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Bills Off-Season 2013 Style (Wilson, Barnett, McGee released, T Jackson re-signed)

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01-04-2013, 04:35 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
I love it when people make the argument they missed the playoffs and therefore using that season isn't a valid argument.
I'd be content going 11-5 even without a playoff appearance.

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01-04-2013, 04:43 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Bill Belichick, 2008 = 11-5 without Brady.
Weeee, 11-5 with the core of a team that went 18-1 the previous year! Yay for six-game regressions! And it's funny that you can cite exactly one good season in the six non-Brady years, and then call that good evidence supporting your point.


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Is that the only example you have of a coach with a losing record turning out? I can name you a lot more that say coaches with a losing record stay losers then you can of coaches with losing records become winners.
I can give you several more coaches who hovered around .500 thru six seasons that turned out alright:

Marvin Lewis: 46-49-1
Gary Kubiak: 47-49
Tom Coughlin: 49-47

You probably wouldn't have hired John Fox two seasons ago because "OMG, he's a .500 coach" (73-71 in CAR), and just went 2-14 with the Panthers!!!! RETREAD!!!

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And since it's never a coaches fault if he loses with anything less then an elite QB why didn't we just keep Gailey? Since it's obviously just Fitzs fault we were so bad these last 3 years
Everything has to be black and white with you, Freddie, doesn't it? Gailey wasn't a good coach. They can certainly do better than him. And, as I've said before, if they don't fix the QB and personnel, it won't matter who coaches them, even *cue royal trumpeters* Chip Kelly.

As I said above, bad coaches can with good QBs/personnel (Reid, Andy). Good coaches rarely win with bad personnel. And bad coaches and subpar personnel are what the Bills have seen for years.

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01-04-2013, 04:46 PM
  #78
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It's obvious (and he's stated as such) that the Run Option spread offense would have to be tweaked or changed to work in the NFL. Still, Seattle absolutely crushed us (and San Fran) with a version of it. You just need to have more of a passing threat out of the formation than most college schools do.

The no-huddle style of offense is still very commonplace and successful in the NFL. Kelly just runs it almost the entire game. It still tires out a defense and prevents substitution. It also forces defenses into more simplistic and repetitive schemes, since they won't have time to evaluate an offensive formation, make a complicated and situational play call, radio it in the defense, and have that player relay the call to their defense.
I think his scheme has a chance if he can get the right QB.

I think the bigger issue is his lack of any NFL experience. Pete Carroll had a decade as a DB coach and DC before getting the Jets gig and it's still taken him to his 3rd NFL job to really have a solid team.

I don't even think Kelly is the best college to pro prospect.

Bill O'Brien was before Pegulabucks convinced him to stay in Happy Valley.

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01-04-2013, 04:47 PM
  #79
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BTW, Cassel has had two seasons (of five as a starter) with an 89+ rating. He's competent. Fitz has never been above 83.3 in five years as a starter.

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01-04-2013, 05:00 PM
  #80
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BTW, Cassel has had two seasons (of five as a starter) with an 89+ rating. He's competent. Fitz has never been above 83.3 in five years as a starter.
Both of those seasons are from over three years ago. The last two he's been dreadful. Cassel is always very injury prone.

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01-04-2013, 05:03 PM
  #81
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Weeee, 11-5 with the core of a team that went 18-1 the previous year! Yay for six-game regressions! And it's funny that you can cite exactly one good season in the six non-Brady years, and then call that good evidence supporting your point.




I can give you several more coaches who hovered around .500 thru six seasons that turned out alright:

Marvin Lewis: 46-49-1
Gary Kubiak: 47-49
Tom Coughlin: 49-47

You probably wouldn't have hired John Fox two seasons ago because "OMG, he's a .500 coach" (73-71 in CAR), and just went 2-14 with the Panthers!!!! RETREAD!!!



Everything has to be black and white with you, Freddie, doesn't it? Gailey wasn't a good coach. They can certainly do better than him. And, as I've said before, if they don't fix the QB and personnel, it won't matter who coaches them, even *cue royal trumpeters* Chip Kelly.

As I said above, bad coaches can with good QBs/personnel (Reid, Andy). Good coaches rarely win with bad personnel. And bad coaches and subpar personnel are what the Bills have seen for years.
Marvin Lewis isn't a great example, his Bengals teams are occasionally good, and occasionally bad. Kubiak is in the middle of his first season of success, who knows if its sustainable.

I'll definitely concede Coughlin, although his Giants teams are very bi-polar and inconsistent. An argument can be made they just got hot at the right time, but you can't explain away two superbowls.

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01-04-2013, 05:12 PM
  #82
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Sure, Kelly is a hot commodity. I don't like his entire offensive mind. His teams D is very suspect. we need D. Thats not the answer. He could make Spiller even better but overall I would question his trick pony offense.

But to say that he's the only coach with a breath of fresh air isn't fair. Ray Horton seems about the same.

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01-04-2013, 05:12 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Marvin Lewis isn't a great example, his Bengals teams are occasionally good, and occasionally bad. Kubiak is in the middle of his first season of success, who knows if its sustainable.

I'll definitely concede Coughlin, although his Giants teams are very bi-polar and inconsistent. An argument can be made they just got hot at the right time, but you can't explain away two superbowls.
Meh, I wouldn't hold my breath on the Bengals going up and down too much with Dalton there. He's provided some stability at the most important position, and they've gone 19-13 in his first two seasons. With Baltimore and Pittsburgh aging, I think the Bungles are the rising power in that division. I hope Mike Brown gives them the financial support to take it to the next level.

Kubiak is 22-10 the last two years. They look like they're going to be good for awhile, too.

Re: Whis, my point is that you can't disqualify him simply based on that record. Frankly, I don't think there's a coach alive that could get 10 wins out of that QB/O-line situation in Arizona. Coaches' careers are not set in stone after six years, and there are many examples of guys who do very well even after mediocre results early in their careers.

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01-04-2013, 05:25 PM
  #84
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Meh, I wouldn't hold my breath on the Bengals going up and down too much with Dalton there. He's provided some stability at the most important position, and they've gone 19-13 in his first two seasons. With Baltimore and Pittsburgh aging, I think the Bungles are the rising power in that division. I hope Mike Brown gives them the financial support to take it to the next level.

Kubiak is 22-10 the last two years. They look like they're going to be good for awhile, too.

Re: Whis, my point is that you can't disqualify him simply based on that record. Frankly, I don't think there's a coach alive that could get 10 wins out of that QB/O-line situation in Arizona. Coaches' careers are not set in stone after six years, and there are many examples of guys who do very well even after mediocre results early in their careers.
I don't disagree, but his lackluster record is just one of the reasons why I'm not interested. Multiple people who live in Arizona and cover the team for a living have stated that Whisenhunt has "the loudest voice" in the room when it comes to personnel decisions.

He is largely responsible for their deplorable personnel situation, including their QB fiasco.

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01-04-2013, 06:13 PM
  #85
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Sounds like Kelly to Browns is imminent. 4 years $17 million.

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01-04-2013, 07:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Weeee, 11-5 with the core of a team that went 18-1 the previous year! Yay for six-game regressions! And it's funny that you can cite exactly one good season in the six non-Brady years, and then call that good evidence supporting your point.
Yeah, winning 11 games with a Backup QB is a regression.Bills fans would kill for 11 wins.We can't even win 8 games with our starting QB, the fact Belichick can win 11 with MATT CASSEL shows me all I need to know that he can win regardless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15
I can give you several more coaches who hovered around .500 thru six seasons that turned out alright:

Marvin Lewis: 46-49-1
Gary Kubiak: 47-49
Tom Coughlin: 49-47

You probably wouldn't have hired John Fox two seasons ago because "OMG, he's a .500 coach" (73-71 in CAR), and just went 2-14 with the Panthers!!!! RETREAD!!!
Nice example using Tom Coughlin, a coach that made the playoffs 4 out of his 5 first seasons as coach of an EXPANSION team.He went 49-31 his first 5 seasons.Even when he got fired from the Jags he had a 68-60 record.Hardly "hovering around .500".As for the 49-47, I don't know where you are getting Coughlin's numbers from.His first 5 years he was great, and aside from his last years in Jax he always won.And even after he left Jax he still was a winning coach.Nothing like Whisenhunt.

Gary Kubiak went his first 5 seasons without a playoff appearance.Even after the last 2 seasons with double digit wins he is 59-53.He's a good coach but nowhere near one of the best.He has the best RB and a top 3 defense.To be honest 12-4 is a disappointment with that roster.

And Your right, I wouldn't hire John Fox because he sucks.Big deal, he coached Peyton Manning and let Peyton win him 13 games.John Fox has 4 winning seasons out of 11.I guess your going to say Peyton isn't the reason they are 13-3 and that it's Fox.And I'll say 2 words: Jim Caldwell.

And Marvin Lewis is someone I wanted since the Gregg Williams hire, and yet even he has done nothing special.4 winning seasons out of 10 and still under .500.But I would have taken him over Gregg Williams that's for damn sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15

Everything has to be black and white with you, Freddie, doesn't it? Gailey wasn't a good coach. They can certainly do better than him. And, as I've said before, if they don't fix the QB and personnel, it won't matter who coaches them, even *cue royal trumpeters* Chip Kelly.

As I said above, bad coaches can with good QBs/personnel (Reid, Andy). Good coaches rarely win with bad personnel. And bad coaches and subpar personnel are what the Bills have seen for years.
No **** Chan wasn't a good coach.I've wanted him gone after year 1.And yet when Chan was hired his head coach record was 18-14, much better then Ken Whisenhunts sub .500 record.And your one of those, Andy Reid not a good coach And Mike Holmgren right?Get real, Andy Reid and Mike Holmgren are top notch coaches.

Good coaches can win without good QBs.Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson.Jon Gruden is a good coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15
BTW, Cassel has had two seasons (of five as a starter) with an 89+ rating. He's competent. Fitz has never been above 83.3 in five years as a starter.
Sorry, but this loses credibility.Cassel is ****ing garbage.QB Rating is one of the most overrated statistics ever contrived.Cassel is not good.Not competent.He sucks.He Threw 20+ TD or 3000 yards once in 4 years as a Chief.I would rather keep Fitzpatrick then ever name Matt Cassel as my starting QB.

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01-04-2013, 07:15 PM
  #87
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Looking lik Chip to the Browns.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...eveland-browns

Total garbage. I don't care that the Bills didn't get him, but I would've preferred he stayed in Oregon instead of going to Cleveland. Ugh.

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01-04-2013, 08:26 PM
  #88
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I don't see how Cleveland has the personnel to run his scheme, but we'll see I guess.

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01-04-2013, 08:30 PM
  #89
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Looking lik Chip to the Browns.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...eveland-browns

Total garbage. I don't care that the Bills didn't get him, but I would've preferred he stayed in Oregon instead of going to Cleveland. Ugh.
Lol..4 more years of losing destined in Cleveland!

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01-04-2013, 09:15 PM
  #90
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Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot

#Syracuse hc doug marrone has interviewed w/ #browns. Is interviewing w/#bills maybe today. Looks poise to go pro.
https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/sta...61178172956674

She's a Browns reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the tweet was linked from the TBN blog. So Marrone has (likely) officially interviewed...his name was linked early on but then nothing was heard of him interviewing until now I guess.

McCoy and Smith interviewing this weekend...wonder if they'll ask permission to interview Arians next week. Other teams have, surprised Bills aren't in on him.

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01-04-2013, 09:37 PM
  #91
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Let the Brown have Marrone and give Buffalo Chip.

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01-04-2013, 10:21 PM
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Let the Brown have Marrone and give Buffalo Chip.
Chip's going to flop and I fear he could have ruined Spiller.

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01-04-2013, 11:08 PM
  #93
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Kelly is going to Cleveland, Brandon will probably hire some no name from Alberta!

If the Bills organization had any sense at all they would offer Nick Saban 10% of the team and 10 million a year to coache here... His father won two AFL titles in Buffalo, he would come here if the money was right... AND WIN!!!

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01-04-2013, 11:36 PM
  #94
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Kelly is going to Cleveland, Brandon will probably hire some no name from Alberta!

If the Bills organization had any sense at all they would offer Nick Saban 10% of the team and 10 million a year to coache here... His father won two AFL titles in Buffalo, he would come here if the money was right... AND WIN!!!
He sucked in Miami, I doubt he's as rich as you think.

Marv was basically a no name, he wasnt that good of a coach really, he just walked into a perfect situation.

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01-04-2013, 11:44 PM
  #95
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Gotta say, as a 'cuse fan, it sucks if they lose Marrone.

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01-05-2013, 12:05 AM
  #96
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Without an elite QB a lot of different coaches have failed. Mike Shanahan instantly pops into my head ( great with Elway... bad for year and then RG3). And the 11-5 year with the Patriots? People clearly forget what a soft schedule the AFC East had: The Bills were 7-3 outside their division.... Miami finished 11-5, Pats 11-5 and Jets 10-6... don't say that 11-5 record was impressive when a year earlier with a tougher schedule the Pats went 16-0. Teams struggle without having an elite QB... and what happened to Kurt Warner? I remember when he was fumbling and throwing ints in New York.... he goes to Arizona and suddenly becomes elite again? That Arizona team willed their way to the Super Bowl (and almost won).

Whisenhunt didn't draft the O-Line in Arizona..... allowing sacks and eliminating the run game meant that teams playing the Cards had to eliminate Fitzgerald for an easy win (plain and simple).... No team could do that to the Bills.

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01-05-2013, 12:08 AM
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Figured it out. I don't give a **** who the coach is as long as that party AGREES to SUCK this upcoming year.

#SuckForJohnnyFootball!!!!

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01-05-2013, 12:31 AM
  #98
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Kelly is going to Cleveland, Brandon will probably hire some no name from Alberta!

If the Bills organization had any sense at all they would offer Nick Saban 10% of the team and 10 million a year to coache here... His father won two AFL titles in Buffalo, he would come here if the money was right... AND WIN!!!
Saban left the NFL to go back to college ball. He's got pretty much zero reason to leave Alabama.

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01-05-2013, 01:36 AM
  #99
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Wow...a lot of hate for the Brownies. I personally always cheer for a Cleveland team if Buffalo is out of the running...although it's usually a case of mutual failure. I hope Kelly does well with the Browns is in fact he does end up there. Anything to see those awful Steelers fans cry.

That being said, we just need to go full on towards Lovie at this point. We are FAR more appealing than Arizona in terms of roster talent and history. If it's either him or Horton I'll be happy. If its Whisenhunt than get prepared for status quo.

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01-05-2013, 02:36 AM
  #100
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Apparently Lovie and Marrone had their interviews tonight:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ce=twitterfeed

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