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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Lockout VII: I've walked for miles, my feet are hurting

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:43 PM
  #201
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At what point do the owners and players take a step back and realize that everyone involved who is not either an owner or a player is just making things 110 percent worse?

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01-04-2013, 09:44 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
At what point do the owners and players take a step back and realize that everyone involved who is not either an owner or a player is just making things 110 percent worse?
Owners would love that.
Players would be idiots to be in a room with owners with pro representation.

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01-04-2013, 10:19 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Oil Kings, bro?
Its just hard to support a team that you hear and see so little of on a daily basis.

I know its probably my own fault for not being able to attend all the games, but when i can only go to see a few games a year, its difficult to get as emotionally attached as i am to the oilers, where every game is televised, and when its not the highlights are somewhere to be found with ease.

Its sad, because i know these kids are playing for the love of the game, and for hopes of one day being the best, not because they're looking to cash out, and i feel like thats hockey that deserves to be watched.

Theres just no alternative to a professional sport. Its nice to go out and catch a few oil kings games in a year, but its just not the same.

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01-04-2013, 10:26 PM
  #204
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Haha, aye aye captain. After all Fehr defenitley is not using the players emotions to his advantage and the owners are clearly on the same page. And in the end the powers to be in the NHL have given us every indication that they know exactly what they are doing so I probably am overreacting. My bad.
This is two sides trying to gain the upper hand in the final week of negotiation.
Simple as that.
And if they not careful, they lose the season.

if you some special insight into what strategi es they are using and what's really important to them and why they're doing what they're doing... I'd love to hear it.

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01-04-2013, 10:45 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by HopelessOilFan View Post
Its just hard to support a team that you hear and see so little of on a daily basis.

I know its probably my own fault for not being able to attend all the games, but when i can only go to see a few games a year, its difficult to get as emotionally attached as i am to the oilers, where every game is televised, and when its not the highlights are somewhere to be found with ease.

Its sad, because i know these kids are playing for the love of the game, and for hopes of one day being the best, not because they're looking to cash out, and i feel like thats hockey that deserves to be watched.

Theres just no alternative to a professional sport. Its nice to go out and catch a few oil kings games in a year, but its just not the same.
And they accuse Toronto of being a Leafs town!

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01-04-2013, 11:22 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
This is two sides trying to gain the upper hand in the final week of negotiation.
Simple as that.
And if they not careful, they lose the season.

if you some special insight into what strategi es they are using and what's really important to them and why they're doing what they're doing... I'd love to hear it.
No "special insight" Bob just my opinion based on the events of the past 6 months that Fehr uses the players emotions and lack of insight to his advantage, the NHL owners are not on the same page in regards to the lockout, and that Gary Bettman is a little too concerned with beating Fehr when he should be worried about saving hockey games.

Obviously Bettman's statement about canceling the season next Friday and Fehr organizing the players for a decertification vote are nothing more than last minute negotiation tactics to try and force each others hands. But to think that negotiation is the only thing at play here is naive at best in my opinion.

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01-05-2013, 12:03 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
How would lowering the penalty on cheating owners benefit players...?
Where does it say they are lowering the penalties?

The change that was made was to give the commissioner the ability to use discretion in assessing penalties. As an example if one organization flagrantly violated HRR accounting rules to the tune of a 20% discrepancy and is a first time violator they would be fined 1 mil. and a 1st round draft pick. What if the commissioner wanted to fine that team 5 mil. and 2 1st round draft picks for such a flagrant offense. Based on the CBA he doesn't have that option.

See, it could go both ways


Last edited by sixgunsdad: 01-05-2013 at 12:19 AM.
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01-05-2013, 01:05 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
What boggles the mind is how they seem stunned the owners are making changes to 'agreed' upon terms. Once something is offered the PA acts as though it must stay, yet demands more.
Oh and the league hasn't been doing the same when it suits them?

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01-05-2013, 01:10 AM
  #209
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One of the key concepts of mediation and mediators is that both sides of a disagreement should be able to trust the mediators with information they wouldn't give to the other party in the dispute.

If mediators could be called into court to weigh on the conduct of either party it could undermine the independent role that mediation is supposed to serve.

While true in theory, the legalities might be different. It is reasonable to expect a mediator to maintain silence about the inner workings of a negotiation but I can see the courts compelling them to divulge information and, if that happens, I do not think the mediator should be blamed for doing what they are legally compelled to do. Confidentiality is not absolute when it comes to the law and I cannot see it being any different for a mediator if the two parties end up in court.

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01-05-2013, 01:27 AM
  #210
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Oh and the league hasn't been doing the same when it suits them?
Not to the same extent, no.

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01-05-2013, 02:17 AM
  #211
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Not to the same extent, no.
Right.
Like, oh, the 24 percent roll back ...

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01-05-2013, 06:54 AM
  #212
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Here is an example of what is wrong with the coverage of this whole debacle:

Quote:
Nick Kypreos
Cap fight. #NHL wants 60M #NHLPA wants 65M. Diff is 150M available $'s per season to players in system. Over 10 yrs that's 1.5B #areweclose?
The difference between a $60M and $65M dollar cap does nothing to impact the total amount of money the players get. All it impacts is who gets what and where the players will be. Not that this is not significant, but now its is out there that it amounts to a $1.5B take-back by the owners. This is Ovechkin Math at its finest. The sad part is that a lot of people will read it, including many players, and take it as the truth.

UGH!!


Last edited by Fourier: 01-05-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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01-05-2013, 07:00 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Here is an example of what is wrong with the coverage of this whole debacle:



The difference between a $60M and $65M dollar cap does nothing to impact the total amount of money the players get. All it impacts is who gets what and where the players will be. Not that this is not significant, but now its is out there that it amounts to a $1.5B take-back by the owners. This is Ovechkin Math at its finest. The sad part is that a lot of people will read it, including many players, and take it as the turth.

UGH!!
Not only that but they are only talking about the cap for next year, not 10 yrs.

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01-05-2013, 07:26 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Here is an example of what is wrong with the coverage of this whole debacle:



The difference between a $60M and $65M dollar cap does nothing to impact the total amount of money the players get. All it impacts is who gets what and where the players will be. Not that this is not significant, but now its is out there that it amounts to a $1.5B take-back by the owners. This is Ovechkin Math at its finest. The sad part is that a lot of people will read it, including many players, and take it as the turth.

UGH!!
Indeed. Mainstream NHL media is so clueless, they don't understand even the basics.

Kypreos has been vehemently pro-PA (no surprise there) but somebody should really call out publicly these stupid comments from media.

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01-05-2013, 07:28 AM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Here is an example of what is wrong with the coverage of this whole debacle:



The difference between a $60M and $65M dollar cap does nothing to impact the total amount of money the players get. All it impacts is who gets what and where the players will be. Not that this is not significant, but now its is out there that it amounts to a $1.5B take-back by the owners. This is Ovechkin Math at its finest. The sad part is that a lot of people will read it, including many players, and take it as the turth.

UGH!!
After watching interviews from players yesterday it seems they believe what is told to them by shills like Kyper and nobody is telling them the true facts.

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01-05-2013, 07:30 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Indeed. Mainstream NHL media is so clueless, they don't understand even the basics.

Kypreos has been vehemently pro-PA (no surprise there) but somebody should really call out publicly these stupid comments from media.
Damien Cox almost broke his own neck he was shaking his head so badly at Kyper. But I think Kyper is also to the point where he chooses to believe what he wants.

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01-05-2013, 07:49 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by j44thor View Post
Not only that but they are only talking about the cap for next year, not 10 yrs.
And hence my comment about Ovechkin Math. He also assumes that every team would spend to the cap ceiling as it looks like the floor would be the same in both offers. In reality a $65M cap might imact salary totals by maybe $30-40M in year one, prehaps even less.

As I said this does have an impact on who gets what from where. But given that escrow claws it back the claim that it equates to a $1.5B gap is absloutely ridiculous.

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01-05-2013, 07:50 AM
  #218
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Damien Cox almost broke his own neck he was shaking his head so badly at Kyper. But I think Kyper is also to the point where he chooses to believe what he wants.
When we get to the point where Damien Cox has to be looked to as the voice of reason I think things are in big trouble.

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01-05-2013, 09:59 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Indeed. Mainstream NHL media is so clueless, they don't understand even the basics.

Kypreos has been vehemently pro-PA (no surprise there) but somebody should really call out publicly these stupid comments from media.
I don't think they are clueless, just intellectually dishonest. Unfortunately, it's a trend that is being seen in all media.

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01-05-2013, 10:43 AM
  #220
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Right.
Like, oh, the 24 percent roll back ...
Don't intentionally confuse lasttime and now.

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01-05-2013, 10:52 AM
  #221
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Right.
Like, oh, the 24 percent roll back ...
If I am getting 57% of the revenue of an over $3B business, a 24% "roll back" with a "make whole" provision on my existing contract really doesn't bother me.

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01-05-2013, 11:10 AM
  #222
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Whether you think the PA's lawyers should have caught the HRR changes or not, you've still got to blame the league for once again trying to add something they KNOW is outrageous and pretending it's a negotiating position.

Just more evidence that the NHL has not been negotiating in good faith, not even now.
Blame them for what? It is a draft CBA, the NHL is allowed to propose any changes they wish. They are negotiating, the fact that they have not given into your idea of what the deal should be does not mean they are not negotiating in good faith.

The fact the PA is threatening DOI would be closer to not negotiating in good faith then the above error.

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01-05-2013, 11:45 AM
  #223
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When we get offical disclaimer ,then only then will this get to the endzone .
More like Forrest Gump through the end-zone and out of the stadium.

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01-05-2013, 12:08 PM
  #224
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Do people really not understand why the players AND owners are fighting over $60 and $65M?

It's not about the money made next year.

it's about every single UFA and RFA who will be a free agent this offseason.

If every team has $5M less, that puts a clamp on the market.
That reduces the contracts everyone agrees to.

Now, with escrow, that's all anyone gets NEXT YEAR>

Say you sign a 3-year, $1.2m per year deal instead of a 3 year 1.7M per year deal because of the $5M reduction in the cap.

Year one might be a wash because of escrow. But you lose in year 2 and year 3..

Say you're a superstar.
you're looking for a 6 year, $48M... how huge is the difference between $60M and $65M in your market

If this issue didn't matter, as some people want to pretend, then why is the NHL fighting it?
The players would rather every player sacrifice in escrow and maintain the market for next year's UFAs.. the actual HRR will catch up in 2-3 years.

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01-05-2013, 12:10 PM
  #225
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If I am getting 57% of the revenue of an over $3B business, a 24% "roll back" with a "make whole" provision on my existing contract really doesn't bother me.
That's meaningless.

If you were getting 74 percent, and it was reduced to 57 percent and then 50 percent, i highly doubt you'd be so liberal about giving your share away.

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