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Everything Canada (goaltending, coaching, future)

View Poll Results: ....
Yes 83 55.70%
No 41 27.52%
Maybe/Depends on the situation 25 16.78%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-05-2013, 03:35 PM
  #501
TieClark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
2006:

David Bolland
Dustin Boyd
Daniel Bertram
Michael Blunden
Kyle Chipchura
Andrew Cogliano
Blake Comeau
Steve Downie
Guillaume Latendresse
Ryan O'Marra
Benoit Pouliot
Tom Pyatt
Jonathan Toews

Other than Toews, I sure don't see a lot to get excited about there. And that team won gold. A lot depends on the goaltender and the coach.
Difference there was that they played Canadian hockey. The hit hard, they forechecked hard, they were hard on the puck, they played as a team.

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01-05-2013, 03:36 PM
  #502
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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I don't care if people think he's a bad coach, but I there actually would be arguements against. Before the last two round-robin games, it was "Subban shouldn't have started he sucked in the camp" and "He cut Corrado". After those games, those claims were muffled and as soon as Canada plays that horrible semi-final game (Which they wouldn't be the first team with a bye to play like that) it was "He didn't prepare the team well enough!" and the Murphy hate came back agian.

Let me ask the people who said this, were you guys in the lockeroom before, during and after that game? How would anyone know how well he prepared the team. You can't assume just because Canada came out flat that means they weren't prepared. Maybe they just came out flat, maybe two days off hurt them (It hurts many a team).

And Murphy, he was the red headed step child the entire tournement, with the lynch mob coming out everytime he made a mistake. Who would have made it over him? Not Corrado, because Wotherspoon took Corrado's spot. He also certainly didn't make it because it was his coach, I don't see any reason why a different coach wouldn't have picked him either. He had an extremely strong summer tournement, and despite not putting up great point totals (But with a point percetentage similar to his other years) he was still strong in the OHL this year. He's also tenfold more talented then the other potential candidates and he dominated on international ice two years ago at the U18 tournement. So beyond the irrational hate, why would another coach cut him and only Spott would keep him?

Spott has his problems, he's only been a head coach for 5 years, he's stil relatively inexperienced and any Rangers fan can tell you he's made mistakes, but peope laying what seems like the entire blame on him? A coach is bad to me if he gets outcoached and makes decisions that can be proven to hurt this team. Well he didn't get outcoached, his team got outplayed but there's not much any coach can do about that, and his decisions weren't that bad, he made some bold moves to play Drouin over MacKinnon, start Subban despite poor recent performance and give Murphy top six ice time (Which didn't cost Canada any game, not even the last one, because Murphy was not even close to 100% at fault for that, at most he's 50% to blame with Rielly). He didn't hit a homerun with all his decisions, but you cannot pinpoint any of his moves, and save with a shadow of a doubt, he cost the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HLLYWD99 View Post
Ranger fans have had enough of him also, he rode DeBoers coat tails in Plymouth then followed him to Kitchener and got his job when Pete went to the show. I would expect he will be unemployed sometime in April.
There is no chance Kitchener fires him. They might bring in someone to help instead of him handling GM and coach but Kitchener's board of governors will never fire Spott.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
He was a hack during the entire process. Hope he never has the chance to Coach a Team Canada again.

I had a feeling that the choice of Murphy would come back to haunt us on a big play (winning goal).




#ShouldOfPickedCorrado
They wouldn't have even been in overtime if not for Murphy. That final play was as much a fault of Rielly's (He started it and failed to cover his defensive partner). Also, I don't see why people blame the defender on plays like this, how about praising the scorer? If all scoring players came off mistakes where the defenders were 100% at fault skill wouldn't matter.

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Old
01-05-2013, 03:40 PM
  #503
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Pure nonsense. It obviously is a big deal and that is why people care about it. Keep pumping this comment and it will hold as much interest as the spengler cup. Also these guys are not pee wees to be patted on the head for trying hard. They are already playing in a very competative junior league one step away from the NHL.

If a supossed power doesn't win for 4 or 5 years in a row then your country is now a secondary hockey power.
I'm not going to overreact there. The Americans finished 7th last year and are being touted as the current, undisputed POWER in junior hockey after winning Gold for the second time in five years.

With very few players eligible to return next year from this year's team, Canada could see a fast turnaround. The current crop of Canadians aren't very good.

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01-05-2013, 03:43 PM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Pure nonsense. It obviously is a big deal and that is why people care about it. Keep pumping this comment and it will hold as much interest as the spengler cup. Also these guys are not pee wees to be patted on the head for trying hard. They are already playing in a very competative junior league one step away from the NHL.

If a supossed power doesn't win for 4 or 5 years in a row then your country is now a secondary hockey power.
The suggestion that canada is a second rate hockey power is ludicrous. As someone else pointed out, canadian players (most wjc teams in general) are set up to fail and its amazing when they have a standout performance. The amount of hyperbole being thrown around is stupid even for hf standards. But this wjc team was the most stacked in a long time so it clearly was because the team was not prepared and had a poor gameplan. At the same time, if dougie hamilton doesnt boof the empty net, if ritchie doesnt hit an unlucky post

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01-05-2013, 03:44 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
How are guys like Lipon, Hudon, Camara, Jenner or Ritchie all stars of any kind?
There were a few shifts where Jenner showed that he might be serviceable in a 4th line role on a "proper" team, but all in all I ask myself the same question about the same list of players. I'll even throw Rattie in there. Completely underwhelming, along with the rest of the names with them at the top of the WHL scoring race (same as last year, too, beyond perhaps Bartschi and Etem).

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01-05-2013, 03:45 PM
  #506
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Seems like our goalies faced a lot higher quality shots than most people were projecting considering what was supposedly a "stacked" blueline this year. I know Murphy was bad in his own end, but he wasn't alone and you have to include the forwards in that as well. Binnington had a rough day and Subban gave up a couple of questionable goals as times but was also brilliant for a large portion of the minutes he was out there, saving our bacon on numerous occasions. Looks like it's time to address the defensive side of things with next year's team.

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01-05-2013, 03:46 PM
  #507
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It's Paterson.

Paterson hasn't been as good in OHL this year.. though the team isn't good GAA 4.5 the last 4 games..

But Subban and Binnington had much 'bigger case' for the #1 spot than Paterson. One game at camp wasn't enough to push him above the others. Which was correct.

I'm a Wings fan but I doubt Paterson would have saved them from losing to US. They had bigger issues than the kid on the net on that game.

It would have been outrageous imo if Paterson had been named the starter.. especially if/when Paterson wouldn't have delivered the gold.. the reaction around here..

Paterson gets his chance next year.

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Old
01-05-2013, 03:47 PM
  #508
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Brent Sutter, Craig Hartsburg or Andy Murray. Those are your choices next year, Hockey Canada. Or should we just eliminate Murray now since he coaches in the inferior NCAA?

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01-05-2013, 03:47 PM
  #509
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Watching him in the WHL playoffs last year I was underwhelmed by Rattie despite his 57 goal, 121 point regular season. Sven Bartschi stirred the drink on their line in Portland.

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01-05-2013, 03:48 PM
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post


They wouldn't have even been in overtime if not for Murphy. That final play was as much a fault of Rielly's (He started it and failed to cover his defensive partner). Also, I don't see why people blame the defender on plays like this, how about praising the scorer? If all scoring players came off mistakes where the defenders were 100% at fault skill wouldn't matter.
Good on him for showing up when the only thing the could win was a Bronze Medal, would have been nice if he could have done it when it really mattered. Clearly he was inspired:

Quote:
'Bronze is still a medal, it’s 3rd in the world, it’s not like it’s a crappy award to win.' - Ryan Murphy
I agree that Rielly is also to fault on the final play but IMO Murphy was in a good position to start off but made a Poor defensive read. Nichuskin walked around him like he was a peewee player. Murphy can't defend & putting him on a pairing with Rielly is a head shaker of a move if there was one.... however Murphy making the team in the first place was the first indication of head shaking moves to come.

Murphy wouldn't be getting this hate if Spott didn't shove him down our throats the entire tournament when he did absolutely nothing to deserve the ice time he got... nothing till the last game.

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01-05-2013, 03:50 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I'm not going to overreact there. The Americans finished 7th last year and are being touted as the current, undisputed POWER in junior hockey after winning Gold for the second time in five years.

With very few players eligible to return next year from this year's team, Canada could see a fast turnaround. The current crop of Canadians aren't very good.
Have you taken a look or considered what Canada's lineup will look like next year? It doesn't look good. Assuming that Mackinnon will be in the NHL and most likely Drouin as well, I think 50/50 he sticks with his NHL club, our best center will be 16 year old McDavid. Who else is there? Sean Monahan or Brenden Leipsic? Another year of the Bob Mackenzie love fest with Charles Hudon? Holy ****TTTT

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01-05-2013, 03:52 PM
  #512
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Wow. I had no clue there were so many experienced and knowledgeable coaches here on HF. Spott should definitely watch his back with so many talented up and comers right here in this very thread.

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01-05-2013, 03:53 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
Spott was horrible from day 1...resting the "locks" again the CIS teams gives the "vets" a sense of entitlement they didn't deserve

-choosing Murphy was a brutal decision
-unprepared in the Semi's from the drop of the puck


seriously, how did this guy get the job??
Agree 100%

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01-05-2013, 03:53 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by FinRuutu View Post
I predict that Subban will never get a steady job in NHL. Few games, maybe... career 2nd, not likely... starting job, never.
I'm interested, how many games have you seen him play?

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01-05-2013, 03:57 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Have you taken a look or considered what Canada's lineup will look like next year? It doesn't look good. Assuming that Mackinnon will be in the NHL and most likely Drouin as well, I think 50/50 he sticks with his NHL club, our best center will be 16 year old McDavid. Who else is there? Sean Monahan or Brenden Leipsic? Another year of the Bob Mackenzie love fest with Charles Hudon? Holy ****TTTT
You never know. Hockey players develop a tonne between the ages of 16 and 19. Guys will emerge as elite players between now and next December.

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01-05-2013, 04:00 PM
  #516
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Wow. I had no clue there were so many experienced and knowledgeable coaches here on HF. Spott should definitely watch his back with so many talented up and comers right here in this very thread.
Nope, but one of the three I mentioned would not doubt do a better job.

Perhaps the shine of gold is bliding you from seeing how piss poor Spott was not only during the tournament but preparation leading up to it. Sutter, Hartsburg or Murray coaching turns the semi-final into a much different game. Not saying we'd have won, but the effort from Canada would have been better ten fold.

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01-05-2013, 04:01 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
I don't care if people think he's a bad coach, but I there actually would be arguements against. Before the last two round-robin games, it was "Subban shouldn't have started he sucked in the camp" and "He cut Corrado". After those games, those claims were muffled and as soon as Canada plays that horrible semi-final game (Which they wouldn't be the first team with a bye to play like that) it was "He didn't prepare the team well enough!" and the Murphy hate came back agian.

Let me ask the people who said this, were you guys in the lockeroom before, during and after that game? How would anyone know how well he prepared the team. You can't assume just because Canada came out flat that means they weren't prepared. Maybe they just came out flat, maybe two days off hurt them (It hurts many a team).

And Murphy, he was the red headed step child the entire tournement, with the lynch mob coming out everytime he made a mistake. Who would have made it over him? Not Corrado, because Wotherspoon took Corrado's spot. He also certainly didn't make it because it was his coach, I don't see any reason why a different coach wouldn't have picked him either. He had an extremely strong summer tournement, and despite not putting up great point totals (But with a point percetentage similar to his other years) he was still strong in the OHL this year. He's also tenfold more talented then the other potential candidates and he dominated on international ice two years ago at the U18 tournement. So beyond the irrational hate, why would another coach cut him and only Spott would keep him?

Spott has his problems, he's only been a head coach for 5 years, he's stil relatively inexperienced and any Rangers fan can tell you he's made mistakes, but peope laying what seems like the entire blame on him? A coach is bad to me if he gets outcoached and makes decisions that can be proven to hurt this team. Well he didn't get outcoached, his team got outplayed but there's not much any coach can do about that, and his decisions weren't that bad, he made some bold moves to play Drouin over MacKinnon, start Subban despite poor recent performance and give Murphy top six ice time (Which didn't cost Canada any game, not even the last one, because Murphy was not even close to 100% at fault for that, at most he's 50% to blame with Rielly). He didn't hit a homerun with all his decisions, but you cannot pinpoint any of his moves, and save with a shadow of a doubt, he cost the team.



There is no chance Kitchener fires him. They might bring in someone to help instead of him handling GM and coach but Kitchener's board of governors will never fire Spott.



They wouldn't have even been in overtime if not for Murphy. That final play was as much a fault of Rielly's (He started it and failed to cover his defensive partner). Also, I don't see why people blame the defender on plays like this, how about praising the scorer? If all scoring players came off mistakes where the defenders were 100% at fault skill wouldn't matter.
He blew by Murphy like he was standing still. He didn't even get a stick on him. Pathetic display of defense from a guy who was sub par all tournament long. There isn't a coach aside from Rex Ryan-- err Spott that would have taken him based on how he's played.

You're praising his play from 2 years and clearly a Kitchener fan. That's fine, but I think it was more than fitting that it was Murphy who got burned at the end there considering his coach was force feeding him so many undeserved minutes.

Spott lost the tournament for this team. Murphy cost them the game.

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01-05-2013, 04:02 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Have you taken a look or considered what Canada's lineup will look like next year? It doesn't look good. Assuming that Mackinnon will be in the NHL and most likely Drouin as well, I think 50/50 he sticks with his NHL club, our best center will be 16 year old McDavid. Who else is there? Sean Monahan or Brenden Leipsic? Another year of the Bob Mackenzie love fest with Charles Hudon? Holy ****TTTT
Holy over-reaction Batman!

Canada will still be the favorites at next year's WJC. The fact that they didn't win this year means nothing in terms of how Canada is developing hockey players.

Canada was outplayed this year, it had nothing to do with their talent pool. Canada could probably ice 3 or 4 competitive World junior teams..perhaps more...i'm not trying to sound arrogant, it's just the truth. Why people think that a round robin elimination tournament determines the best hockey nation is absurd to me in the first place.

I think all countries stand a fair debate if we talk about top end talent. But if we're talking about depth the amount of talent Canada brings to hockey is unparalleled. Some may say this is also arrogant but I just say it is once again the truth. That isn't to say, however, that other countries aren't catching up. Just take a look at the draft..littered with Canadians.

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01-05-2013, 04:07 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
It's Paterson.

Paterson hasn't been as good in OHL this year.. though the team isn't good GAA 4.5 the last 4 games..

But Subban and Binnington had much 'bigger case' for the #1 spot than Paterson. One game at camp wasn't enough to push him above the others. Which was correct.

I'm a Wings fan but I doubt Paterson would have saved them from losing to US. They had bigger issues than the kid on the net on that game.

It would have been outrageous imo if Paterson had been named the starter.. especially if/when Paterson wouldn't have delivered the gold.. the reaction around here..

Paterson gets his chance next year.
Oh god I'm so sorry, are you going to publically hang me for misspelling a name, heaven forbid someone have a grammatical error on the Internet... Do you point out these to authors of books when they have a typo...

Non the less you come to selection camp to prove your worth, Paterson proved his worth and got shelved. Binnington was nothing spectacular and subban was down right atrocious all camp.

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01-05-2013, 04:09 PM
  #520
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I don't usually blame a player or coach for an entire teams failings but I do agree that he did a poor job. Didn't like his demeanor and he seemed to have a hard time adapting. USA was all over us on the fore-check all game and the team made no adjustments. He often gave too much ice-time to certain players that weren't as deserving. his selections of the team seemed to be favorites as opposed to picking a TEAM.

It just felt like his philosophy was the polar opposite to what Hockey Canada has always preached. A team game with many roles. that was all thrown out the window right after training camp.

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01-05-2013, 04:09 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by scythe View Post
It's funny, when it was Subban everyone was piling on. When it's Binnington everyone is saying give the kid a break. Hmmm....
Subban shouldnt have started in the first place...he had done nothing to prove he desreved to start. In camp all 3 goalies played better than him. Brossoit got cut based on pure politics...then somehow Subban got to start over Binnington. Not saying canada would have won gold with Binnington in net but it seems Subban was handed the starting job on a platter and faltered.

On that note pretty much every canadian played sub par this entire tournament other than the select few.

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01-05-2013, 04:10 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
Nah.

Canada scored 1 goal. And it's not like the American goalie had to stand on his head too. Canada's offense just wasn't there. That's your problem right there.
The problem was everywhere but in the past we sometime did win thanks to excellent goaltending without having the best forwards. Goaltending have been our weakest position for some time now.

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01-05-2013, 04:11 PM
  #523
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Lol @ so many people saying they knew this team was bad at the beginning.

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01-05-2013, 04:13 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by TheNuge View Post
Oh god I'm so sorry, are you going to publically hang me for misspelling a name, heaven forbid someone have a grammatical error on the Internet... Do you point out these to authors of books when they have a typo...
Lmao, relax. You wrote him with two t-letters twice; there IS Jake Patterson, the kid plays in London. Many here have wrote Patterson and have thought he was the player in question.

I didn't and don't think it was a big deal, and never indicated it was.

Quote:
Non the less you come to selection camp to prove your worth, Paterson proved his worth and got shelved.
Not in Team Canada.

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01-05-2013, 04:13 PM
  #525
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So it was Subban's fault that the US was in the Canada zone for pretty much the first 2 periods? Canada was awful up and down. Blaming this on any one player, especially the goalie is ridiculous and detracting from the real reason why Canada lost
We're not saying that. Didn't you read the title? Subban not to blame. As you said, we sucked from top to bottom. We're just saying that Subban didn't help.

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