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UFC 155: Dos Santos vs Velasquez II

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01-03-2013, 01:20 PM
  #626
MurrayBannerman
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Babalu and Fedor look about the same size in that fight. It's kind of weird.

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01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m9 View Post
Was Babalu really a top ten HW at one time? I didn't follow rankings back then, that's pretty impressive for a relatively small guy.

Brett Rogers is the funniest name on the list, but as absurd as it sounds and looks when you dig into his record, he was widely considered a fringe top ten guy coming off the Arlovski fight.
I can't say if the fight was at HW or not, I'd have to rewatch the video, but it was in RINGS and Sobral's record was 19-2 before facing Fedor with guys on his record like Maurice Smith, Dan Henderson, and V Overeem.

Honestly when you compare everyone record most guys have around the same percentage of cans in their career.
He's really only lost against the best except for once. In a 37-9 he's only lost to Henderson x2, Fedor, V Overeem, Mousasi, Randleman, Lambert(Only really bad loss) and Prime Liddell x2.
While having wins over: Shogun, Van Arsdale, Maurice Smith, Prangley, Robbie Lawler, Jeremy Horn, Diabate, Sonnen, Whitehead, Heath and Sokoudjou.

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01-03-2013, 01:39 PM
  #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Babalu and Fedor look about the same size in that fight. It's kind of weird.
It's not that weird when you think about the fact they are the same height, and while Sobral fights at 205, he's got to cut the get there first. So he probably walks around at a minimum of 225. While Fedor doesn't cut any weight and normally weighs in around 235-240.

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01-03-2013, 02:52 PM
  #629
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Babalu was unreal in his day.

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01-04-2013, 05:28 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Mixed up the numbers in Cain's record in the past 3 and don't have edit. He was in trouble for good periods of time in JDS I and Kongo.
Oh, ok ... Kongo fight is debatable, but fine.
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Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Fedor has 12 top 10 wins, 9 were in PRIDE.

1. Renato Sobral (HW)
2. Semmy Schilt ("super"HW)
3. Heath Herring (HW)
4. Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira
5. Kazuyuki Fujita
6. Kevin Randleman
7. Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira (HW)
8. Mirko Filipovic (HW)
9. Mark Hunt ("super"HW)
10. Tim Sylvia ("super"HW)
11. Andrei Arlovski (HW)
12. Brett Rogers ("super"HW)

So, 9 of his 14 wins in PRIDE were top 10 opponents, there's no arguing with that competition. You can add another if you'd like to count Lindland.
I don't consider Lindland at this level in terms of his ability to threaten someone like Fedor or Cain Velasquez. Also disagree about how highly rated Babalou, Fujita, Hunt and the version of Sylvia that Fedor fought are, but this is devolving well beyond my original point: that the current UFC heavyweight division / guys Cain has fought are better and deeper than the 12 Fedor opponents you just put up there, which makes it possible but very daunting for Cain Velasquez to hold onto the UFC heavyweight title for very long, despite being a similarly-talented heavyweight with many similar characteristics. I think Cain is a killer and he's very, very similar to Fedor in body type, skill set and style, but here's how I rate your 12 guys with some current UFC heavyweights. We can argue any name up or down a couple of slots, but I think this is close ... names in italics are dudes Cain hasn't actually fought yet.

1 Fedor's Nogueira
2 Cain's dos Santos
3 Cain's Overeem
4 Cain's Brock
5 Fedor's Cro Cop
6 Cain's Werdum
7 Fedor's Arlovski
8 Cain's Cormier
9 Cain's Mir
10 Fedor's Randleman
11 Fedor's Rogers
12 Cain's Nelson
13 Fedor's Herring
14 Cain's Bigfoot
15 Fedor's Schilt
16 Cain's Struve
17 Fedor's Sylvia
18 Fedor's Sobral
19 Fedor's Fujita
20 Fedor's Hunt

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01-04-2013, 06:51 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Oh, ok ... Kongo fight is debatable, but fine.I don't consider Lindland at this level in terms of his ability to threaten someone like Fedor or Cain Velasquez. Also disagree about how highly rated Babalou, Fujita, Hunt and the version of Sylvia that Fedor fought are, but this is devolving well beyond my original point: that the current UFC heavyweight division / guys Cain has fought are better and deeper than the 12 Fedor opponents you just put up there, which makes it possible but very daunting for Cain Velasquez to hold onto the UFC heavyweight title for very long, despite being a similarly-talented heavyweight with many similar characteristics. I think Cain is a killer and he's very, very similar to Fedor in body type, skill set and style, but here's how I rate your 12 guys with some current UFC heavyweights. We can argue any name up or down a couple of slots, but I think this is close ... names in italics are dudes Cain hasn't actually fought yet.

1 Fedor's Nogueira
2 Cain's dos Santos
3 Cain's Overeem
4 Cain's Brock
5 Fedor's Cro Cop
6 Cain's Werdum
7 Fedor's Arlovski
8 Cain's Cormier
9 Cain's Mir
10 Fedor's Randleman
11 Fedor's Rogers
12 Cain's Nelson
13 Fedor's Herring
14 Cain's Bigfoot
15 Fedor's Schilt
16 Cain's Struve
17 Fedor's Sylvia
18 Fedor's Sobral
19 Fedor's Fujita
20 Fedor's Hunt
Where's Coleman and Arona?

Also, why are you listing guys Cain hasn't fought yet? If you're going to do that, you should also be listing guys Fedor didn't fight, no?

You could put Fedor's Couture, Fedor's Lesnar, Fedor's Overeem, Fedor's Rutten, Fedor's Vovchanchyn, etc etc etc on the list. And also earlier UFC champion versions of Fedor's Sylvia, Fedor's Arlovski.

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01-04-2013, 07:47 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post

Also, why are you listing guys Cain hasn't fought yet? If you're going to do that, you should also be listing guys Fedor didn't fight, no?

You could put Fedor's Couture, Fedor's Lesnar, Fedor's Overeem, Fedor's Rutten, Fedor's Vovchanchyn, etc etc etc on the list. And also earlier UFC champion versions of Fedor's Sylvia, Fedor's Arlovski.
I think he's arguing that the current crop of heavyweights are better than the crop of heavyweights that Fedor fought in his prime, suggesting that Cain will have a tougher time defending his belt than Fedor did, which is probably accurate. Fedor certainly had his share of big wins over stiff competition, but he also fought a lot of cans and fights that were tailor made for him, particularly towards the end of his career when more eyes were on him.


Last edited by Peter Griffin: 01-04-2013 at 07:54 PM.
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01-04-2013, 07:56 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Oh, ok ... Kongo fight is debatable, but fine.I don't consider Lindland at this level in terms of his ability to threaten someone like Fedor or Cain Velasquez. Also disagree about how highly rated Babalou, Fujita, Hunt and the version of Sylvia that Fedor fought are, but this is devolving well beyond my original point: that the current UFC heavyweight division / guys Cain has fought are better and deeper than the 12 Fedor opponents you just put up there, which makes it possible but very daunting for Cain Velasquez to hold onto the UFC heavyweight title for very long, despite being a similarly-talented heavyweight with many similar characteristics. I think Cain is a killer and he's very, very similar to Fedor in body type, skill set and style, but here's how I rate your 12 guys with some current UFC heavyweights. We can argue any name up or down a couple of slots, but I think this is close ... names in italics are dudes Cain hasn't actually fought yet.

1 Fedor's Nogueira
2 Cain's dos Santos
3 Cain's Overeem
4 Cain's Brock
5 Fedor's Cro Cop

6 Cain's Werdum
7 Fedor's Arlovski
8 Cain's Cormier
9 Cain's Mir
10 Fedor's Randleman
11 Fedor's Rogers
12 Cain's Nelson
13 Fedor's Herring
14 Cain's Bigfoot
15 Fedor's Schilt
16 Cain's Struve
17 Fedor's Sylvia
18 Fedor's Sobral
19 Fedor's Fujita
20 Fedor's Hunt
Wait, what? Brock is suddenly a top level fighter? If you want to get into tailor made matchups, we can dig into his resume.

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01-04-2013, 07:57 PM
  #634
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Cain also won't fight Cormier unless somehow they have a rift.

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01-04-2013, 08:00 PM
  #635
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And also, Prime CC is better than Overeem is now. Especially without the roids. There's a reason that fight had the biggest aura around it ever.

And again, I don't think it's conclusive that Cain will end up fighting Mir. Mir is at the end of his road and likely won't get a shot.

I also disagree with the placement of Struve and Nelson. Struve, at the time of the Cain fight, was largely still developing. He would probably be the bottom guy here. Nelson is probably on par with the Hunt victory.

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01-04-2013, 10:27 PM
  #636
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Junior wont lose a third fight to him

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01-04-2013, 11:05 PM
  #637
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What is he going to do to not lose? Knock him out in a minute again? If anything this fight showed that's the only way he can't lose to Cain.

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01-04-2013, 11:19 PM
  #638
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Not only did Cain take JDS down over and over again but he also showed that he can strike with him. Obviously standing up and boxing with JDS wouldn't be the smart thing to do for an entire fight but Cain won't be outclassed by JDS like some other HWs would. If/when they fight again, JDS should pray that Cain comes into the fight on one leg again.

I just hope Dana doesn't give in and make an immediate rematch like JDS is asking for. He should have to win at least one fight against a top ranked HW, maybe even two before he fights for the title again.

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01-04-2013, 11:56 PM
  #639
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I just hope Dana doesn't give in and make an immediate rematch like JDS is asking for. He should have to win at least one fight against a top ranked HW, maybe even two before he fights for the title again.
Zero chance this happens IMO. Where it gets interesting though is who then do you match JDS up with? Looks like it will be Cormier-Mir, we already have Nog-Werdum, Overeem-Bigfoot, and he's already beaten Nelson and Carwin. I would love to see the Hunt-Struve fight scrapped so we could see those two go at it, but that aside I'm not sure, Barnett perhaps? I think if fights go as they should we'll see Cain and Overeem and then that winner against Werdum. Assuming JDS doesn't lose I would guess that would be the earliest he would get another title shot.

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01-05-2013, 12:48 AM
  #640
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Zero chance this happens IMO. Where it gets interesting though is who then do you match JDS up with? Looks like it will be Cormier-Mir, we already have Nog-Werdum, Overeem-Bigfoot, and he's already beaten Nelson and Carwin. I would love to see the Hunt-Struve fight scrapped so we could see those two go at it, but that aside I'm not sure, Barnett perhaps? I think if fights go as they should we'll see Cain and Overeem and then that winner against Werdum. Assuming JDS doesn't lose I would guess that would be the earliest he would get another title shot.
JDS can take on Barnett, Werdum, or the Bigfoot/Overeem loser in the late Spring/early Summer. Plenty of options.

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01-05-2013, 12:54 AM
  #641
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JDS can take on Barnett, Werdum, or the Bigfoot/Overeem loser in the late Spring/early Summer. Plenty of options.
JDS/Barnett would be cool.

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01-05-2013, 01:24 AM
  #642
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JDS/Barnett would be cool.
Agreed. Plus I'm sure Dana wouldn't mind giving Barnett a tough fight.

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01-05-2013, 01:57 AM
  #643
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Agreed. Plus I'm sure Dana wouldn't mind giving Barnett a tough fight.
Was just thinking the same thing. Gives JDS a chance to prove he can beat a strong wrestler/grappler as well.

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01-05-2013, 02:27 AM
  #644
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You guys are baked if you think JDS is going to get a strong wrestler again right away.

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01-05-2013, 10:46 AM
  #645
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I love JDS/Barnett but not right after this fight. Both of them need a win, which Barnett will get soon.

JDS/HD Barry makes sense.

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01-05-2013, 11:45 AM
  #646
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I love JDS/Barnett but not right after this fight. Both of them need a win, which Barnett will get soon.

JDS/HD Barry makes sense.
I doubt JDS will drop that far in competition. Him vs Bigfoot/Overeem loser is the most likely scenario.

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01-05-2013, 12:28 PM
  #647
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I doubt JDS will drop that far in competition. Him vs Bigfoot/Overeem loser is the most likely scenario.
It's less of a drop in competition and more of him getting a warm up fight.

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01-05-2013, 12:54 PM
  #648
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It's less of a drop in competition and more of him getting a warm up fight.
When Cain lost he was was scheduled to fight Mir and then fought Bigfoot. I would expect a similar level of fight considering it's a similar situation. Doubt they drop him down to fight a guy who is a fringe level guy.

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01-05-2013, 02:08 PM
  #649
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When Cain lost he was was scheduled to fight Mir and then fought Bigfoot. I would expect a similar level of fight considering it's a similar situation. Doubt they drop him down to fight a guy who is a fringe level guy.
Judging by the way Dana spoke about his performance, justifiably, I think he'll end up having to take one of those fights. Maybe a Struve rematch instead, but something that'll be off the top 10 to get things in order.

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01-05-2013, 02:21 PM
  #650
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Judging by the way Dana spoke about his performance, justifiably, I think he'll end up having to take one of those fights. Maybe a Struve rematch instead, but something that'll be off the top 10 to get things in order.
That would surprise me but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

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