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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Lockout VII: I've walked for miles, my feet are hurting

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #126
goyotes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topher42 View Post
Kids playing hockey as members of US Hockey

FL 11,721
AZ 4,113


http://www.usahockey.com/uploadedFil...%20Reports.pdf

If I have gone off topic, sorry...

Those numbers need to be viewed in terms of the population of the state.

Population of Florida - 19.8 million
Population of Arizona - 6.3 million

Shows about equal participation per capita. Not particularly strong, but not terrible when viewed on a per capita basis around the United States generally.

California, New York, Texas, and Illinois are the other states where the raw participation numbers are misleading given the number of people in those states. The states with truly impressive participation numbers are obviously Michigan, Minnesota and Massachusetts.

Pennslyvania, New Jersey, Wisconsin and Colorado numbers are also excellent given the state population, IMO. Some other New England and Midwestern states, or so called "traditional" markets, are not that impressive, IMO.

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:27 PM
  #127
Gentle Ben Kenobi
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I am pretty sure I read once that the NHLPA signed an NDA about the league's finances and can't discuss things like that publicly


Last edited by Killion: 01-04-2013 at 04:03 PM.
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Old
01-04-2013, 03:30 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
I am pretty sure I read once that the NHLPA signed an NDA about the league's finances and can't discuss things like that publicly
Interesting. I haven't seen anything about that (not doubting you) so does anyone have any more info on that?

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:38 PM
  #129
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I am pretty sure I read once that the NHLPA signed an NDA about the league's finances and can't discuss things like that publicly
I had also heard this, but can't find a link to it. It makes perfect sense, though. The owners wouldn't want the PA coming back and calling them liars, or divulging any financial info, for that matter.

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:43 PM
  #130
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I am pretty sure I read once that the NHLPA signed an NDA about the league's finances and can't discuss things like that publicly
Things get leaked all the time... Something like this would NOT stay quiet. There's simply too many people involved with too much money at stake for it to remain quiet. NDA or not.

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01-04-2013, 03:45 PM
  #131
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Things get leaked all the time... Something like this would NOT stay quiet. There's simply too many people involved with too much money at stake for it to remain quiet. NDA or not.
Except who would leak it? Things get a lot more serious when a NDA is involved, not something people play with

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01-04-2013, 03:48 PM
  #132
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Kevin Bieksa on threat NHL will kill season if no deal by next Thurs: "Deadlines have been moving, changing. They don't really mean much."

The only way these guys will believe him is if GB goes up to a podium and officially tells the world the season will be cancelled on X date. Actually I still don't think these guys would believe him.

I think it would need him cancelling the season and then players would come crawling to Fehr to make a deal.

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:49 PM
  #133
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To summarize the Winnipeg Free Press article, if a deal isn't done by Thursday, Bettman will scrap the season then demand much more than 50% revenue split.


Nice, more brinkmanship from the league. Because this has worked so well every other time.
No different then the NHLPA. How has this worked for the PA?

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01-04-2013, 03:50 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Kevin Bieksa on threat NHL will kill season if no deal by next Thurs: "Deadlines have been moving, changing. They don't really mean much."

The only way these guys will believe him is if GB goes up to a podium and officially tells the world the season will be cancelled on X date. Actually I still don't think these guys would believe him.

I think it would need him cancelling the season and then players would come crawling to Fehr to make a deal.
Bieksa of all people, wow, he should thank Bettman for his over-inflated salary...the PA all know, all to well, the owners will kill a season...they have done it before, and will do it again...

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:52 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Kevin Bieksa on threat NHL will kill season if no deal by next Thurs: "Deadlines have been moving, changing. They don't really mean much."

The only way these guys will believe him is if GB goes up to a podium and officially tells the world the season will be cancelled on X date. Actually I still don't think these guys would believe him.

I think it would need him cancelling the season and then players would come crawling to Fehr to make a deal.
Sad reality... this is something the league brought onto themselves. Now the league's backed themselves into a corner where the PA will not believe them until they actually do it... at which point it's too late...

However the PA must believe that at some point very soon a 48 game schedule will not be possible, and the league will cancel the season. Whether it's next Thursday the 10th, or the 17th, they have to know that time is rapidly running out.

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01-04-2013, 03:52 PM
  #136
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Well if the league scraps the season all those that think something would have been accomplished by starting negotiations earlier, should have their eyes opened.

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:55 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
Would the owners vote "no" on the NHLPA's current proposal if a simple majority was all that was needed to end the lockout? I wonder...
Pretty sure the owners would vote against the NHLPA's latest proposal. None of them have ever gotten to the desired 50/50 split.

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01-04-2013, 04:02 PM
  #138
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Pretty sure the owners would vote against the NHLPA's latest proposal. None of them have ever gotten to the desired 50/50 split.
In what year do they get to 50/50? Is it still around year 4?

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01-04-2013, 04:04 PM
  #139
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Chris Phillips is furious at the NHL. I honestly forgot he was still playing hockey:

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/ph...r-players-eyes

"they turned around and pulled a couple of dirty tricks that upset a lot of us, so now we’re back to where we were in terms of having votes"

"We’re trying to get a deal done and negotiate in good faith and (if there’s) garbage like that, that’s not going to get anything done."

"The numbers are what they are, but this deal has all been about how much we’re going to give up, not what we’re going to get, and to go to their numbers and then for them to turn around and fudge what the numbers are going to be.

“It’s just ridiculous, expecting to get a deal done with these people that are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.”

“I don’t know if they were hoping we weren’t going to pick up on it or what, but I don’t know what the right word is…I’m appalled that they would try to get something like that in there under the system we have."

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:04 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
Because the NHL would tell them to take a short walk off a long pier, as well as they should. It is none of the NHLPA's business.
Wouldn't that just take them to the middle of the pier?

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:07 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
I had also heard this, but can't find a link to it. It makes perfect sense, though. The owners wouldn't want the PA coming back and calling them liars, or divulging any financial info, for that matter.
If the NHL allowed the NHLPA access to its books, you can bet the NHLPA had to sign an NDA and confidentiality agreement. This is standard in labor and M&A negotiations.

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:09 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Chris Phillips is furious at the NHL. I honestly forgot he was still playing hockey:

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/ph...r-players-eyes

"they turned around and pulled a couple of dirty tricks that upset a lot of us, so now we’re back to where we were in terms of having votes"

"We’re trying to get a deal done and negotiate in good faith and (if there’s) garbage like that, that’s not going to get anything done."

"The numbers are what they are, but this deal has all been about how much we’re going to give up, not what we’re going to get, and to go to their numbers and then for them to turn around and fudge what the numbers are going to be.

“It’s just ridiculous, expecting to get a deal done with these people that are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.”

“I don’t know if they were hoping we weren’t going to pick up on it or what, but I don’t know what the right word is…I’m appalled that they would try to get something like that in there under the system we have."

What I don't get is how the league thought it would get away with that move. Do they think the PA's legal staff are a bunch of morons?

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:10 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Chris Phillips is furious at the NHL. I honestly forgot he was still playing hockey:

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/ph...r-players-eyes

"they turned around and pulled a couple of dirty tricks that upset a lot of us, so now we’re back to where we were in terms of having votes"

"We’re trying to get a deal done and negotiate in good faith and (if there’s) garbage like that, that’s not going to get anything done."

"The numbers are what they are, but this deal has all been about how much we’re going to give up, not what we’re going to get, and to go to their numbers and then for them to turn around and fudge what the numbers are going to be.

“It’s just ridiculous, expecting to get a deal done with these people that are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.”

“I don’t know if they were hoping we weren’t going to pick up on it or what, but I don’t know what the right word is…I’m appalled that they would try to get something like that in there under the system we have."
Its so hard to take either side when crap like this comes out.

The NHLPA (Fehr) have been absolute morons when it comes to showing up late, telling us a deal was pretty close, and all around toying with us, and the players have been so pathetic on twitter that its impossible to like or trust the PA at all.

Up until yesterday i thought the owners were the good guys, but seeing how once the NHLPA did something positive and showed they're starting to trust the NHL by not filing, the NHL goes and tries to take advantage by completely changing the tone of the negotiations and trying to pull the wool over their eyes when the threat of desertification is gone.

There is no good guy in this fight, just two groups of absolutely pathetic millionaires and billionaires who don't give a damn who they are hurting, and clearly have no desire to please the fanbase.

If there was any hockey alternative, i would love to spend my time and money there... these greedy *******s don't deserve another dime of our money.

Its so absolutely infuriating.

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:14 PM
  #144
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The Toronto Maple Leafs, New York Rangers, and Montreal Canadians are separate franchises in the same business. They are not separate companies. Read the NHL bylaws.
No. They are separate companies who are members of a joint venture.

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:16 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by HopelessOilFan View Post
If there was any hockey alternative, i would love to spend my time and money there... these greedy *******s don't deserve another dime of our money.

Its so absolutely infuriating.
There's plenty of hockey alternatives, especially in Canada. Just not ones with TV contracts or the best players in the world. At least it's probably easier finding a game to go to. The nearest minor league team to where I live in North Jersey is at least an hour and a half away.

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:18 PM
  #146
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Who should have more "power" and authority to make league related decisions?

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01-04-2013, 04:18 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessOilFan View Post
Its so hard to take either side when crap like this comes out.

The NHLPA (Fehr) have been absolute morons when it comes to showing up late, telling us a deal was pretty close, and all around toying with us, and the players have been so pathetic on twitter that its impossible to like or trust the PA at all.

Up until yesterday i thought the owners were the good guys, but seeing how once the NHLPA did something positive and showed they're starting to trust the NHL by not filing, the NHL goes and tries to take advantage by completely changing the tone of the negotiations and trying to pull the wool over their eyes when the threat of desertification is gone.

There is no good guy in this fight, just two groups of absolutely pathetic millionaires and billionaires who don't give a damn who they are hurting, and clearly have no desire to please the fanbase.

If there was any hockey alternative, i would love to spend my time and money there... these greedy *******s don't deserve another dime of our money.

Its so absolutely infuriating.
Oil Kings, bro?

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:19 PM
  #148
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Google knows?

I just googled NHL and a giant box pops up that says "THE NHL REGULAR SEASON 2013 begins on Tuesday, January 15th and ENDS ON saturday April 13th"

Does google know something we don't know (they usually do)?

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01-04-2013, 04:19 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Chris Phillips is furious at the NHL. I honestly forgot he was still playing hockey:

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/ph...r-players-eyes

"they turned around and pulled a couple of dirty tricks that upset a lot of us, so now we’re back to where we were in terms of having votes"

"We’re trying to get a deal done and negotiate in good faith and (if there’s) garbage like that, that’s not going to get anything done."

"The numbers are what they are, but this deal has all been about how much we’re going to give up, not what we’re going to get, and to go to their numbers and then for them to turn around and fudge what the numbers are going to be.

“It’s just ridiculous, expecting to get a deal done with these people that are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.”

“I don’t know if they were hoping we weren’t going to pick up on it or what, but I don’t know what the right word is…I’m appalled that they would try to get something like that in there under the system we have."
Is this kind of like how the PA keeps saying it's offering 50/50 but sneaking in those poison pills that make it, well, not really 50/50?

Quote:
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What I don't get is how the league thought it would get away with that move. Do they think the PA's legal staff are a bunch of morons?
Well, according to the league they didn't make any such move. They said the changes were bolded & highlighted and given to the PA 4 days (5 now, I guess) ago. I'm always of the mindset that it's pretty stupid to lie about something that would be so incredibly easy to disprove... the PA just shows them the papers where it wasn't highlighted to bring it to their attention. So, it's a he said/she said and, as always, the truth lies somewhere between.

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Old
01-04-2013, 04:20 PM
  #150
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Wouldn't that just take them to the middle of the pier?
Well, this is what happens when you're trying to talk on the phone and type at the same time.

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