HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Roster Talk '13 — Canada 5.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-04-2013, 06:46 PM
  #951
SephF
See you next time
 
SephF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I think Canada needs to step away from the traditional 'top 6 for scoring, bottom 6 for grinding' system they implement. Put skilled, speedy wingers with big centers on the bottom 2 lines and carry a PK specialist as the extra man.
Pretty much did that this year with MacKinnon and Drouin as wingers and Jenner as a bigger centerman who excels on the PK (and leads the OHL in goals)

SephF is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 08:38 PM
  #952
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I think Canada needs to step away from the traditional 'top 6 for scoring, bottom 6 for grinding' system they implement. Put skilled, speedy wingers with big centers on the bottom 2 lines and carry a PK specialist as the extra man.
Canada's biggest mistake of the last few years has been their attempt to do exactly what you're suggesting.

Who on this team is a "bottom-6 grinder"?

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 08:53 PM
  #953
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Canada's biggest mistake of the last few years has been their attempt to do exactly what you're suggesting.

Who on this team is a "bottom-6 grinder"?
Lipon, Camara, Jenner

Kershaw is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 10:50 PM
  #954
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Lipon, Camara, Jenner
First of all, you said Canada was going with a bottom-6, but you can only name 3 "grinders".

Second, and more importantly, those guys aren't bottom-6 grinders. You could replace them with guys who don't posess defensive and physical skills, but you'd have to take guys who are one-dymentional AND less offensively gifted.

Lipon was leading the WHL in scoring when he was invited to camp. Jenner was leading the OHL in goals when he was invited. Just because those guys have more than just offense in their game doesn't make them "grinders".

Camara, who is probably closest to a grinder, is leading the OHL's 2nd best offense in goals. He's also got a better goals per game average than league leader Seth Griffith.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 11:28 AM
  #955
JackSlater
Registered User
 
JackSlater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,118
vCash: 500
Really glad that Canada lost the bronze. Now Hockey Canada won't be able to write off this failure by citing medals in 15 consecutive years. Time to look at what went wrong and try to resolve it.

The issue this year was not the roster. There are a few selections you can argue with, but this team was much more talented than everyone else in the tournament and was easily good enough to win. The problem was how they actually played. Seems to me that coaching and mentality have been big issues for Canada the last few years. For the mentality part, I believe the team should not receive all star treatment throughout the whole process. Hockey Canada should limit TSN's access to the players both before and during the tournament. Players should feel a sense of accomplishment from winning gold, not from making the team and seeing themselves all over TSN.

Coaching is a big issue as well. The recent run of five golds featured four teams with tremendous coaching, from Brent Sutter and Craig Hartsburg. I wasn't a fan of the run and gun style of the 2009 team. Anyway, Canada needs to pick a great coach for next year, and I'm hopeful that it's someone without a player in contention for the team. My hope is Andy Murray. Tons of international success and he's coaching young players in the NCAA currently.

JackSlater is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 12:58 PM
  #956
Ryp37
Registered User
 
Ryp37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,557
vCash: 500
i'm sure it's been said, but ryan murphy are you kidding me

Ryp37 is online now  
Old
01-05-2013, 01:13 PM
  #957
CDJ*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Country: United States
Posts: 8,595
vCash: 500
People who were criticizing the Camara pick as picking a 4th line grinder too early are looking iffy right now. Myself included in that group.

CDJ* is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 01:18 PM
  #958
Mr Writer
Registered User
 
Mr Writer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Really glad that Canada lost the bronze. Now Hockey Canada won't be able to write off this failure by citing medals in 15 consecutive years. Time to look at what went wrong and try to resolve it.

The issue this year was not the roster. There are a few selections you can argue with, but this team was much more talented than everyone else in the tournament and was easily good enough to win. The problem was how they actually played. Seems to me that coaching and mentality have been big issues for Canada the last few years. For the mentality part, I believe the team should not receive all star treatment throughout the whole process. Hockey Canada should limit TSN's access to the players both before and during the tournament. Players should feel a sense of accomplishment from winning gold, not from making the team and seeing themselves all over TSN.

Coaching is a big issue as well. The recent run of five golds featured four teams with tremendous coaching, from Brent Sutter and Craig Hartsburg. I wasn't a fan of the run and gun style of the 2009 team. Anyway, Canada needs to pick a great coach for next year, and I'm hopeful that it's someone without a player in contention for the team. My hope is Andy Murray. Tons of international success and he's coaching young players in the NCAA currently.
I'm in full agreement with you! especially with regards to TSN, and the corporate asskissssing Hockey Canada does for it's sponsors. Time to return the junior program back to its roots, program of excellence and not a corporate cash cow for Hockey Canada.

Mr Writer is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 01:21 PM
  #959
Rocko604
Registered User
 
Rocko604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Really glad that Canada lost the bronze. Now Hockey Canada won't be able to write off this failure by citing medals in 15 consecutive years. Time to look at what went wrong and try to resolve it.

The issue this year was not the roster. There are a few selections you can argue with, but this team was much more talented than everyone else in the tournament and was easily good enough to win. The problem was how they actually played. Seems to me that coaching and mentality have been big issues for Canada the last few years. For the mentality part, I believe the team should not receive all star treatment throughout the whole process. Hockey Canada should limit TSN's access to the players both before and during the tournament. Players should feel a sense of accomplishment from winning gold, not from making the team and seeing themselves all over TSN.

Coaching is a big issue as well. The recent run of five golds featured four teams with tremendous coaching, from Brent Sutter and Craig Hartsburg. I wasn't a fan of the run and gun style of the 2009 team. Anyway, Canada needs to pick a great coach for next year, and I'm hopeful that it's someone without a player in contention for the team. My hope is Andy Murray. Tons of international success and he's coaching young players in the NCAA currently.
I think it would have to be a cold day in Hell before they ever name an NCAA coach as the Head Coach for the World Junior Team, international pedigree such as Murray's or not.


Last edited by Rocko604: 01-05-2013 at 02:09 PM.
Rocko604 is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 02:05 PM
  #960
GoBlue99
Registered User
 
GoBlue99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryp37 View Post
i'm sure it's been said, but ryan murphy are you kidding me
Ryan Murphy was awful defensively all game. This loss is on Spott, pure and simple. The only defensemen that should have been on the ice in that overtime was Wotherspoon, Ouellett, Harrington or Hamilton......let alone having Rielly and Murphy on the ice at the same time.

GoBlue99 is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 02:23 PM
  #961
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,769
vCash: 500
Something doesn't add up here. And what was the US recipe? They didn't invite "grinders"? They invited all their offensive power? Really?
I mean, yes, it's just the "What if" game, but Canada was beaten by a better team and a really hot and great goalie. And lost a medal 'cause the coaching staff were stupid enough to think that Binnington would save them. They don't do that, and we have a medal. By the way, superstar offensive force Ty Rattie was there. What did he do? And what people are calling a grinder in Lipon...why do you think the guy was invited? 'Cause at one point, he was destroying the league OFFENSIVELY. Was laughing at it and was having points left and right and wasn't even looking. He'll go back in his team and he'll rack the points like there's no tomorrow. Drouin, love the guy, would pick him any day of the week...didn't he quiet down? Which non-drafted kid was key component of his WJC team? Lindholm? Surely. Barkov? I keep hearing so many things about him not dominating and so on. Geez, you even had trouble to see Galchenyuk and Yakupov dominate...why would Shinkaruk and Monahan do it?

Don't look......shhhhhh....don't say it too loud.....but....Canada SYSTEM is that....it's like the other teams.....WE NEED GREAT GOALTENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!! If that great team that is the US don't have Gibson 'cause he's hurt and end up with Gillies....do they seriously win it all? Everybody keeps saying that Russia had the best incredible duo, yet both guys looked beatable. Why would Gillies repeat what Gibson did? And if he's unable....would suddenly the US SYSTEM be a failure? How was the Swedish goalie today?

Come on people....every year it's the freakin same thing. We are allowed to bash whatever pleases us, but little sanity wouldn't hurt. To say that we would have prefered this over that player, I have nothing against...but now to claim that THE SYYYYYYYSTEM doesn't work is ludicrous at best. At worst, I'd go with what McKenzie said...don't cut before you end up playing the real tournament. Will suck for the kid or kids sent home just before, but it will be great for THE TEAM just in case of injuries or surprising or letdown performances.

THE PROBLEM with why we don't win is because countries are catching up. Just like every freakin sport out there that some countries dominate and then other countries develop themselves and can compete. We are still amongst the best. We won't have to play in a relegation round soon....don't worry.

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 02:26 PM
  #962
LeafOfBread
van Dreamsdyk
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,119
vCash: 500
It'll be good to cleanse this team of the current batch of '93s (ironically my birth year) and have fresh faces next year. Coaching needs to be seriously looked at; no more of this ****ing "old boys club" mentality ******** anymore.

LeafOfBread is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 04:28 PM
  #963
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 22,350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Lipon was leading the WHL in scoring when he was invited to camp.
This is why kids 10 years later have a hard time grasping the differences between guys scoring similar points in different CHL leagues when armed only with Google and hockeyreference/db/etc. How much are we supposed to take away from the points totals in a league where the top scorers are highlighted by Lipon, Rattie, and a bunch of guys who have little to no international pedigree since joining a junior league?

Look at the 40, 50, and 60 point players in each of the CHL pools, start building "ideal" lines for as many of the WJC represented countries as you can, and see what conclusions you can draw on your own. If anything, that kind of comparison makes me leery about defense/goaltending coming out of the WHL these days, lol.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
01-05-2013, 05:14 PM
  #964
Systemfel
Global Moderator
Hockey Talk by Country
 
Systemfel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Gothenburg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,706
vCash: 500
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1316243

Systemfel is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.