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Luongo: The Neverending Story

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Old
01-05-2013, 06:31 PM
  #251
racerjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Sorry, I still don't understand. Current CBA states that players don't get any salary after they retire and there has been absolutely zero indications that would be different in the next CBA.

So where does that 10M come from?
If you don't get it, I can not help. It was just suppose to be a absolute worst case, and IF it stays the same, that worst case is even better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I think it's quite obvious that VAN can't hold onto Luongo indefinitely. They can definitely hold onto Luongo _this_year_. Beyond that, no way. But that doesn't translate to dumping him, and it definitely doesn't mean they have to dump him to TOR.


Oh, and Kipper's source says NHL agreed to 63m. Guess that discussion was kinda pointless lol. I think it will end up at around 63.5 or 64m, and then we can drop the puck.
Just wanted to point out we could absolutely keep both goalies, it just probably is not smart, but being able to gives us some leverage... probably not a lot.

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01-05-2013, 06:40 PM
  #252
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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so based on what the speculated return for louongo is that being bozak and kadri I have come up with a prospal doubt canuck fans will like it but this is based on the reported return for louongo.

bozak
kadri
macarthur

for

louongo
booth

the question is macarthur for booth fair? I think the two are close but at 2012 pounds booth brings size we need

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Old
01-05-2013, 06:42 PM
  #253
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
so based on what the speculated return for louongo is that being bozak and kadri I have come up with a prospal doubt canuck fans will like it but this is based on the reported return for louongo.

bozak
kadri
macarthur

for

louongo
booth

the question is macarthur for booth fair? I think the two are close but at 2012 pounds booth brings size we need
Booth for Macarthur is absolutely not fair. We need size in our lineup as much as anyone, and Macarthur's an upcoming UFA. I wouldn't do that even if you dropped Booth from the deal entirely.

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01-05-2013, 07:10 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Malhotra and Raymond are walking anyways IMO. So they're good.


Edit: Assuming Ballard is jettisoned.


Edit 2: That's next year that is. This year they're safe of course.
If the cap roll back is next year....awesome anyway. Even with it happening this year, we're ok.

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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Yay! We're not totally out to lunch on either side! Hurray! *Kermit the Frog hands!!!*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Agreed. However, that is my assessment. Burke's assessment could be completely different.

If Burke believes that Van Reimsdyk can replace Lupul and/or that he can acquire the key pieces he needs via other methods, he could absolutely make Lupul available. It could change very quickly and all of a sudden Luongo makes a ton more sense.

I just don't see it as likely but I'm a bit pessimistic.

Guess we'll find out if the season ever starts up.
Again, seeing eye to eye it seems. Toronto can't afford Luongo without creating another hole, and you, if not Burke, want to at least see if the alleged replacement can be counted on before destroying the forward ranks. Again, if JVR makes Lupul available, assuming around the deadline, his value has dropped sharply being on a 1 year term, that's my only real downside to hoping for that. We can reassess when and if that happens though

As for the season, today's news has me cautiously optimistic. I hope it's not bunk

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Old
01-05-2013, 07:22 PM
  #255
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Conversely, Toronto fans understand Canuck fans want value for their goalie, but many don't think they can realistically get it. And thus the debate continues.
That's a great point. My personal opinion from the start is I can't see the Canucks getting this A+ package of players, top prospects and 1st round picks for Luongo based on these reasons. It's obvious to any NHL fan that Luongo asked the Canucks for a trade and when that happens the team trading that specifc player they can't get what would be fair market value, just look at what Columbus got for Rick Nash. Now before someone say the Rangers gave up a 1st round pick for him, the one difference I see is he is a lot younger then Luongo and chances are it will be between 25th - 30th overall. With Toronto trading an unprotected 1st round pick there is a risk based on the past few years it could be a top 5 or top 10 pick. Finally Luongo's contract isn't the best when you look at the terms of what's left on it.

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01-05-2013, 07:33 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
That's a great point. My personal opinion from the start is I can't see the Canucks getting this A+ package of players, top prospects and 1st round picks for Luongo based on these reasons. It's obvious to any NHL fan that Luongo asked the Canucks for a trade and when that happens the team trading that specifc player they can't get what would be fair market value, just look at what Columbus got for Rick Nash. Now before someone say the Rangers gave up a 1st round pick for him, the one difference I see is he is a lot younger then Luongo and chances are it will be between 25th - 30th overall. With Toronto trading an unprotected 1st round pick there is a risk based on the past few years it could be a top 5 or top 10 pick. Finally Luongo's contract isn't the best when you look at the terms of what's left on it.
Lets!

Branson Dubinsky - Good young player who had a somewhat lackluster season after a promising year previously. Sound familiar? It should.

Artem Anisimov - Another decent young player who put up solid numbers

Tim Erixon - Solid prospect but expendable.

So...

Kulemin
Kadri/Bozak
Finn

Hey, look at how that worked out! And don't worry. I knocked off the first, you know, because Lu's older like you said. Only fair.

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01-05-2013, 07:36 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
That's a great point. My personal opinion from the start is I can't see the Canucks getting this A+ package of players, top prospects and 1st round picks for Luongo based on these reasons. It's obvious to any NHL fan that Luongo asked the Canucks for a trade and when that happens the team trading that specifc player they can't get what would be fair market value, just look at what Columbus got for Rick Nash. Now before someone say the Rangers gave up a 1st round pick for him, the one difference I see is he is a lot younger then Luongo and chances are it will be between 25th - 30th overall. With Toronto trading an unprotected 1st round pick there is a risk based on the past few years it could be a top 5 or top 10 pick. Finally Luongo's contract isn't the best when you look at the terms of what's left on it.
If we could get Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and late 1st most Van fans would be happy.

Problem is, what would an equivalent package be from Toronto?
- Kulemin, Bozak, Kadri, Biggs?

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Old
01-05-2013, 07:50 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Lets!

Branson Dubinsky - Good young player who had a somewhat lackluster season after a promising year previously. Sound familiar? It should.

Artem Anisimov - Another decent young player who put up solid numbers

Tim Erixon - Solid prospect but expendable.

So...

Kulemin
Kadri/Bozak
Finn

Hey, look at how that worked out! And don't worry. I knocked off the first, you know, because Lu's older like you said. Only fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian
If we could get Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and late 1st most Van fans would be happy.

Problem is, what would an equivalent package be from Toronto?
- Kulemin, Bozak, Kadri, Biggs?
What you forget is Scott Howson was asking for everyone's top young players. From the Rangers he wanted Derek Stepan, from the Sharks he wanted Logan Couture, he wanted Jeff Skinner from the Hurricanes and he wanted Jake Gardiner from the Maple Leafs. So in the end he never got the exact trade he wanted and said multiple times he would not trade Rick Nash until he did. Today the same thing is happening with Mike Gillis. I realize he wants the best deal possible for Luongo and has said he won't trade him until the right deal comes along, so we are seeing a pattern of what Scott Howson had previously said. Plus I will say again Rick Nash asked for a trade and Columbus didn't get fair market value for a player like him. Roberto Luongo asks for a trade and I can't see Vancouver getting fair market value based on that. He also said the Panthers would be his first choice, so why should Brian Burke give up anything major knowing that?

As for what's fair from Toronto I would include Bozak, Kadri, Franson and a conditional 1st round pick which Vancouver only gets if Toronto makes the Playoffs. If we don't then it turns into a 2nd round pick.

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Old
01-05-2013, 07:54 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
What you forget is Scott Howson was asking for everyone's top young players. From the Rangers he wanted Derek Stepan, from the Sharks he wanted Logan Couture, he wanted Jeff Skinner from the Hurricanes and he wanted Jake Gardiner from the Maple Leafs. So in the end he never got the exact trade he wanted and said multiple times he would not trade Rick Nash until he did. Today the same thing is happening with Mike Gillis. I realize he wants the best deal possible for Luongo and has said he won't trade him until the right deal comes along, so we are seeing a pattern of what Scott Howson had previously said. Plus I will say again Rick Nash asked for a trade and Columbus didn't get fair market value for a player like him. Roberto Luongo asks for a trade and I can't see Vancouver getting fair market value based on that. He also said the Panthers would be his first choice, so why should Brian Burke give up anything major knowing that?

As for what's fair from Toronto I would include Bozak, Kadri, Franson and a conditional 1st round pick which Vancouver only gets if Toronto makes the Playoffs. If we don't then it turns into a 2nd round pick.
Gillis also allegedly asked for Gardiner, Frattin, 5th ova and Bozak.

If you swap Franson to Finn you have a deal with me.

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01-05-2013, 07:55 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
What you forget is Scott Howson was asking for everyone's top young players. From the Rangers he wanted Derek Stepan, from the Sharks he wanted Logan Couture, he wanted Jeff Skinner from the Hurricanes and he wanted Jake Gardiner from the Maple Leafs. So in the end he never got the exact trade he wanted and said multiple times he would not trade Rick Nash until he did. Today the same thing is happening with Mike Gillis. I realize he wants the best deal possible for Luongo and has said he won't trade him until the right deal comes along, so we are seeing a pattern of what Scott Howson had previously said. Plus I will say again Rick Nash asked for a trade and Columbus didn't get fair market value for a player like him. Roberto Luongo asks for a trade and I can't see Vancouver getting fair market value based on that. He also said the Panthers would be his first choice, so why should Brian Burke give up anything major knowing that?

As for what's fair from Toronto I would include Bozak, Kadri, Franson and a conditional 1st round pick which Vancouver only gets if Toronto makes the Playoffs. If we don't then it turns into a 2nd round pick.
It's a good thing Gillis' original demands were Scheen or Gardiner, possibly a plus on the former. Thus, what I posted would be a downgrade almost identical to what happened with Columbus.

Let's face it, mate. That was a terrible parallel you attempted to make. Regardless, you offer neither addresses our needs nor does it make sense for Toronto. Your center depth would be abysmal shipping out both Bozak and Kadri. I'll stand by what I posted, especially as it would be less than what Nash good, both in player value and actual amount.

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Old
01-05-2013, 08:04 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Gillis also allegedly asked for Gardiner, Frattin, 5th ova and Bozak.
That was confirmed by Damien Cox of the Toronto Star.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...st-not-yet-cox

Quote:
At the draft, reports indicated Vancouver asked for centre Tyler Bozak, defenceman Jake Gardiner, a first-round pick and winger Matt Frattin in exchange for the 33-year-old Luongo. The Leafs had no interest in paying that kind of price, largely because there is no significant market for the services of the veteran goaltender.

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01-05-2013, 08:07 PM
  #262
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It's a good thing Gillis' original demands were Scheen or Gardiner, possibly a plus on the former. Thus, what I posted would be a downgrade almost identical to what happened with Columbus.
Mike Gillis never wanted Luke Schenn. At the trade deadline when Vancouver traded Cody Hodgson for Zack Kassian I remember Bob McKenzie said he heard from an Eastern Conference General Manager that Hodgson was not avaialble. It turned out McKenzie was referring to Brian Burke. Now maybe he didn't want to trade Hodgson to Toronto, however if Gillis wanted Luke Schenn for Luongo why didn't he get him at the trade deadline when he had a chance?

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Old
01-05-2013, 09:41 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Mike Gillis never wanted Luke Schenn. At the trade deadline when Vancouver traded Cody Hodgson for Zack Kassian I remember Bob McKenzie said he heard from an Eastern Conference General Manager that Hodgson was not avaialble. It turned out McKenzie was referring to Brian Burke. Now maybe he didn't want to trade Hodgson to Toronto, however if Gillis wanted Luke Schenn for Luongo why didn't he get him at the trade deadline when he had a chance?
The report I heard has the Luongo portion backwards. Where Burke offered Schenn for Luongo, Gillis said no, and countered with the Bozak, Frattin, 5 OA, Gardiner. Just to put some perspective on that side of it.

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01-05-2013, 11:10 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
The report I heard has the Luongo portion backwards. Where Burke offered Schenn for Luongo, Gillis said no, and countered with the Bozak, Frattin, 5 OA, Gardiner. Just to put some perspective on that side of it.
But I still think he has a point, Gillis never would have wanted Schenn in a deal for Luongo.

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01-05-2013, 11:20 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
That was confirmed by Damien Cox of the Toronto Star.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...st-not-yet-cox
LOLOL

Wtf. Why haven't I heard of this? That's a ****ing joke.

Hahahhahahaha

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:30 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
LOLOL

Wtf. Why haven't I heard of this? That's a ****ing joke.

Hahahhahahaha
It's no less ridiculous then you guys asking luongo for komi and a 3rd

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:45 PM
  #267
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LOLOL

Wtf. Why haven't I heard of this? That's a ****ing joke.

Hahahhahahaha
And when people say "If he had value he would have been traded..." Well, that's why. Our GM was asking for a king's ransom before the CBA expired. Perhaps he's mellowed and will now settle for just one of Gardiner or Rielly.

But seriously, when Canucks fans ask for what we perceive to be fair value, it's because we know Gillis won't let Luongo go unless it makes us significantly better.

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01-06-2013, 12:01 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
LOLOL

Wtf. Why haven't I heard of this? That's a ****ing joke.

Hahahhahahaha
This has been known for a LONG time.... the fact that its news to you shows how annoying this thread can be. You can get all the facts straightened out about certain things & someone can come in here & undo all that work because they haven't been paying attention to the process & all the old ideals are somehow re-established.

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01-06-2013, 02:31 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
This has been known for a LONG time.... the fact that its news to you shows how annoying this thread can be. You can get all the facts straightened out about certain things & someone can come in here & undo all that work because they haven't been paying attention to the process & all the old ideals are somehow re-established.
People have things to do and aren't surfing these threads constantly. It's actually quite easy to miss things with the pace of these threads.

Nobodies undoing anything. Either help them out by providing information, or ignore them. Simple.

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01-06-2013, 03:14 AM
  #270
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
so based on what the speculated return for louongo is that being bozak and kadri I have come up with a prospal doubt canuck fans will like it but this is based on the reported return for louongo.

bozak
kadri
macarthur

for

louongo
booth

the question is macarthur for booth fair? I think the two are close but at 2012 pounds booth brings size we need
He's not that heavy, but no way we do this.

Booth is better than McArthur IMO and either way McArthur is a pending UFA is he not? As is Bozak so Kadri is the only one that brings significant value since we probably wouldn't be able to sign both McArthur and Bozak and hope to keep Edler with the cap falling, and Kadri for Luongo isn't enough IMO let alone Kadri for Luongo and Booth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
As for what's fair from Toronto I would include Bozak, Kadri, Franson and a conditional 1st round pick which Vancouver only gets if Toronto makes the Playoffs. If we don't then it turns into a 2nd round pick.
Not bad, and the 1st/2nd conditional pick idea is something I had thought of aswell, works out for the leafs because if Luongo doesn't take you to the playoffs for whatever reason the price is reduced (Since him making you a playoff team is the big sell on your end)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Gillis also allegedly asked for Gardiner, Frattin, 5th ova and Bozak.

If you swap Franson to Finn you have a deal with me.
Wow that's rediculous, Gardiner isn't happening let alone the 5th ovr.

I'm in the same boat as you though, swap Franson for Finn since we need prospects and I'm on board.


Bozak
Finn
Kadri
Conditional 1st


Luongo
?

We honestly don't even need Bozak in the deal IMO cause I don't know if we would be able to re-sign him or even want to with JS, ZK and then Kadri coming up but it would be a nice rental option, perhaps we could even add a tad more on our side (? signifies possible minor additions).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Mike Gillis never wanted Luke Schenn. At the trade deadline when Vancouver traded Cody Hodgson for Zack Kassian I remember Bob McKenzie said he heard from an Eastern Conference General Manager that Hodgson was not avaialble. It turned out McKenzie was referring to Brian Burke. Now maybe he didn't want to trade Hodgson to Toronto, however if Gillis wanted Luke Schenn for Luongo why didn't he get him at the trade deadline when he had a chance?
I don't think MG ever wanted Schenn, i heard the report about Schenn too and was pretty certain you guys offered it to us.

And can you confirm that the mystery team that wanted Coho was indeed Toronto? Or is it just your speculation, cause I have always been interested to find out. Do you have a source?

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01-06-2013, 03:33 AM
  #271
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I brought up the Nash trade in the Canucks forum as well. The only reason I brought it up was to show what a GM wants for a player but unfortunately unable to obtain because of player salary/contract and their NTC...in Luongo's case you can add age to the negative portion as well.

I hope if Burke does acquire Luongo, it's not at the expense of trading away Kadri. He is a very promising player.

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01-06-2013, 04:15 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
If you don't get it, I can not help. It was just suppose to be a absolute worst case, and IF it stays the same, that worst case is even better.
Ok, I guess there's no harm there even though Canucks owing money Luongo after he retires has no factual basis.

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01-06-2013, 04:20 AM
  #273
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And now we wait.....

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01-06-2013, 04:23 AM
  #274
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And now we wait.....
we'll keep waiting till summer imo. Gillis is going to keep both horses especially in a condensed schedule like this

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01-06-2013, 04:27 AM
  #275
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See if John Shannon was right...

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