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Old
01-05-2013, 02:20 AM
  #676
dookie88
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I think so far, the stint in the AHL hasn't really helped any of them.
We all thought it will benefit them because that's how it went with Richards and Carter, but those played on a winning team. Being aroung a losing team is never good for young players.

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01-05-2013, 05:33 AM
  #677
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I think so far, the stint in the AHL hasn't really helped any of them.
We all thought it will benefit them because that's how it went with Richards and Carter, but those played on a winning team. Being aroung a losing team is never good for young players.
Hasn't hurt the Devils. Their farms teams have been pretty brutal yet the Devils continue to develop players.

I've never believed that winning at the AHL level has anything to do with NHL success.

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01-05-2013, 08:08 AM
  #678
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Richards and Carter only showed up for the playoffs. Richards didn't even make it until the 2nd round. They didn't grind out the whole season with the Phantoms, so it was different.

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01-05-2013, 09:00 AM
  #679
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Richards and Carter only showed up for the playoffs. Richards didn't even make it until the 2nd round. They didn't grind out the whole season with the Phantoms, so it was different.
wish we could say that about his NHL career

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01-05-2013, 11:24 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Schenn and Couturiers lack of consistent play in an inferior league is alarming. They should be tearing the ahl up regardless of how bad the team is. They're both around PPG but they've been awful individually too many times in a bad league. I don't care how many young nhlers are playing, it's a bad league.
This is just a big over reaction. They have done very well, all things considered. You can't expect them to bring it every night in this situation. Frankly, I think those two have handled it well.

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01-05-2013, 11:26 AM
  #681
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Wonder if we can trade for a goalie prospect from the capitals

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01-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #682
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What would you guys think if the Flyers decided to do something bold and make a move for the 1st or 2nd overall pick to draft jones? it would probably mean losing Couturier+, but i really think it might be worth it. I really think this kid has the potential to be one of the best defensemen in the world and would probably make the jump right to the NHL. With Giroux, Schenn and Laughton, we may have the long term C depth to sacrifice Couturier for a potential franchise defenseman, especially since Timonen will likely not be here after this year unfortunately. and then with Timonen's contract off the book, maybe you make a push for Corey Perry in the offseason.

hypothetically

Perry - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Briere
Simmonds - Laughton - Read
Fedetenko - Talbot - Rinaldo/Wellwood

Coburn - Jones
Meszaros - Schenn
Grossmann - Gustafsson

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:43 AM
  #683
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I'd rather lose Schenn than lose Couturier

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01-05-2013, 11:47 AM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I'd rather lose Schenn than lose Couturier
i just assume that Couturier probably has more value than Schenn at this point, but i still think Schenn can be a very good 2nd line C with good 2-way play, and with the acquisition of his brother, it might make trading him unlikely, and you never know, Schenn may step up his game greatly because of that.

i know, i don't want to lose Couts either. he's become one of my favorite players, but to get a kid like Jones and potentially solidify out #1 Defenseman slot for the foreseeable future, might be a good idea.

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01-05-2013, 11:50 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Hasn't hurt the Devils. Their farms teams have been pretty brutal yet the Devils continue to develop players.

I've never believed that winning at the AHL level has anything to do with NHL success.


I agree

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01-05-2013, 11:52 AM
  #686
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wish we could say that about his NHL career
nice.

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01-05-2013, 11:56 AM
  #687
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You don't just trade a player like Couturier for a player that could be a #1 defenseman.

The draft has a few good D prospects that would be cheaper to trade up for.

Nikita Zadorov : Like coburn but a little more physical
Josh Morrissey : Giordano
Ryan Pulock : Visnovsky
Darnell Nurse : Marc Staal

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01-05-2013, 11:59 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
You don't just trade a player like Couturier for a player that could be a #1 defenseman.

The draft has a few good D prospects that would be cheaper to trade up for.

Nikita Zadorov : Like coburn but a little more physical
Josh Morrissey : Giordano
Ryan Pulock : Visnovsky
Darnell Nurse : Marc Staal
but do you really not see the potential in jones? trading up for another future 3-5 defenseman doesn't really do us all that good. we need a #1 guy to build a defense around for the future. timonen won't be around much longer. Coburn, Meszaros, Schenn and Grossmann, while an OK top 4, is just not good enough to take you to a championship, especially not with the current situation in goal, which is a whole other discussion.

just watching jones, you can see how special he is. he's a rare talent, and i will be utterly shocked if he doesn't become a franchise defenseman for a long time.

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01-05-2013, 12:04 PM
  #689
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Yeah, I see his potential but we are bad at D.

Our defense should be a little more solid than it was last year but if you trade Couturier, you lose your best shutdown guy and PKer for a player that could be a year or two out. What was the rumored deal that we shut down for weber? Couturier + another player + 2 1sts? And we didn't do that. Why? Because Couturier was untouchable.

Trading Couturier makes our D worse now and in the future

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01-05-2013, 12:49 PM
  #690
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I agree. I dont think we are in a position to deal for a top 5 pick unless we give up something that most wouldnt want to give up.
I still think the Flyers should try and deal for a young goalie. Maybe like Bernier. Yes he isnt ready to be the top guy, but he would significantly upgrade over what we have beyond Bryzgalov.
People want to buy out Bryzgalov? you ready to roll out Leighton,Hovinen and Heeter?
Not sure what LA would want for Bernier, but I dont know if LA is in a position of strength with trying to max out Bernier's value.

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01-05-2013, 12:50 PM
  #691
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The Flyers might not have to trade up. In a shortened season, a five/six game losing streak could put you out of the playoffs. A shorten season will benefit young teams like Edmonton and the Islanders who have many of their players playing together at the Ahl level and also teams who have many players playing competitively in Europe. Only one of the Flyers defensemen, Grossman, has played any competitive hockey so far this season. That unit was a question mark before the lockout. Bryz will have to carry the team in the beginning. Any injuries and this season could spiral out of control quick.

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01-05-2013, 12:55 PM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
but do you really not see the potential in jones? trading up for another future 3-5 defenseman doesn't really do us all that good. we need a #1 guy to build a defense around for the future. timonen won't be around much longer. Coburn, Meszaros, Schenn and Grossmann, while an OK top 4, is just not good enough to take you to a championship, especially not with the current situation in goal, which is a whole other discussion.

just watching jones, you can see how special he is. he's a rare talent, and i will be utterly shocked if he doesn't become a franchise defenseman for a long time.
On the trade board, you suggested couturier + gostisbehere + 1st...

I would need to see a lot more from jones before even considering that deal.

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01-05-2013, 01:01 PM
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
You don't just trade a player like Couturier for a player that could be a #1 defenseman.

The draft has a few good D prospects that would be cheaper to trade up for.

Nikita Zadorov : Like coburn but a little more physical
Josh Morrissey : Giordano
Ryan Pulock : Visnovsky
Darnell Nurse : Marc Staal
And Couturier could be a top line center. Neither is a sure thing. Its all hypothetical but I would trade Couturier for Jones and not even think twice. His movement skills are so rare for a guy of his size.

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01-05-2013, 04:30 PM
  #694
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And Couturier could be a top line center. Neither is a sure thing. Its all hypothetical but I would trade Couturier for Jones and not even think twice. His movement skills are so rare for a guy of his size.
And to give up on a 20 year old that has tremendous defensive awareness and skill combined with offensive prowess? Look I love Seth Jones, think he's a fantastic player but I don't think losing Couturier for him is anywhere close to helping this team. Jones isn't going to step in and make this team better now, or in 5 years. In fact he reminds me of a bigger version of Erik Johnson. All the tools.. no tool box and to be a Franchise defender in this league you need the tools and the tool box... something Couturier has proven he has.

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01-05-2013, 05:41 PM
  #695
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I wouldn't trade Cooter for Seth Jones (not a knock on Seth Jones).

-His defensive IQ will only improve and it is very high already. You can expect it his entire career (barring injury).
-He is almost a PPG player in the AHL right now. Given his pedigree, I would only expect him to buck the normal 70% shave off from juniors to NHL (2 years-96 points each). I would easily put him in the 40 point player range next year as the FLOOR for his talent level, which still has four years to scale offensively (I'm not worried about him defensively) before you even hit his prime.
-He had 13 goals and 27 points last year used in the way he was.

I like Seth Jones, but I like Cooter more.

Already defensively where he needs to be, then you get the upside of his emerging offense.

You could end up easily with a defensive stud that can be a 25-30 goal Selke caliber capable of 60-70 points a year. With G being small, having him and Schenn in the middle of the ice will be monstrous for the Flyers.

I would rather the Flyers do their homework and build without selling legitimate assets.

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01-05-2013, 06:40 PM
  #696
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Phantoms look much better all around today. 1-0 phantoms after the first.

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01-05-2013, 08:42 PM
  #697
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyersFan18 View Post
And to give up on a 20 year old that has tremendous defensive awareness and skill combined with offensive prowess? Look I love Seth Jones, think he's a fantastic player but I don't think losing Couturier for him is anywhere close to helping this team. Jones isn't going to step in and make this team better now, or in 5 years. In fact he reminds me of a bigger version of Erik Johnson. All the tools.. no tool box and to be a Franchise defender in this league you need the tools and the tool box... something Couturier has proven he has.
That's where our opinions differ. I'm usually a wait and see kind of guy when it comes to prospects, but I'm am fully convinced Jones in a franchise #1 defenseman. He is a rare prospect. I've never seen a defenseman as big as him be able to move the way he does. Not just his speed, but the way he pivots and flips his hips for a guy of his size is unlike anything I've ever seen- certainly in a different class than Erik Johnson. He has great length and reach, he can lug the puck in the zone, he can QB a PP, he can be a triggerman on a PP. He can do it all. Even if you think his offense won't translate, he's at least a shutdown guy with the ability to move the puck.

I'm a huge Couturier fan, but I see him as a #2 center with shutdown capabilities. Valuable? Hell yeah, but sans Pronger, this team has lacked a #1 defenseman for how long now? They are incredibly hard to get and if you have the opportunity to do it, you do it.

This is all hypothetical anyway because in order to get Jones you're gonna need to get #1 overall and Couturier alone isn't gonna get you there. The best bet is to tank this season (if there is one) and pray you don't end up like Columbus lol.

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01-05-2013, 08:42 PM
  #698
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Couturier scores on one-timer in OT for the win.

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01-05-2013, 08:42 PM
  #699
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Couts with the OT winner on the PP!!

One timer from the circle off a feed from Syvret. Bomb.

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01-06-2013, 04:33 AM
  #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
What would you guys think if the Flyers decided to do something bold and make a move for the 1st or 2nd overall pick to draft jones? it would probably mean losing Couturier+, but i really think it might be worth it. I really think this kid has the potential to be one of the best defensemen in the world and would probably make the jump right to the NHL. With Giroux, Schenn and Laughton, we may have the long term C depth to sacrifice Couturier for a potential franchise defenseman, especially since Timonen will likely not be here after this year unfortunately. and then with Timonen's contract off the book, maybe you make a push for Corey Perry in the offseason.

hypothetically

Perry - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Briere
Simmonds - Laughton - Read
Fedetenko - Talbot - Rinaldo/Wellwood

Coburn - Jones
Meszaros - Schenn
Grossmann - Gustafsson
Brayden Schenn has yet to have a breakout season to force the organization to move him to center. Not impressed with what Laughton does so far.
Both are less valuable to the Flyers right now than Couts so I'd try to put together a package Schenn/Laughton + 1st + ? to acquire a potential #1D. Drafts can be treacherous at times - there is hardly a sure bet franchise defenseman available and even if so, he'd take multiple years to develop until he is ready.

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