Every Swede will choose Lindholm And vice verse. Leave the thread open for the rest instead. Otherwise, it is actually quite useless and just a Cockfight in the thread on who's best from SEL vs FEL viewers.
I respectfully disagree, the rest of us have very limited exposure to these two.
6'3 210 pounds vs 6'0 190 pounds for instance. There never has been any doubts about the roughness of Barkov and Lindholm isn't that physical to begin with..
How tall is Clutterbuck and he is the top hitter iirc.
I'd take Lindholm, as I see he has a more superstar potential and we need a top C, but Barkov is safer and at the very minimum would be a 3rd line C.
Sweden vs Finland
Flashiness vs Complete package
Biased posters vs other biased posters
People who have not seen the other prospect play at all vs vice versa
People who base their arguments solely on their WJC performance etc. etc. etc.
Well then 90% of the posts in the last 2 weeks are pointless.
I dont get it why people think Lindholm has better offense? How and why? Barkov has more points/game in his own league and also in this tournament. Barkov is also bigger and younger.
I've seen much more of Barkov, I've seen quite a good number of his SM-liiga games, but I've only seen Lindholm in the WJC, so it's tough for me to compare them.
My thoughts on Barkov:
- Positives: very good size, terrific hockey IQ, always involved in the play at both ends of the ice, makes very few mistakes. Positive impact in all 3 zones and in all situations (PP, PK, ES). True centre. He's really young too, if he was 2 weeks younger he'd be a 2014 pick, not a 2013 pick. 9 months younger than Lindholm.
- Negatives: not going to blow you away with his speed, dangles or shot, you could question his offensive upside. Personally I think he's going to be very good offensively, though not truly elite. Doesn't hit a lot, though I don't think that's a big deal as he isn't at all afraid of contact. Doesn't play a high energy/hustle game, but again I don't think that's a big deal, his positioning is excellent and he's constantly involved in the play regardless.
- Upside: I'd peg his upside as similar to current Joe Thornton (the less offensive, 2-way version), a super smart 2-way centre with size who can really see the ice beautifully. I think he has quite a good shot to be at least as good as current Mikko Koivu, and barring injuries I just can't see him truly busting. I think he'll be NHL ready immediately, or will require at most 1 extra year in the SM-liiga.
My thoughts on Lindholm (keep in mind that I've seen way less of him):
- Positives: seems to have really excellent hands and skating, and a nice shot too. Hockey IQ seems very good. Reasonably physical, hustles hard. Strong on the puck AND shifty, a deadly combo.
- Negatives: haven't seen him enough to notice many, seems like a very complete player. Not overly tall, but he's strong so that doesn't really matter. I guess you could question whether he's a true centre, since he's mostly played wing in the SEL, but to me he appears to have a game that would work very well at centre.
- Upside: very tough for me to say, maybe similar to Nicklas Backstrom? Like Barkov he seems like a very safe pick, hard to see him busting with such a complete, well developed game, and he also seems NHL ready either immediately or quickly.
Again, really tough for me to compare them. They're both clearly top notch prospects, but I've seen a lot more of Barkov than Lindholm, still don't have a fully formed opinion on the Swede. My gut is telling me that Lindholm is the slightly better prospect, from what I can tell he plays a very complete, high IQ, 2-way game like Barkov, but appears to have more offensive potential due to his speed and dangles. Need more viewings to feel confident about that opinion, though.
Both are IMO in the "elite 6" for this draft, along with MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin and Monahan. All of these guys would be top 3 picks most years, this draft is truly awesome, so much competition for the top spots.
I've seen much more of Barkov, I've seen quite a good number of his SM-liiga games, but I've only seen Lindholm in the WJC, so it's tough for me to compare them.
My thoughts on Barkov:
- Positives: very good size, terrific hockey IQ, always involved in the play at both ends of the ice, makes very few mistakes. Positive impact in all 3 zones and in all situations (PP, PK, ES). True centre. He's really young too, if he was 2 weeks younger he'd be a 2014 pick, not a 2013 pick. 9 months younger than Lindholm.
- Negatives: not going to blow you away with his speed, dangles or shot, you could question his offensive upside. Personally I think he's going to be very good offensively, though not truly elite. Doesn't hit a lot, though I don't think that's a big deal as he isn't at all afraid of contact. Doesn't play a high energy/hustle game, but again I don't think that's a big deal, his positioning is excellent and he's constantly involved in the play regardless.
- Upside: I'd peg his upside as similar to current Joe Thornton (the less offensive, 2-way version), a super smart 2-way centre with size who can really see the ice beautifully. I think he has quite a good shot to be at least as good as current Mikko Koivu, and barring injuries I just can't see him truly busting. I think he'll be NHL ready immediately, or will require at most 1 extra year in the SM-liiga.
My thoughts on Lindholm (keep in mind that I've seen way less of him):
- Positives: seems to have really excellent hands and skating, and a nice shot too. Hockey IQ seems very good. Reasonably physical, hustles hard. Strong on the puck AND shifty, a deadly combo.
- Negatives: haven't seen him enough to notice many, seems like a very complete player. Not overly tall, but he's strong so that doesn't really matter. I guess you could question whether he's a true centre, since he's mostly played wing in the SEL, but to me he appears to have a game that would work very well at centre.
- Upside: very tough for me to say, maybe similar to Nicklas Backstrom? Like Barkov he seems like a very safe pick, hard to see him busting with such a complete, well developed game, and he also seems NHL ready either immediately or quickly.
Again, really tough for me to compare them. They're both clearly top notch prospects, but I've seen a lot more of Barkov than Lindholm, still don't have a fully formed opinion on the Swede. My gut is telling me that Lindholm is the slightly better prospect, from what I can tell he plays a very complete, high IQ, 2-way game like Barkov, but appears to have more offensive potential due to his speed and dangles. Need more viewings to feel confident about that opinion, though.
Both are IMO in the "elite 6" for this draft, along with MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin and Monahan. All of these guys would be top 3 picks most years, this draft is truly awesome, so much competition for the top spots.
This pretty much sums it up. Barkov lacks speed and dangles to be a dynamic offensive player like Lindholm.
I think its established that Barkov will be better in the short-term, but the question then is; which of the two will be better after they've both developed in the long-term?
I think one thing that is for sure is that size doesn't = success in the NHL and that skating is definitely the greatest asset a player can have.
Lindholm for me. For all the reasons already mentionned. Barkov may be more NHL-ready and younger, but Lindholm will be better in 5 years, especially in the playoffs.
Most of the time, when a prospect has good hands, but does not need them overly much to produce because he's so well positioned and makes good passing plays, I take it as a positive. I mean, he plays a game that doesn't require him to dangle much. That's a type of game that translates very well to the NHL.
Both are very nice prospects. Maybe it's the homer in me, but Barkov. People are weighing this WJC too much. He was a beast in the early season, getting playing against men avg 17min a game takes a toll when you are that young. When he gets the conditioning and age it's not gonna be a problem alongside with the increase of speed and it's gonna be beastmode 24/7.
Not that this should influence the poll at all, but just curious, are either committed to stay in Europe (or military duty) next year, or would either be able to play in the NHL if good enough to make it?
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Exhibit A as to how hockey doesn't matter on ESPN:
Last night an ESPN program was discussing how the Detroit Pistons needed a hero citing the heroes on the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions and no mention of the Detroit Red Wings. All this despite the Red Wings probably being the most succesful team in Detroit right now.
Not that this should influence the poll at all, but just curious, are either committed to stay in Europe (or military duty) next year, or would either be able to play in the NHL if good enough to make it?
Both SEL and FEL have transfer agreement with NHL afaik. So the team can buy-out their contract for relatively cheap price if they do have one (didn't check their contract statuses).
I'm not sure about Barkov's military obligation because of his dual citizenship. Anyways even if he wants to do it he has time until he's 29 and professional athletes can fill in their obligation during one off-season.
I'm not going to answer the poll as I've only seen Lindholm at the WJC and only two games at that, but I will say that Barkov is an absolute beast.. He looked invisible and tired during this tournament but still put up PPG numbers and was always reliable in his own end.. and this from a guy who just turned 17.. I was truly hoping Barkov would be rested for these games as when he's at the top of his game he is an absolute treat to watch.. cool and calm demeanor with excellent positioning and decision-making
I think one thing is clear... this is going to be ONE HELL of a draft!
