronto, Montreal, and the Rangers.

MoreOrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 04:16 PM
  #70
hossua34
Mutt
 
hossua34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 2,598
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to hossua34 Send a message via Yahoo to hossua34
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Who's talking about a race to the bottom? I'm just saying that you have to look to where the great disparity is, and that's at the top. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a smart move to have relocated Phoenix. But as long as the great economic disparity exists at the top end, and as long as salaries levels are based on the League average, which is heavily weighted by the top-end teams, the problem that exists today is going to continue. Unless you can find 20 or so other markets that can sell relatively equal to Toronto, Montreal, and the Rangers.
Or unless you have an insular, niche league with about 10 teams... The thing about these constant relocation debates is that you CAN'T have 20+ teams with consistently high profit margins. You either have to have a league composed of only the perennial rich teams (in which case hockey ceases to be relevant outside of Canada and a small swath of the northeastern US), or you have a degree of revenue distribution that keeps struggling teams afloat until it's clear that they are hopeless as hockey markets.

You start losing credibility when you suggest a team like Columbus be relocated, and then throw out Houston as a conceivable destination. I mean, are you serious? You have to know LESS than nothing about geography and demographics to posit that Houston (or Vegas even, which has amazingly been suggested) is a better long-term market than Columbus. Sure, it might be better in the few years that the novelty lasts, but in that case just call your plan what it is: an attempt to maximize profits by playing musical chairs with less-established franchises.

hossua34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 04:17 PM
  #71
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossua34 View Post
How about you start by looking at the numbers that the team draws out for training camp games (always packed full), their local TV ratings (comparatively high), the youth hockey participation rates (respectable and growing) and the type of interest generated by the draft and the All Star game (before it got cancelled). Take a look at the college and minor league programs that have done well in Ohio for decades. And the level of local media coverage spent on the team, even during an "off-season. " Try as you might, you can't spin Columbus into a Phoenix/Florida type hockey market. You can keep saying "we just don't know" what would happen if they had a half-decent team, because they haven't had one except for one regular season... But what an awful basis for suggesting a relocation, unless you'd be willing to give them another shot next relocation/expansion.
Comparatively high compared to what ? How much do people pay to watch training camp games? How much do people pay for the local Tv deal. Ohio is no Tennessee, but its grouped into the mid America region behind states like mass Michigan and new York.

If one to assume that the market is as strong as you suggest, why is Columbus in the bottom third of ticket prices in a gate driven league. All of those things you mentioned can contribute to a good market but they are not a replacement for a good market.

If Columbus fans had something other than " we plan to turn it around, somehow" I might be more confident. The refi of the arena deal helps and it might be true that the lockout comes at the worst time, but that's the hand you are currently holding.

sandysan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 04:33 PM
  #72
kdb209
Global Moderator
 
kdb209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Lets just say you turned

Columbus into Quebec City
(Sells out every night)

Phoenix into Seattle
Sells 85-90% every night

Panthers into Toronto x 2
(Sells out every night)


How much more money would the league make? HRR would be much better just by switching these 3 correct?
"The league" wouldn't make any more money(*) - the owners of the Bleu Jackets, Totemyotes, and St Panthers would. Big difference.

And every other team would see their player costs increase due to those teams' increased revenues.

(*) Other than possible one time relocation fees.

kdb209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 04:34 PM
  #73
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Would TO support a second team not called the leafs? People assume they wull--but in talking with people from the TO area and the erea in Onterio being mentioned--they say they are leaf fans and would not supporty another team.

Why not move the blues? Horrible attendance right now?
Leaf fans with tickets would not support another team. How would you feel if you owned seats at the ACC and bought a seat licence if another NHL team moved to the city? For the most part Leaf fans without season seats would support a new team.

Confucius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 04:35 PM
  #74
hossua34
Mutt
 
hossua34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 2,598
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to hossua34 Send a message via Yahoo to hossua34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Comparatively high compared to what ? How much do people pay to watch training camp games? How much do people pay for the local Tv deal. Ohio is no Tennessee, but its grouped into the mid America region behind states like mass Michigan and new York.

If one to assume that the market is as strong as you suggest, why is Columbus in the bottom third of ticket prices in a gate driven league. All of those things you mentioned can contribute to a good market but they are not a replacement for a good market.

If Columbus fans had something other than " we plan to turn it around, somehow" I might be more confident. The refi of the arena deal helps and it might be true that the lockout comes at the worst time, but that's the hand you are currently holding.
Compared to everyone else in the league on a per-capita basis... As recently as three years ago, Columbus was in the top third of TV markets on a percentage basis. They also come up in the Top 10 of ALL US metro areas for Olympic hockey (I think they were 8th in 2010).

They don't pay anything to come to training camp. That doesn't stop other teams that you didn't list from drawing more poorly, even with successful records.

And ticket prices are bottom third because Columbus has been among the worst teams in the league for 11 seasons, and 15,000 fans at cheap prices is still better than 5,000 fans at top-dollar. Not rocket science.

You keep insisting that there is no reason to THINK that Columbus could be a successful market, then I point to exactly those reasons, and you imply that's not good enough because it isn't translating into money right now.

hossua34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 04:48 PM
  #75
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Leaf fans with tickets would not support another team. How would you feel if you owned seats at the ACC and bought a seat licence if another NHL team moved to the city? For the most part Leaf fans without season seats would support a new team.
Actually I would bet that even some of those fans (fans not corporations) would buy tickets (if possible) for a rival team depending on who they were playing, and how competitive they were.

I know I've been pissed at CBC for showing Toronto Florida (when both were sucking) when Ottawa and Philly were playing (both teams are among the best in the east). I'm not an Ottawa fan by any means (and make an attempt to watch what Toronto games I have time for), but would much rather see two competitive teams battle it out over watching two teams who suck.

Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.