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General WJC Talk Thread - "Hoto doesn't like Editions" Edition

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Old
01-05-2013, 06:00 AM
  #801
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Rielly is pretty strong on D IMO. Rather have him on the ice than Harrington who fumbles the **** all the time.
You have to be kidding!!!!

Harrington was easily the best d-man on the team this year. Rielly was brutal in his own end.

Did you happen to notice that Harrington was also picked as Canada's top d-man by the coaching staff........

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01-05-2013, 06:03 AM
  #802
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Murphy will have a career without a doubt. The hatefest is pretty ridiculous these days. As long as he's used in a situation where he can succeed, he'll have tons of value for a team. Just like MAB had tons of value for the Habs. It's just that people hate these kinds of guys who look terrible at times. He obviously won't be a d-man you want 30 minutes on ice but give him a few shifts at forward, play him on the PP and offensive situations against weaker opponents and he'll do a lot for you.
MAB doesn't have tons of value to any NHL team. This might explain why he isn't paid well and can't hold down a job......

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01-05-2013, 06:13 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You have to be kidding!!!!

Harrington was easily the best d-man on the team this year. Rielly was brutal in his own end.

Did you happen to notice that Harrington was also picked as Canada's top d-man by the coaching staff........
I'm not kidding. I wasn't impressed by Harrington in this tournament.

Also, I don't put much weight in those player of the game/tournament nominations, to be quite honest with you. Don't base my evaluation on that.

Ryan Murray would've helped this team a whole lot....

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01-05-2013, 06:14 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
MAB doesn't have tons of value to any NHL team. This might explain why he isn't paid well and can't hold down a job......
He's holding on to his job just fine compared to GMs who have released him over the years.

That said, I'm well aware that on HF and the world of the NHL guys like Brandon Prust will make a much better life than guys like MAB.

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01-05-2013, 06:16 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Murphy will have a career without a doubt. The hatefest is pretty ridiculous these days. As long as he's used in a situation where he can succeed, he'll have tons of value for a team. Just like MAB had tons of value for the Habs. It's just that people hate these kinds of guys who look terrible at times. He obviously won't be a d-man you want 30 minutes on ice but give him a few shifts at forward, play him on the PP and offensive situations against weaker opponents and he'll do a lot for you.
Not sure how you can mention this bold part and then add HE'LL DO A LOT FOR YOU??? That's not going a lot for you...that's playing him like Weber.....Yannick Weber that is. Yeah, I guess he might find a way to reach the NHL...'cause the league is filled with ordinairy players. But another one who will be seen as another miss in the 1st round.....

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01-05-2013, 06:34 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not sure how you can mention this bold part and then add HE'LL DO A LOT FOR YOU??? That's not going a lot for you...that's playing him like Weber.....Yannick Weber that is. Yeah, I guess he might find a way to reach the NHL...'cause the league is filled with ordinairy players. But another one who will be seen as another miss in the 1st round.....
MAB will get you 35-40 points a year with limited ice-time. We had the same argument with Streit a few years ago as well. The value a guy like MAB or maybe Murphy in the future give you over a 12th forward is huge IMO. Over the course of a season it's 3/4 wins. An ordinary player for me is someone like Emelin who people absolutely love on this board. Big guy and everything who'll throw the big hit but isn't nearly worth the attention people give him IMO. Anyways, I don't want to hijack the thread.

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01-05-2013, 06:42 AM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
MAB will get you 35-40 points a year with limited ice-time. We had the same argument with Streit a few years ago as well. The value a guy like MAB or maybe Murphy in the future give you over a 12th forward is huge IMO. Over the course of a season it's 3/4 wins. An ordinary player for me is someone like Emelin who people absolutely love on this board. Big guy and everything who'll throw the big hit but isn't nearly worth the attention people give him IMO. Anyways, I don't want to hijack the thread.
Streit was never put in a position to succeed defensively, while MAB was already known as a terrible D defensively. Then, when Streit was put in that position, he showed that he wasn't incredible defensively but could hold his own. Remains to be seen how Murphy will be able to do that in due time. But in the first round, my point is that I go for players who will be doing more than just being a specialist. I believe you can find those people later in the draft. I guess he deserved a 1st round pick, but not as soon as they picked him. Just like the Thomas Hickey pick who was more awful based on how very fast he was picked.

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01-05-2013, 06:43 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
MAB will get you 40 points a year with limited ice-time. We had the same argument with Streit a few years ago as well. The value a guy like MAB or maybe Murphy in the future give you over a 12th forward is huge IMO. Over the course of a season it's 3/4 wins. An ordinary player for me is someone like Emelin who people absolutely love on this board. Big guy and everything who'll throw the big hit but isn't nearly worth the attention people give him IMO.
I think you are confusing hockey pools with the actual game......the one that is played on the ice.

Bergeron has played on 6 teams in the last 5 years and has been demoted to respective minor league affiliates twice during that span. Every GM in the NHL would take Emelin over Bergeron in a heartbeat and that is a fact....at least a far more viable fact than your magical formula that somehow equates Bergeron's awful play into 3-4 wins per season.......

Lastly........ Bergeron has NEVER scored 40 points in a season.


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01-05-2013, 06:54 AM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I think you are confusing hockey pools with the actual game......the one that is played on the ice.

Bergeron has played on 6 teams in the last 5 years and has been demoted to respective minor league affiliates twice during that span. Every GM in the NHL would take Emelin over Bergeron in a heartbeat and that is a fact....at least a far more viable fact than your magical formula that somehow equates Bergeron's awful play into 3-4 wins per season.......

Lastly........ Bergeron has NEVER scored 40 points in a season.
Are you including juniors?

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not sure how you can mention this bold part and then add HE'LL DO A LOT FOR YOU??? That's not going a lot for you...that's playing him like Weber.....Yannick Weber that is. Yeah, I guess he might find a way to reach the NHL...'cause the league is filled with ordinairy players. But another one who will be seen as another miss in the 1st round.....
Carolina received a lot of praise for their pick because they weren't scared off by his small stature and because he was dominant last year. I'll take Beaulieu, thank you.

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01-05-2013, 06:57 AM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Streit was never put in a position to succeed defensively, while MAB was already known as a terrible D defensively. Then, when Streit was put in that position, he showed that he wasn't incredible defensively but could hold his own. Remains to be seen how Murphy will be able to do that in due time. But in the first round, my point is that I go for players who will be doing more than just being a specialist. I believe you can find those people later in the draft. I guess he deserved a 1st round pick, but not as soon as they picked him. Just like the Thomas Hickey pick who was more awful based on how very fast he was picked.
I agree picking him that high may not be the best idea but around the 20th overall spot I wouldn't have any problem picking a guy like Murphy. Odds are at that point that you'll get a decent player but not a great one anyways. Then again, in 08 Ottawa doesn't pick Karlsson and Anaheim doesn't pick Gardiner because they're small offensive players and possibly future defensive liabilities.

Agreed on Hickey but then again, I don't think Murphy and Hickey are in the same category of players.

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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I think you are confusing hockey pools with the actual game......the one that is played on the ice.

Bergeron has played on 6 teams in the last 5 years and has been demoted to respective minor league affiliates twice during that span. Every GM in the NHL would take Emelin over Bergeron in a heartbeat and that is a fact....at least a far more viable stat than your a magical formula that somehow equates Bergeron's awful play into 3-4 wins per season.......

Lastly........ Bergeron has NEVER scored 40 points in a season.
He actually did once, anyways the point wasn't the 40 points per say. It's the general idea that PPs seem to work when MAB is around your team.

No, I don't think I confuse pools with the actual game. There's a host of different situations in a hockey game that happen. The game isn't always played in defensive situations. Sometimes, you get PPs too. I'll give you that Murphy and MAB make horrendus plays at time but the worst part of all is they simply look bad. They don't cost that much to your team especially when they are used in a situation to succeed. In all the tournament, Murphy had that one bad play against Slovakia that cost his team a goal up until the Nichushkin goal. Then again, that's when I mean he shouldn't be on the ice.

Murphy bobbled the puck, lost it on his own, fell on his own and what have you. In the end, rarely did it lead to a terrific scoring chance for the other team. That said, everyone makes mistakes. Harrington and Ouellet, who were Canada's best D also made mistakes. Murphy might make more mistakes but he more than makes up for it with his offense. In the end, the goal is to score more goals than the other team. Murphy helps you doing that IMO.

On the Emelin vs Bergeron part, I agree with you most GMs would go Emelin. I wouldn't and I think it's ridiculous on their part but hey, that's the way they manage their team.


Last edited by Mathletic: 01-05-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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01-05-2013, 06:58 AM
  #811
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Are you including juniors?
Just checked and he once broke the 40 point plateau in a split season between EDM and NYI.........

Doesn't change the fact that he has been released and left unsigned by teams even though he is playing for peanuts relative to the average player.

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01-05-2013, 07:03 AM
  #812
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Doesn't change the fact that he has been released and left unsigned by teams even though he is playing for peanuts relative to the average player.
that's what I call value

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01-05-2013, 07:04 AM
  #813
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Wow Murphy....good luck in your AHL career.
I expect better from you whitesnake. You're letting emotions take over here.

Murphy was good today, he got beat there by a talented guy, **** happens.

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01-05-2013, 07:05 AM
  #814
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I agree picking him that high may not be the best idea but around the 20th overall spot I wouldn't have any problem picking a guy like Murphy. Odds are at that point that you'll get a decent player but not a great one anyways.

Agreed on Hickey but then again, I don't think Murphy and Hickey are in the same category of players.



He actually did once, anyways the point wasn't the 40 points per say. It's the general idea that PPs seem to work when MAB is around your team.

No, I don't think I confuse pools with the actual game. There's a host of different situations in a hockey game that happen. The game isn't always played in defensive situations. Sometimes, you get PPs too. I'll give you that Murphy and MAB make horrendus plays at time but the worst part of all is they simply look bad. They don't cost that much to your team especially when they are used in a situation to succeed. In all the tournament, Murphy had that one bad play against Slovakia that cost his team a goal up until the Nichushkin goal, but then again, that's when I mean he shouldn't be on the ice.

Murphy bobbled the puck, lost it on his own, fell on his own and what have you. In the end, rarely did it lead to a terrific scoring chance for the other team. That said, everyone makes mistakes. Harrington and Ouellet, who were Canada's best D also made mistakes.

On the Emelin vs Bergeron part, I agree with you most GMs would go Emelin. I wouldn't and I think it's ridiculous on their part but hey, that's the way they manage their team.
He is a last resort/stop gap for teams that don't have a shooter on the point. He is actually terrible as a distributor on the power play which is why he has only broke the 40 point plateau once despite prime PP ice time. He does one thing well and that is shooting the puck, every other part of his game is horrendous. This is why he never lasts with a team despite his tiny cap hit. His liabilities far outwiegh his contributions which at the end of the day results in losses.

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01-05-2013, 07:07 AM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
He is a last resort/stop gap for teams that don't have a shooter on the point. He is actually terrible as a distributor on the power play which is why he has only broke the 40 point plateau once despite prime PP ice time. He does one thing well and that is shooting the puck, every other part of his game is horrendous. This is why he never lasts with a team despite his tiny cap hit. His liabilities far outwiegh his contributions which at the end of the day results in losses.
I strongly disagree but that's your view and it's fine that way

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01-05-2013, 07:09 AM
  #816
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I expect better from you whitesnake. You're letting emotions take over here.

Murphy was good today, he got beat there by a talented guy, **** happens.
He got beat by a 17 year old because he made the cardinal sin of turning to the inside rather than facing up on the outside.........he is well known for making this move and got burned......again.

This is actually a prime example why these players are better left off of a competitive team.

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01-05-2013, 07:22 AM
  #817
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He got beat by a 17 year old because he made the cardinal sin of turning to the inside rather than facing up on the outside.........he is well known for making this move and got burned......again.

This is actually a prime example why these players are better left off of a competitive team.
if Murphy doesn't play a solid game Canada doesn't even live to fight in OT

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01-05-2013, 07:29 AM
  #818
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I expect better from you whitesnake. You're letting emotions take over here.

Murphy was good today, he got beat there by a talented guy, **** happens.
Point is that it's not SOLELY about today. Murphy wasn't good today...he scored a goal. Wasn't his first time when he got fooled today. He looks weak and is not even able to put good positionnaly to make up for his weaknesses. Not a fan of the guy. We will see how he will improve. But I don't expect a whole lot.

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01-05-2013, 07:41 AM
  #819
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if Murphy doesn't play a solid game Canada doesn't even live to fight in OT
That is like giving me $20 and coming back later to steal $25.

Thanks but no thanks.....

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01-05-2013, 07:43 AM
  #820
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That is like giving me $20 and coming back later to steal $25.

Thanks but no thanks.....
:s I disagree with the analogy. For me, it would be more, give me 20 and I'll give you 10 back but anyways

we see the game differently

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01-05-2013, 10:10 AM
  #821
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Videos of all of Galchenyuk's and Collberg's points.



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01-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #822
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With the exception of the first game against the Russians, Canada never looked like a team.

The D was so bad this year, so unstructured... People (on other boards) touting Morgan Rielly at this point over Ryan Murray... Murray would have made a huge impact for Canada just in terms of being able to provide solid defense, something seriously lacking in the medal round with them scrambling all over.

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01-05-2013, 10:32 AM
  #823
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With the exception of the first game against the Russians, Canada never looked like a team.

The D was so bad this year, so unstructured... People (on other boards) touting Morgan Rielly at this point over Ryan Murray... Murray would have made a huge impact for Canada just in terms of being able to provide solid defense, something seriously lacking in the medal round with them scrambling all over.
I have a feeling Canada's coaches were holding their D's back, seemed to me like they gave the go in the third period and you saw guys like Rielly, Hamilton, Murphy, and even Harrington jump into the play, something we didn't see for the rest of the tournament.

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01-05-2013, 01:23 PM
  #824
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Galchenyuk's forecheck on his second assist in the Germany game is fantastic. He makes a heads up play to take the angle and cut in front of the net rather than give chase behind it. Just a smart, smart play that I'm not sure too many players make on a meaningless forecheck 10 seconds into a period.

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01-05-2013, 01:44 PM
  #825
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One guy who is an NHL 1st rounder and was completely invisible was Philippe Danault. Not that he has the skillset to be a gamebreaker but even as a gritty hard working 2 way guy you never noticed him unlike Jenner who was drafted a round later.

...as was mentionned above, based on where he was drafted and penciling him into a top 4 spot, Reilly was unimpressive at both ends. Good skater but didn't contribute much.

Hamilton and Huberdeau have to be considered disapointments, they had some good games but also some where they were invisible(like the last USA game).

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