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World Junior Championships (All WJC talk here)

View Poll Results: Who will win Gold
Canada 16 66.67%
USA 5 20.83%
Russia 1 4.17%
Sweden 0 0%
Finland 2 8.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:39 PM
  #176
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Great showing by the Americans. Trouba is an absolute horse on the blue line. Gibson was a stone wall. Galchenyuk and Gadreau are two incredibly skilled players. Seth Jones is a raw monster. They've all got bright futures.

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01-05-2013, 04:44 PM
  #177
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It would be sad if Murray turned out to be a bit of a lame duck (remember Erik Johnson?) and Trouba becomes a beast. Well, sad for Columbus fans that is, and I'm no fan of picking a defenseman in the top 5 unless he's some dominant alien creature the likes of which we've never seen before.

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01-05-2013, 05:03 PM
  #178
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I don't see Murray becoming anything less than a good top 4 dman. But like many have said, his ceiling might not be as high as some of those picked after him.

I think Minny really made the mistake of picking Dumba. Not a fan of him. The Pouliot pick was weird too. IMO Dumba and Pouliot going before Trouba will turn out to be a huge mistake. Trouba showed a ton of potential last WJCs and if you watch him at Michigan you can see that he has the talent to be a two way beast in the NHL. I think Cody Ceci may be a bad pick as well with Teravainen and Maatta on board. This whole 1st round was just weird.

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01-05-2013, 05:04 PM
  #179
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TT looked impressive from what I saw of WJC

Shalunov and Danault were solid in both ends (Though not successfull offensively)

McNeill was disappointing

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01-05-2013, 05:04 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
This team isnt going anywhere until those prospects become NHL'ers. And considering Blowman seems to like the players he has either traded for or chose in the draft, you cannot pass on a franchise defenseman who will become the best defenseman on the Hawks faster then slower.

I get it. The glimmer of hope that this team, constructed as it is at the moment, might get some players who peak at a certain time and might make a dent in the playoffs, with thoughts of the Cup year still fresh in so many Hawk fans heads. But the thing is, that team had a surplus of depth of which has been proven to be probably the greatest group of talent the Hawks might have ever seen, with many of those players being huge difference makers for other teams since the purge. That, isnt here anymore, and wont be until these highly reguarded prospects in this forum are on the team. Many which make the Hawks so top heavy in forward prospects that there can be a trade to actually fix what is wrong with the Hawks, namely, the defense.

You are not gonna win a Cup with a pylon like Nick Leddy playing top four minutes, sad but true. You are not winning anything with the scrap heap defenseman Blowman has kicked the tires on hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. But, what you will do, is get a projected franchise defenseman, an american kid no less, who has been compared to Pronger taking the burden off of the Hawks top pairing which would in turn make Keith play better then he has since his Norris year by doing the one thing nobody on this defense can actually do...give him a rest here and there.

Again, the Hawks have no problem scoring goals, they have a problem letting them in their own net.
I didn't even read all of this. You don't trade current, in their prime, NHL stars for 18-year-olds who may or may not turn out to be great NHLers. Simple as that.

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01-05-2013, 05:07 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
TT looked impressive from what I saw of WJC

Shalunov and Danault were solid in both ends (Though not successfull offensively)

McNeill was disappointing
Shalunov barely played the last two games from what I saw. Considering how he played at the SSS, and his age, he was kind of a disappointment.

McNeill and Danault were checkers/grinders that weren't expected to produce. Neither got a second of PP and both were used mostly on the PK (though Danault got more minutes at ES). Neither Danault or McNeill were disappointing, they just weren't Kitchener Rangers'.

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01-05-2013, 05:18 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
I don't see Murray becoming anything less than a good top 4 dman. But like many have said, his ceiling might not be as high as some of those picked after him.

I think Minny really made the mistake of picking Dumba. Not a fan of him. The Pouliot pick was weird too. IMO Dumba and Pouliot going before Trouba will turn out to be a huge mistake. Trouba showed a ton of potential last WJCs and if you watch him at Michigan you can see that he has the talent to be a two way beast in the NHL. I think Cody Ceci may be a bad pick as well with Teravainen and Maatta on board. This whole 1st round was just weird.
Agreed. I figured Trouba would be the next defenseman of the board after Murray.

Really don't get the Murray/Erik Johnson comparison. If anything, Seth Jones is an EJ comparable. Both raw physical specimens with all the tools. Murray is a solid, cerebral player. Columbus made a good pick there.

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01-05-2013, 05:19 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Shalunov barely played the last two games from what I saw. Considering how he played at the SSS, and his age, he was kind of a disappointment.

McNeill and Danault were checkers/grinders that weren't expected to produce. Neither got a second of PP and both were used mostly on the PK (though Danault got more minutes at ES). Neither Danault or McNeill were disappointing, they just weren't Kitchener Rangers'.
Shalunov is 1 month older then Mcneill/Danault

Please explain to me how that 1 month difference makes him a disappointment? And he was more noticeable then McNeill/Danault in Bronze medal game (Picked up an assist)


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 01-05-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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01-05-2013, 05:21 PM
  #184
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BWC, why are you always high on our Russians and Euros?

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01-05-2013, 05:24 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
BWC, why are you always high on our Russians and Euros?
Nope

I didn't think much of Kruger (Or any of Hawks Swedes)

As for Russians ,, I was high on Vorobiev but wasn't all that fond of Yakubov

I still contend that Vorobiev got a raw deal here in Chicago especially how Yawney treated him compared to rest of team in 06 and Tallon clearly didn't like him and wanted him (And rest of our East Euro's) gone


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 01-05-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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01-05-2013, 06:07 PM
  #186
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BWC basically loves all russian/soviet players. Zhamnov for example... too


Easy to say you don't trade Kane, Sharp, Keith or Seabrook for a 18 year old prospect. No discussion, you just don't do it


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 01-05-2013 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Took out part about Martini and ignore list
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01-05-2013, 06:17 PM
  #187
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Zhamnov was a good player ,, Got alot of flak and hatred unfairly because he was guy JR was traded for

Never got a fair chance from many fans before he even set foot on ice. He was always quality player for Hawks

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01-05-2013, 06:17 PM
  #188
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Who didn't like Zhamnov? Aside from the people in the 300's who constantly screamed for him to shoot.

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01-05-2013, 07:07 PM
  #189
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Vorobiev definitely got shafted here. He was an offensively gifted forward that was expected to play a fourth line Alberta kids game.

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01-05-2013, 07:34 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I didn't even read all of this. You don't trade current, in their prime, NHL stars for 18-year-olds who may or may not turn out to be great NHLers. Simple as that.
Joe Nieuwendyk for Jarome Iginla

Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz

Yashin for Chara and Spezza.

Shall I go on?

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01-05-2013, 07:50 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
Agreed. I figured Trouba would be the next defenseman of the board after Murray.

Really don't get the Murray/Erik Johnson comparison. If anything, Seth Jones is an EJ comparable. Both raw physical specimens with all the tools. Murray is a solid, cerebral player. Columbus made a good pick there.
I wasn't comparing the players, I was comparing the act of taking a prospect DMan in the top 5, or, well in the top 2 in this case.

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01-05-2013, 08:44 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Joe Nieuwendyk for Jarome Iginla

Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz

Yashin for Chara and Spezza.

Shall I go on?
#1 - Flames were looking to shed payroll with Cnd dollar struggling and Flames on decline

#2 - Comparing a Baseball trade deadline deal to NHL is not viable... Prospects are traded every July for vets going to teams in postseason races

Tigers needed pitching help that year and Alexander was great down stretch (Blew up in playoffs)

#3 - Milbury is an idiot and Wang is a fool

Also John Smoltz was not regarded as a top prospect (22nd round pick)

The Tigers had his potential as a bottom rotation guy ,, So again not comparable to what you are talking about

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01-06-2013, 06:09 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Shalunov is 1 month older then Mcneill/Danault

Please explain to me how that 1 month difference makes him a disappointment? And he was more noticeable then McNeill/Danault in Bronze medal game (Picked up an assist)
Big fan of Shalunov but like Hoss said he was a huge disappointment. His minutes were limited due to the boneheaded plays and penalties he took earlier in the tournament. His highsticking double minor in the dying minutes pushed the Slovakia game to OT and resulted in a 1 match ban. I would argue that his overall contribution to Russian team was a net negative and some pro-scouts on twitter said as much. This is the polar opposite of subway series where he scored clutch goals and was one of the go to guys for Russia.

I am hopeful that Shalunov will be alright in the long term, but this tournament did not showcase him in positive light.


Last edited by RedBaronIndian: 01-06-2013 at 06:16 AM.
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01-06-2013, 08:56 AM
  #194
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Shalunov was destroying the MHL numbers wise but when he stepped up in class to the VHL, his numbers have dropped dramatically. Huge concern to me that hes having difficulty moving up in class.

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01-06-2013, 11:01 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
#1 - Flames were looking to shed payroll with Cnd dollar struggling and Flames on decline
Doesnt take away from the fact that a prospect was traded for a player in his prime. Whatever excuses that come along with that fact doesnt trump one I could use which would be king of them all to any dedicated Hawk fan - [i]a trade was made to make them better[/b]. It works both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
#2 - Comparing a Baseball trade deadline deal to NHL is not viable... Prospects are traded every July for vets going to teams in postseason races
How so when in the NHL its also done year after year? You just cant seperate one sport thats built on a similar structure only because its a different sport when the end goal for both sports is the dame thing, winning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Tigers needed pitching help that year and Alexander was great down stretch (Blew up in playoffs)
He also had another good year before his arm blew up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
#3 - Milbury is an idiot and Wang is a fool
Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Also John Smoltz was not regarded as a top prospect (22nd round pick)
Which makes it all the better that the Hawks should do what they can to get a defenseman who has been reguarded as a franchise talent, amirte?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
The Tigers had his potential as a bottom rotation guy ,, So again not comparable to what you are talking about
Trading a prospect for a proven player?

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01-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #196
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Calgary wasnt a contending team when they traded Nieuwendyk and he was in a contract dispute with Calgary.

If we had a player who was demanding money we didnt want to give him AND we werent a contending team in the near future ..I would do it.

But none of those situations are present, so you don't.

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01-07-2013, 09:54 AM
  #197
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Here's a fun thing

I've seen lots of Finland fans saying TT was arguably their best forward throughout the entire tournament.

Today in Friedman's 30 Thoughts, he quotes a scout

28. Draftees who struggled: Teuvo Teravainen (Chicago). Had 12 points in six games, but "very unmotivated performance until tourney was already over."

You can choose who you want to believe.

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01-07-2013, 10:26 AM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Here's a fun thing

I've seen lots of Finland fans saying TT was arguably their best forward throughout the entire tournament.

Today in Friedman's 30 Thoughts, he quotes a scout

28. Draftees who struggled: Teuvo Teravainen (Chicago). Had 12 points in six games, but "very unmotivated performance until tourney was already over."

You can choose who you want to believe.
The fact that TT had 11 points in 6 games - not 12 - makes me question how much he's paying attention when he can't even get a stat that he quotes correct.

Unfortunately, the NHL channel chose to air hundreds of USA and Canada game reruns rather than show games involving Finland and most of the other teams, so I didn't have the opportunity to actually see TT play other than highlights. One thing that seems appearent though is that TT is one of those effortless skaters that makes it seem like he's not hustling when he actually is - maybe Friedman didn't notice.

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01-07-2013, 10:39 AM
  #199
RedBaronIndian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Here's a fun thing

I've seen lots of Finland fans saying TT was arguably their best forward throughout the entire tournament.

Today in Friedman's 30 Thoughts, he quotes a scout

28. Draftees who struggled: Teuvo Teravainen (Chicago). Had 12 points in six games, but "very unmotivated performance until tourney was already over."

You can choose who you want to believe.
I watched all of Finland's games because they were rare day time games for me. He started on the third line (due to the Finnish coach wanting to spread the scoring) with 2 meh linemates in the warm up games whom TT had to carry and he did do that admirably. Injury to one of the Finnish forwards pushed him to the second line with Barkov. Barkov and TT clicked really well and TT was very good especially on the PP(very Karlsson like, he may have learned a thing or two from him at Jokerit).

I think his best game was against Switzerland (which was a do or die game) where the Finns dug themselves a bit of a hole. He scored 2nd and 3rd goals on PP where he got his shot through traffic both times. We finally may have someone competent enough to play the point on PP and not shoot a million miles wide of the net.

He had an average game against Sweden and was on fire in the relegation round against Germany and Slovakia. IMO, He would definitely be in contention for Finnish forward of the tournament. I think highly of Friedman and generally respect his views, but in this instance he is plain wrong and his opinion may have been clouded by poor showing of the Finnish team in the tournament.

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01-07-2013, 10:45 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaronIndian View Post
I watched all of Finland's games because they were rare day time games for me. He started on the third line (due to the Finnish coach wanting to spread the scoring) with 2 meh linemates in the warm up games whom TT had to carry and he did do that admirably. Injury to one of the Finnish forwards pushed him to the second line with Barkov. Barkov and TT clicked really well and TT was very good especially on the PP(very Karlsson like, he may have learned a thing or two from him at Jokerit).

I think his best game was against Switzerland (which was a do or die game) where the Finns dug themselves a bit of a hole. He scored 2nd and 3rd goals on PP where he got his shot through traffic both times. We finally may have someone competent enough to play the point on PP and not shoot a million miles wide of the net.

He had an average game against Sweden and was on fire in the relegation round against Germany and Slovakia. IMO, He would definitely be in contention for Finnish forward of the tournament. I think highly of Friedman and generally respect his views, but in this instance he is plain wrong and his opinion may have been clouded by poor showing of the Finnish team in the tournament.
To be fair to Friedman, that was not his impression but rather the impression relayed to him by his source.

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