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Old
01-04-2013, 02:41 PM
  #901
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I question if even guys like Westgarth understand. I am an Accountant by trade.

While I sympathize with the players always having to give up some salary, I understand why the NHL is always asking for it.

You have to keep your books in order, and your fiscal base sound. Unfortunately in about 99% of all Companies; that starts and ends with Labor costs.

Can you get creative with overhead ? Yes , but the vast majority of your expenses is always Labor.
When the people of your profession have been overpaid for 20 years, it's inevitable.

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01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
When the people of your profession have been overpaid for 20 years, it's inevitable.
I said the same thing this summer when the ridiculous contracts were being handed out, especially to the bottom line players.

The Kings committed 6.5 million to two forwards who combined to score 38 points last season, and there were people on here talking about how commendable it was because they supposedly "took a hometown discount"

When the going rate for Penner and Stoll is approaching 4 million a season you know the system is grotesquely out of whack, and contracts like that are why we aren't playing hockey right now, not because Doughty or Kopitar get 7.

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01-04-2013, 03:52 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I said the same thing this summer when the ridiculous contracts were being handed out, especially to the bottom line players.

The Kings committed 6.5 million to two forwards who combined to score 38 points last season, and there were people on here talking about how commendable it was because they supposedly "took a hometown discount"

When the going rate for Penner and Stoll is approaching 4 million a season you know the system is grotesquely out of whack, and contracts like that are why we aren't playing hockey right now, not because Doughty or Kopitar get 7.
I agree Herby, While I expected Stoll and Penner to take pay cuts. I for sure thought it was going to be way more of a pay cut.

I assumed they would both be around Two maybe 2.5 million.

That was not even close.

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01-04-2013, 03:58 PM
  #904
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I hope one of the compliance buyouts the Kings opt to use will be on Westgarth. Let him toil in the minors where he belongs.

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01-04-2013, 04:00 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I hope one of the compliance buyouts the Kings opt to use will be on Westgarth. Let him toil in the minors where he belongs.
I agree, I would rather someone like Bodnarchuck or Hickey get a shot at the Roster. Maybe even Cliche.

I think Hickey is going to surprise people, He is more like a Scuds in the AHL. Kid is very consistent.

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01-04-2013, 04:17 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I hope one of the compliance buyouts the Kings opt to use will be on Westgarth. Let him toil in the minors where he belongs.
Johnny Utah please pick up a white courtesy phone.

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01-04-2013, 05:10 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I hope one of the compliance buyouts the Kings opt to use will be on Westgarth. Let him toil in the minors where he belongs.
Not that I have anything against Westie, but it looks like Richie and Clifford are already going to be up in the press box. There's simply no room for him.

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Old
01-04-2013, 07:30 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Fehr will keep moving the Goal posts; till the players are close to keeping much of what they had.

Problem is the NHL owners won't sign that CBA.

The whole pension plan thing I think is not really an issue, it's a negotiating tactic. They solve one issue, but that issue crops up again at a later date. It's all part of the game.

I am sure before the 11th hour, Make whole will be asked to be increased again.
How is this fehrs fault. What happened was the owners pulled a fast One in order to fake good faith so that the players wouldnt play their card. This was a shrewd manipulation. Had fehr really known this he would not have taken an ego hit and the players Probably would have decertified. The wording was apparently so tricky that unless you knew the nhls intentions you wouldnt be able to break it down in time.

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01-04-2013, 07:41 PM
  #909
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http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/01/04/...-phillips-says

I had heard about it, but now get some clarification. NHLPA lawyers found some (unintentional?) unmarked CBA changes in the HRR section, to wit, not allowing any verification of HRR $s.
Quote:
“Basically, they changed the definition, where there would be no accountability in terms of HRR (league revenue) accounting,” Senators team rep Chris Phillips said at noon Friday. “So they could basically give us whatever number they wanted to.

“It’s great that we’re at 50-50 now, but 50-50 of what? That’s just ridiculous. We’re trying to get a deal done, and negotiate in good faith and they pull garbage like that. That’s not going to get anything done.”


Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
While nothing is scheduled, there is still a chance the NHL and NHLPA meet tonight.


I have heard this from allot of different people. The thing that angered everyone is that the NHL had changed the language in between meetings or so it is said. That is what made everyone get peeved off and here we are today.

Still hopeful and optimistic but a bit stunned by all of the game playing.

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Old
01-04-2013, 07:42 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
When the people of your profession have been overpaid for 20 years, it's inevitable.
You get país what the market dictates. Its not the players fault the owners business plan is broken. 10 teams in terrible Marieta. The good market teams driving up prices. In One year the thrashers are worth 75 million. They move to a good market and they go up to 250 million according to Forbes. Its 10 owners fighting against 20 , fighting against 750 players in this thing. People wonder why **** cant get done.

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01-04-2013, 07:47 PM
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/01/04/...-phillips-says

I had heard about it, but now get some clarification. NHLPA lawyers found some (unintentional?) unmarked CBA changes in the HRR section, to wit, not allowing any verification of HRR $s.
Quote:
“Basically, they changed the definition, where there would be no accountability in terms of HRR (league revenue) accounting,” Senators team rep Chris Phillips said at noon Friday. “So they could basically give us whatever number they wanted to.

“It’s great that we’re at 50-50 now, but 50-50 of what? That’s just ridiculous. We’re trying to get a deal done, and negotiate in good faith and they pull garbage like that. That’s not going to get anything done.”


Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
While nothing is scheduled, there is still a chance the NHL and NHLPA meet tonight.


I have heard this from allot of different people. The thing that angered everyone is that the NHL had changed the language in between meetings or so it is said. That is what made everyone get peeved off and here we are today.

Still hopeful and optimistic but a bit stunned by all of the game playing.
Or it really happened like this:

(1/2)On "bait and switch" charges:league says HRR language given to players on Dec. 27, and players acknowledged it with follow-up questions (2/2) on 12-29 and 1-1, rendering bait-and-switch charges, to league, as bogus attempt at redo on disclaimer vote

https://twitter.com/adater/status/287257257832488960

https://twitter.com/adater/status/287257799338123264

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Old
01-04-2013, 07:52 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Or it really happened like this:

(1/2)On "bait and switch" charges:league says HRR language given to players on Dec. 27, and players acknowledged it with follow-up questions (2/2) on 12-29 and 1-1, rendering bait-and-switch charges, to league, as bogus attempt at redo on disclaimer vote

https://twitter.com/adater/status/287257257832488960

https://twitter.com/adater/status/287257799338123264
Depends on who's story(ies) you believe I guess. Both sides have a different take that is for certain.

So it looks like the PA will have the votes needed to DOI again but also that both sides agree that there is still a little wiggle room to be had on the primary issues.

No deal by the 8th and the season will be pulled or likely so. I think we will see this thing get done in time.


Last edited by etherialone: 01-04-2013 at 07:59 PM.
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Old
01-04-2013, 08:02 PM
  #913
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one more week of this cluster ****.

why cant the nhl be more popular so we wouldnt have to deal with this ****.

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01-04-2013, 08:05 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
one more week of this cluster ****.

why cant the nhl be more popular so we wouldnt have to deal with this ****.
Both the NBA and NFL had lockouts less than 36 months ago...

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01-04-2013, 08:07 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Both the NBA and NFL had lockouts less than 36 months ago...
nfl zero games lost, nba 16 games lost, nhl on the verge of losing another season.

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01-04-2013, 09:10 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
You get país what the market dictates. Its not the players fault the owners business plan is broken. 10 teams in terrible Marieta. The good market teams driving up prices. In One year the thrashers are worth 75 million. They move to a good market and they go up to 250 million according to Forbes. Its 10 owners fighting against 20 , fighting against 750 players in this thing. People wonder why **** cant get done.
No one says it is the players' "fault", but reducing the amount they get paid is part of the fix. It is an economic reality that given the revenue that the NHL brings in that the players have been overpaid.

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Old
01-04-2013, 10:30 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
When the people of your profession have been overpaid for 20 years, it's inevitable.
Ive never understood the"overpaid" arguement. If anythingbthe players are underpaid since the league has to put things like a salary cap in place to limit the amount of money the owners can pay them. The owners hand out the contracts and thus set the market values of the player.

Players are worth the money they make and i know that because owners keep handing out bigger deals.

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Old
01-04-2013, 10:37 PM
  #918
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Aw ****, I thought all of this BS was gonna end before the weekend.

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Old
01-04-2013, 10:49 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Ive never understood the"overpaid" arguement. If anythingbthe players are underpaid since the league has to put things like a salary cap in place to limit the amount of money the owners can pay them. The owners hand out the contracts and thus set the market values of the player.

Players are worth the money they make and i know that because owners keep handing out bigger deals.
It's really quite simple. When over half of 30 businesses are not profitable and their #1 expense is employee salaries, the employees are overpaid relative to the revenue they produce.


Last edited by KINGS17: 01-04-2013 at 11:29 PM.
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Old
01-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #920
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Aw ****, I thought all of this BS was gonna end before the weekend.
It will end on the 9th or 10th, not a day sooner.

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01-04-2013, 11:08 PM
  #921
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Another day done, and still no deal. (Which I didn't expect anyway.)

No, I am not impressed that the mediator went from room to room for 13 hours. No matter how hard he tried, he couldn't get the idiots in the same room and for me that is the only way a deal is ever going to get done.

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.


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01-04-2013, 11:10 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
It will end on the 9th or 10th, not a day sooner.
There is already a newspaper report out there (from Winnipeg) that Bettman is calling the season on the 10th, so in that sense, you are absolutely right.

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01-04-2013, 11:15 PM
  #923
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There is already a newspaper report out there (from Winnipeg) that Bettman is calling the season on the 10th, so in that sense, you are absolutely right.
That's part of the reason I said that, but I still believe their will be a season.

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01-04-2013, 11:36 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
It's really quite simple when over half of 30 businesses are not profitable and their #1 expense is employee salaries, the employees are overpaid relative to the revenue they produce.
Owners are the ones that set the market value...

You are assuming incorrectly that the purpose of owning a hockey team is to make money. It is incredibly fun to own a hockey team. Look at the other major hockey league. How many KHL owners are making money? I am confident they are all losing a ton of money on their teams and charge fans next to nothing to go watch the games. They are willing to lose money to own those teams because it is really really fun to own a sports team.

Im always surprised when people want to look at this like its an actual business with the sole pirpose of making money.

Players make the money they do because the owners are more then willing to pay them. If they werent willing to pay them that then they wouldnt. Simple as that.

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:39 PM
  #925
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nfl zero games lost, nba 16 games lost, nhl on the verge of losing another season.
... with the nhl being a very distant 4th in revenue among the big 4.

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