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C Mikhail Grigorenko - Quebec Remparts, QMJHL (2012 draft) III

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01-04-2013, 03:26 PM
  #626
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
He's proving that he belonged in the top 3 afterall. If the draft were held today, I think the top 5 might look like:

1) Galchenyuk
2) Yakupov
3) Grigs
4) Trouba
5) Murray
Despite the fact that he's outplayed the two you have in front of him? I know it's a short tournament, but he just had so much more presence on the ice than those two.

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01-04-2013, 05:44 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Despite the fact that he's outplayed the two you have in front of him? I know it's a short tournament, but he just had so much more presence on the ice than those two.


Yes, because it's not based solely on this tournament. I think Galchenyuk's season in the ohl is a little more impressive, especially when you factor in that he's coming off a serious knee injury...you have to wonder what type of season he'd be having if he didn't miss last season. Therefore I have him ahead of Grigs.

As for Yakupov, I think his production in the KHL is more impressive than what Grigs is doing in the Q, and last season Yakupov clearly outperformed Grigs in jr...but not a significant gap between these 3 imho.

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01-04-2013, 05:49 PM
  #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Despite the fact that he's outplayed the two you have in front of him? I know it's a short tournament, but he just had so much more presence on the ice than those two.
Have you seen any highlights of how dominant Galchenyuk is on the ice in Sarnia? He can take over the game on his own.

Now Grigs played better than Gally in the tournament but keep this in mind.
Galchenyuk-Kuraly-Barber vs Slepyshev-Grigorenko-Kuznetsov

And Galchenyuk still put up 2 more points. Imagine if he would have played well.

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01-04-2013, 05:51 PM
  #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Have you seen any highlights of how dominant Galchenyuk is on the ice in Sarnia? He can take over the game on his own.

Now Grigs played better than Gally in the tournament but keep this in mind.
Galchenyuk-Kuraly-Barber vs Slepyshev-Grigorenko-Kucherov

And Galchenyuk still put up 2 more points. Imagine if he would have played well.
Correction, still, Kucherov and Slepyshev are leagues better than Kuraly and Barber.

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01-04-2013, 06:36 PM
  #630
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Galchenyuk and Grigorenko can't be compared until Galchenyuk goes back to center or Grigs gets moved to wing. They aren't the same position this tournament. Compare Galchenyuk to Yakupov.

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01-04-2013, 07:41 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Correction, still, Kucherov and Slepyshev are leagues better than Kuraly and Barber.
I have no idea why I wrote Kuznetsov. But yes, my point exactly. Kucherov and Slepyshev are much better than Barber and Kuraly.

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01-04-2013, 10:59 PM
  #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Have you seen any highlights of how dominant Galchenyuk is on the ice in Sarnia? He can take over the game on his own.

Now Grigs played better than Gally in the tournament but keep this in mind.
Galchenyuk-Kuraly-Barber vs Slepyshev-Grigorenko-Kuznetsov

And Galchenyuk still put up 2 more points. Imagine if he would have played well.
All of these guys take over games in junior.

As for the point thing, Armia is up 4 on Galchenyuk and 6 up on Grigorenko but didn't play as well as Grigs. Yet Armia was still MUCH better than Galchenyk. Get the picture?

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01-05-2013, 12:55 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Where would Grigs go if the 2012 draft were held today?
I had him at #2 behind Yak going into the draft, and I stand by that. Team bias aside, I think he goes second. But, when you factor Columbus not wanting to take a Russian, I think it goes

Edm - Yakupov
CBJ - Murray
MON - Grigorenko

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01-05-2013, 01:24 AM
  #634
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USA is an offensive minded team with great puck possession, and with defensemen being highly involved in the offence. Russia is more pragmatic and defense oriented team, with D not helping much in the offense. The difference between the two teams' approach is like between Bruce Boudreau's Washington Capitals and Dale Hunter's Washington Capitals. Everyone's production dropped significantly on that team (with an exception of Backstrom and only for a shortened regular season). More telling is how these players do within their respective teams.

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01-05-2013, 03:57 AM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
I had him at #2 behind Yak going into the draft, and I stand by that. Team bias aside, I think he goes second. But, when you factor Columbus not wanting to take a Russian, I think it goes

Edm - Yakupov
CBJ - Murray
MON - Grigorenko
What has Galch done to play out of the top 3? Better junior season, and just as good tournament so far IMO.

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01-05-2013, 04:35 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by HalifaxDucks View Post
What has Galch done to play out of the top 3? Better junior season, and just as good tournament so far IMO.
Who cares, this isnt a Galchenyuk thread

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01-05-2013, 05:53 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by HalifaxDucks View Post
What has Galch done to play out of the top 3? Better junior season, and just as good tournament so far IMO.
Grigorenko is simply better imo. It's not like I'm saying Gally would go 20th or something

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01-05-2013, 06:02 AM
  #638
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Dumb question as far as "where will he go if the draft is held now...." We can have that question asked every week and it will change, so what's the point. The idea is not in retrospect and after having more time to analyse a player. The idea was that AT THE TIME, there is no way he should have went 12th and still deserve a 5-7 spot ESPECIALLY based on who went before him. Still will always believe that Reinhart and Pouliot going before him was absolutely stupid. And Koekkoek was a gamble, well my gamble would have gone with Grigo. Everybody in this draft has their pros and cons. Everybody from Yakupov to whoever. Yet with Grigo you had pure talent, you have a really high hockey IQ, you have size, you have versatility. I say 5-7 and I may be undervaluing him.

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01-05-2013, 06:06 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Grigorenko is simply better imo. It's not like I'm saying Gally would go 20th or something
No. What you're saying NOW is that you feel Grigorenko had a better TOURNAMENT than him. Not taking anything else in context like teamates they are playing with. And also based on the fact that the Gaudreau line is so hot right now that Gally isn't on the first PP either and US plays more a 4-line roll than Russia who actually didn't have a balance attack and counted mostly on the Grigo line to provide it. But if you want, you could also say that Grigo just also happen to have the better tournament....it doesn't make Grigo BETTER than Gally....just having a better tournament. 'Cause to know who's better, you'd have to take everything else into account...actual season and so on.

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01-05-2013, 06:24 AM
  #640
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Yes, Grigorenko is so good he is pointless again in the most important game for Russia. Nothing's changed since the draft.

And lol @ Grigo > Gally talk

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01-05-2013, 06:38 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Yes, Grigorenko is so good he is pointless again in the most important game for Russia. Nothing's changed since the draft.

And lol @ Grigo > Gally talk
You sometimes have to go beyond staff. Grigo played very good despite not having the stats that he should have had if he would have converted more. But he did initiate plays a LOT that was not converted by his teamates. He played much better than the scouts thought he could be, 'cause some were even mentioning that they would not have takent him in the 1st round.....And just look at who was picked before and tell me there are not some names in there that should have gone after him.

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01-05-2013, 07:07 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Yes, Grigorenko is so good he is pointless again in the most important game for Russia. Nothing's changed since the draft.

And lol @ Grigo > Gally talk
Judging a player based on a single game is the best way to evaluate prospects imho.

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01-05-2013, 07:33 AM
  #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Judging a player based on a single game is the best way to evaluate prospects imho.
He's a Habs fan. For many of them, touch Galchenyuk and you will get responses like that. Take that from a Habs fan.

Not that I disagree with the Galchenyuk > Grigorenko, but the pointless part suggests he didn't see the game. Grigorenko saved the Russians from the jaws of defeat.

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01-05-2013, 07:34 AM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Yes, Grigorenko is so good he is pointless again in the most important game for Russia. Nothing's changed since the draft.

And lol @ Grigo > Gally talk
No points in a single game!? Super-bust, waste of a pick, etc.


And since points are the single best way to judge how well a player played, apparently, where's Armia's hype train? He's got 4 more points in the same # of games as Galchenyuk, so obviously he's, like, a top 5 prospect in hockey, right?


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01-05-2013, 07:47 AM
  #645
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Sabres better trade Grigorenko... he's actually 45 years old.

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01-05-2013, 08:38 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Yes, Grigorenko is so good he is pointless again in the most important game for Russia. Nothing's changed since the draft.

And lol @ Grigo > Gally talk
I see Galchenyuk is still a touchy subject with you


Last edited by 1972: 01-05-2013 at 08:48 AM.
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01-05-2013, 09:21 AM
  #647
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Yes, Grigorenko is so good he is pointless again in the most important game for Russia. Nothing's changed since the draft.

And lol @ Grigo > Gally talk
Galchenyuk got nothing again today, just like the semi's

Actually the most important game for Grigorenko was the semi's against Sweden, where he was 1 and 1.

I'm happy the way it turned out. Enjoy Galchenyuk. We can do a full evaluation over the next few years.

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01-05-2013, 09:46 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by ottsabrefan View Post
Galchenyuk got nothing again today, just like the semi's

Actually the most important game for Grigorenko was the semi's against Sweden, where he was 1 and 1.

I'm happy the way it turned out. Enjoy Galchenyuk. We can do a full evaluation over the next few years.
I think that's the most intelligent thing that's been said in the last few pages of this thread. Can we just say that Grigorenko had a good tournament without bringing up Galchenyuk? For most players, this tournament will not make or break their careers, but it's always nice to see how they stack up against the best players their age.

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01-05-2013, 09:49 AM
  #649
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Originally Posted by ottsabrefan View Post
Galchenyuk got nothing again today, just like the semi's

Actually the most important game for Grigorenko was the semi's against Sweden, where he was 1 and 1.

I'm happy the way it turned out. Enjoy Galchenyuk. We can do a full evaluation over the next few years.
Why is the evaluation of Grigorenko directly related to Galchenyuk? Was he picked just 1 spot before? Why the heck is that? A yes, we will do a full evaluation in the next few years...and you will be surprised as to how Gally has evolved. Thing is, I also happen to be a Grigo fan for having followed him in the Q league so it will also happen to be good for you. I just don't get the constant comparisons though. If anything, it should be solely concentrated on the Habs board where there was a debate about if we should go with a Q product in Grigo. Not sure why other fans are now doing it....

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01-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #650
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geez, the useless pissing contests never end around here....

Hoping to hear from posters who watched him recently and could comment on specific parts of his game they noticed- whether good, bad, or simply average.....

how did he look in defensive coverage, backchecking, board battles, skating ability, offensive zone play and anything that might have caught your eye - about his play on the ice!

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