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Cherry: CHL should stop letting Americans and Europeans to play in CHL (merged)

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Old
01-05-2013, 10:00 AM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
(...) having imports in the CHL is actually good for the development of Canadian players.
Precisely. And it's good for a lot more Canadian players than for the relatively few imports. The entire argument brought up by Cherry - shockingly - is basically incoherent populism.

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01-05-2013, 10:01 AM
  #202
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Wow, you are really mad.

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01-05-2013, 10:02 AM
  #203
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Why in the world wouldn't a hockey fan want the game to improve and grow? Locking other countries out of the CHL doesn't help anything.... it doesn't improve or grow the sport for anyone, including Canada. Competition is good.

Look at how much the game improved once it gained traction in Europe, and players from Russia, Sweden, Finland etc, started coming over. Everyone benefits from it.

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01-05-2013, 10:03 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by gretskidoo View Post
You can't turn hockey into "only Canada's game" if you want it to ever actually matter on a global scale.
Exactly. I for one couldn't be that depressed if say Finland missed the QF in the olympics in favor of Switzerland if Switzerland ended up winning the whole tournament. I don't want that the top 4-5 teams ahead of Finland to get worse, I just want us to get better. Infact, I don't want a top-7 of teams, I wish it were a top-25 with all teams having the chance to beat any other team within that group.

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01-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Weird, why shoud anyone care what a comedian says about hockey? What next, should we ask the Queen or the Pope?
Touché, haha

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01-05-2013, 10:08 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
Okay. The guy that created this thread is a perfect example of a little canadian kid that have grown up listning to Don Cherry. Cant you see how he how he ruins your kids?
I gre up listening and loving Cherry, yet I can see clear as day this guy is a xenophobic A-hat.

I am going to assume he is either in his golden year and doesn't know any better, or is a young child, taking Cherrys latest rant as gospel, unable to form his own opinion. If neither of those, we'll then that's just sad

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01-05-2013, 10:16 AM
  #207
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Ideas like this are absolutely irrational and just sore loser syndrome. The import players give our junior league some extra talent and it's awesome to watch them. The system has been working fine, but now that we've lost a few times in a row, some fans want to take our ball and go home. I love my country, but when it comes to losing at hockey, there are too many babies.

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01-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
I gre up listening and loving Cherry, yet I can see clear as day this guy is a xenophobic A-hat.

I am going to assume he is either in his golden year and doesn't know any better, or is a young child, taking Cherrys latest rant as gospel, unable to form his own opinion. If neither of those, we'll then that's just sad
Same here. The guy is a moron.

This is a terrible idea. Why would you want to water down the competition in the best junior league in the world? How would that help Canadian players at all? Isn't it better that these 2 positions available on each team are taken by players who can make an impact in the league, rather than riding the pine like the kids who are cut would be doing?

And isn't the fact that so many non-Canadian kids are coming over to play in this league a compliment to the CHL and how highly thought of it is around the world? Don Cherry has to get out of WW2 and into reality. Nobody cares about differences from 70 years ago, Don. The world has moved on and maybe it will be a better place without you.

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01-05-2013, 10:18 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
Maybe Canadians ought to go play in the Allsvenskan so they could reach the finals one of these years
haha spot on

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01-05-2013, 10:19 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
Yes I do but if they would have the chance to play in the CHL, I am pretty sure most would play in the CHL to get better development and have a higher chance to succeed to pro levels.
Maybe they want a quality education, while still being able to play hockey?

I think it is good for young guys to go to other countries and learn new cultures.

The basis for your opening comment is purely subjective. No business/league would consider loosing money by neglecting clients based off their feelings.

Finally, I find it funny that you don't want your guys to play against the best in the world. Reducing the quality of competition reduces the quality of the product (the players).

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01-05-2013, 10:22 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Nice to see the OP getting nicely owned. The suggestion here is basically that Canada should make it's own player development slightly worse just to make other countries slightly worse as well. I think I'm safe in saying that this is bad for everyone. For those who come in here trumpeting the NCAA though, this is in many ways what the NCAA does by refusing entry to former CHL players.
Only somewhat. The issue is two parts. One is that the NCAA wrongly considers the CHL leagues to be professional. The other is that the NCAA has is being on the same team as players under professional (NHL) contracts. It's the same thing in many other sports where (notably mostly European) players are held out for a number of games if not declared outright ineligible based on some of their teammates being professional players even if the player himself is still amateur.

Here's some articles to check out that cover a bit of the subject:
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012...le-improbable/
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...eligible_N.htm
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4609665

The NCAA has been softening a bit on the issue lately, but we're still a long way away from CHL players being considered IMO.

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01-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
Okay. The guy that created this thread is a perfect example of a little canadian kid that have grown up listning to Don Cherry. Cant you see how he how he ruins your kids?
Well as someone who listens to Cherry for the laughs instead of taking what he says as gospel I will tell you, Don Cherry is like a violent video game. You can let your kids watch him, but you need to explain Cherry's racism and the right views of someone living in a modern society. It's OP's parents fault!

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01-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
What about the teams based in the US?
Get rid of them and burn their capitals!

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01-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
If all foreigners would not play in the CHL, chances are a lot of the NCAA Canadian Players would be playing in the CHL.
You might want to go take a look at the ages "a lot of the NCAA Canadian players" are committing at. Not every Canadian that goes south does so at 18. I know it may seem hard to believe, but some Canadians take the NCAA route because they aren't ready to play CHL at 16 or 17. If anything, banning imports will just increase the number of 18 rookies who likely aren't World Junior caliber anyway.


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01-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #215
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I can't wait to make the same thread on RealGM if Tristian Thompson or Andrew Nicholson dominate against the US.

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01-05-2013, 10:27 AM
  #216
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I'm not a Canadian, but I'm sure many Team Canada fans agree that the WJC is a much more exciting and entertaining event now that there are multiple competitive countries and it's not Canadian domination year after year. Even though Finland had a disappointing campaign this year I really enjoyed the tournament because there were so many tight and entertaining games.

Parity is our friend.


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01-05-2013, 10:27 AM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Only somewhat. The issue is two parts. One is that the NCAA wrongly considers the CHL leagues to be professional. The other is that the NCAA has is being on the same team as players under professional (NHL) contracts. It's the same thing in many other sports where (notably mostly European) players are held out for a number of games if not declared outright ineligible based on some of their teammates being professional players even if the player himself is still amateur.

Here's some articles to check out that cover a bit of the subject:
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012...le-improbable/
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...eligible_N.htm
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4609665

The NCAA has been softening a bit on the issue lately, but we're still a long way away from CHL players being considered IMO.
If NCAA allows CHL players to be considered, the CHL will be in big trouble. Full-ride scholarships? Only the top 5 draft picks will stay. Anyone who isn't good enough to to be a top pick, would be stupid not to get a degree. The only reason more don't go to the NCAA is because they want to elevate their game when they are 16.

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01-05-2013, 10:34 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Rob Brown View Post
In the context of this argument, no Canadians in the NCAA wouldn't matter at all.
You really think? How many players from Canada come here for the education also? Lots I bet you. Isn't Joey Juneau some sort of rocket scientist and went to RPI because he could go to one of the premier engineering schools in the world and play in a great hockey league at the same time. How many other Canadians have done the same as Juneau? How many Canadians play in the NCAA because they developed slowly,not chosen for the CHL but took off once they got to the NCAA and made the NHL? Let me tell you .... tons. I believe the NHL is about 30% NCAA players. It't not easy to make the NHL and stay in the NHL for a long time, some people realize that and set themselves up for the future by going to a US college. Most NHL players do not even make the big bucks that you see making the headlines.

Hey maybe the US shouldn't stop there, maybe we should deny Canadians access to US colleges for hockey but also block you from all our developmental leagues for baseball, basketball, football and whatever sport have you.

Which country do you think is going to win the block the scholastic/scholarship athlete from which country?

This would hurt Canada more than it will hurt the USA and that's a fact.

Nevermind there are 8 US based CHL teams.

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01-05-2013, 10:49 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The NCAA doesn't discriminate on national basis. Canadians are welcome to follow the same rules as Americans.
Yes I'm aware they are welcome given they follow a specific set of rules. I do find the NCAA's archaic rules to be protectionist as it relates to hockey and the CHL though. The pittance that CHL players make should hardly make them ineligible. Clearly the NCAA doesn't come right out and limit the number of Canadians, but I can't help but think they are happy to keep loads of 20 year old former CHL players out of their leagues, even though many would be superior hockey players to many of the Americans filling out those teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Only somewhat. The issue is two parts. One is that the NCAA wrongly considers the CHL leagues to be professional. The other is that the NCAA has is being on the same team as players under professional (NHL) contracts. It's the same thing in many other sports where (notably mostly European) players are held out for a number of games if not declared outright ineligible based on some of their teammates being professional players even if the player himself is still amateur.

Here's some articles to check out that cover a bit of the subject:
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012...le-improbable/
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...eligible_N.htm
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4609665

The NCAA has been softening a bit on the issue lately, but we're still a long way away from CHL players being considered IMO.
Appreciate the articles. My issue is them considering the CHL to be a professional league. The NCAA is pretty ridiculous in the ways that they enforce their rules, so it is hard to figure out where they're even coming from in man cases, but I can't help but think that protecting spots for Americans is part of their reasoning. No issue with them not accepting drafted players, as those guys can just play out their junior career and move on to professional hockey. In any event it's not really a significant hindrance to Canadian player development, just an observation.

With regard to the main topic, I would say that the CHL should increase the import cap. If not this, then teams should be able to choose between one of their 20 year olds or an extra foreign player.

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01-05-2013, 10:51 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
If NCAA allows CHL players to be considered, the CHL will be in big trouble. Full-ride scholarships? Only the top 5 draft picks will stay. Anyone who isn't good enough to to be a top pick, would be stupid not to get a degree. The only reason more don't go to the NCAA is because they want to elevate their game when they are 16.
It would hurt but I'm not sure it would be as bad as some think. If anything it might do a some damage to the AHL and a lot of damage to the lower pro leagues (ECHL, SPHL, etc.) since there's no age restriction on NCAA players. I can easily see much of that going to guys who went unsigned by their NHL teams after being drafted once their CHL eligibility is up. The option basically already exists for a lot of these guys though since they can always play junior A until graduating HS then take the NCAA route. Aside from Towes and Turris most of the top talents still take the CHL route in recent years.

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01-05-2013, 10:53 AM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Yes I'm aware they are welcome given they follow a specific set of rules. I do find the NCAA's archaic rules to be protectionist as it relates to hockey and the CHL though. The pittance that CHL players make should hardly make them ineligible. Clearly the NCAA doesn't come right out and limit the number of Canadians, but I can't help but think they are happy to keep loads of 20 year old former CHL players out of their leagues, even though many would be superior hockey players to many of the Americans filling out those teams.



Appreciate the articles. My issue is them considering the CHL to be a professional league. The NCAA is pretty ridiculous in the ways that they enforce their rules, so it is hard to figure out where they're even coming from in man cases, but I can't help but think that protecting spots for Americans is part of their reasoning. No issue with them not accepting drafted players, as those guys can just play out their junior career and move on to professional hockey. In any event it's not really a significant hindrance to Canadian player development, just an observation.

With regard to the main topic, I would say that the CHL should increase the import cap. If not this, then teams should be able to choose between one of their 20 year olds or an extra foreign player.

I don't disagree. However I don't think it's about nationality so much as they don't want 20 year old players coming in as freshman. The rules are different for hockey compared to every other sport. There is a reason.

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01-05-2013, 10:54 AM
  #222
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Yes, please yes! At least ban all Russians from playing in the CHL. That would be good enough for me.

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01-05-2013, 10:54 AM
  #223
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The NCAA will happily take our guys back, and we'll do just fine, thanks.

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01-05-2013, 10:55 AM
  #224
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This is actually one topic that Don Cherry and patriotic Russian hockey fans will agree: Russians should not play in the CHL.

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01-05-2013, 10:56 AM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
You really think? How many players from Canada come here for the education also? Lots I bet you. Isn't Joey Juneau some sort of rocket scientist and went to RPI because he could go to one of the premier engineering schools in the world and play in a great hockey league at the same time. How many other Canadians have done the same as Juneau? How many Canadians play in the NCAA because they developed slowly,not chosen for the CHL but took off once they got to the NCAA and made the NHL? Let me tell you .... tons. I believe the NHL is about 30% NCAA players. It't not easy to make the NHL and stay in the NHL for a long time, some people realize that and set themselves up for the future by going to a US college. Most NHL players do not even make the big bucks that you see making the headlines.

Hey maybe the US shouldn't stop there, maybe we should deny Canadians access to US colleges for hockey but also block you from all our developmental leagues for baseball, basketball, football and whatever sport have you.

Which country do you think is going to win the block the scholastic/scholarship athlete from which country?

This would hurt Canada more than it will hurt the USA and that's a fact.

Nevermind there are 8 US based CHL teams.
I said in the context of the argument, as in it wouldn't really hurt the development of Canadian players if they weren't allowed in the NCAA, because they would still have the CHL. Wasn't referring to the education side of it at all.

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