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Teravainen vs Gaudreau

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:24 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
They are both very skilled players, but ill wait till the WJC hype dies down before debating over potential. Even before the WJC I didnt hear many flames fans saying JG had great 1st line potential, they were content with a 2nd line skilled player but now after a good 7 game stretch hes considered a top 10 prospect. Plenty of players have good WJC but never play to that level again
Flames fans have been hyping Gaudreau since his freshman season for BC. There are some that have said his potential is higher then Sven's, not something I necessarily agree with but this was all before the tournament.

I think some people are criminally underrating Gaudreau's play outside the WJC. He is 1.6 ppg as a sophomore in the NCAA which is very, very good considering the NCAA is a lower scoring league. He is considered to be leading the race for the Hobey Baker, which if you didn't know is given to the leagues top player. It is almost unheard of for sophomores to win this award.

Point to the matter, while the WJC is a sample size he has always been a dominant player but has only been recently hyped seeing as he played fantastic in a much more popular tournament. Some people can misinterpret the recent influx of hype as flavour of the week and a fluke, but that hype has been shared amongst flames fans for months so I would tend to disagree.

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01-05-2013, 04:26 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
I think a better comparsion would be JG vs. Kadri
would have to go with JG

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01-05-2013, 05:03 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Those same people would say TT>Yakupov
Yakupov was way more physically mature at draft but TT is catching him slowly. His stickhandling, passing, skating and slapper is already way better than Yakupov's and after he gets slightly more strength he will just fly through him like a g6.

Can you honestly say that Yakupov impressed you more in this wjc, or in last years where he was same age as TT is now? I'm pretty sure that you're forgetting the fact that Yakupov is nearly one year older than TT is.

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01-05-2013, 05:30 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leehh View Post
Yakupov was way more physically mature at draft but TT is catching him slowly. His stickhandling, passing, skating and slapper is already way better than Yakupov's and after he gets slightly more strength he will just fly through him like a g6.

Can you honestly say that Yakupov impressed you more in this wjc, or in last years where he was same age as TT is now? I'm pretty sure that you're forgetting the fact that Yakupov is nearly one year older than TT is.
The bolded are arugable at best, I do believe Teravainen is the better playmaker of the two, but Teravainen's skating is not better than Yakupov's, especially in a straight line. Teravainen's a great young player and may end up being as good or better than Yakupov (personally, I'm not Yak's biggest fan), but at this point you'd have to say Yakupov has a clear edge on TT.

As to this thread, Teravainen easily over JG.

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01-05-2013, 05:46 PM
  #30
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Who do I want as an NHL prospect? Teravainen...easy choice for me.

BUT I do think that Gaudreau is the better player right now and at this level. I have watched him a ton at BC and he was better than Kreider(a Junior) even though he was only a freshman. He has incredible skill and a great knack for the net. But the NHL is a different beast entirely and a lot of small, skilled players aren't as effective because there is so little space to work. There are such big bodies and fast skaters that is makes it hard for the game to open up like at the CHL/NCAA level.

Even a guy like Patrick Kane struggled because of teams like St Louis and Nashville, holding and playing extremely defensive games. I am hoping the NHL will start to move away from that boring type of game and opens up some space for the smaller guys. And hey, that includes for TT who isn't Yao Ming himself. But I just feel like Gaudreau is so weak and so bad along the boards that he might not find a place in the NHL if it continues to move the way of St Louis/Nashville/Phoenix. TT has great hockey sense and can be a good two way player even if he isn't putting up 60+ points a year. I love what I see from him so far though.

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01-05-2013, 05:50 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Gaudreau is smarter player. higher upside and.better currently.

teuvo is safer but not as skilled.
Based on what? Teravainen's hockey sense was lauded as right up there with the best, if not the best, of his draft year. His offensive upside was put right up there with Yakupov and Galchenyuk and he's been playing great in Finland, playing against men.

Through the 4 round robin games, Teravainen had 3G, 1A, 4Pts; Gaudreau had 2G, 1A, 3Pts, with all of Gaudreau's points coming in the final round-robin game against Slovakia. Gaudreau was obviously great against the Czech Republic and Canada, but all of his points came in 3 games - with 2 of those being important games, mind you, but a small sample in a tournament that in it of itself is a small sample.

Teravainen > Gaudreau. It's not a slight on Gaudreau, but I don't see how anyone can pick Gaudreau over TT when you consider the size and the fact that Teravainen was great in this tournament himself, as an 18-year-old.

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01-05-2013, 05:57 PM
  #32
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TT is better by quite a margin. I love what Gaudreau brings to the table but make no mistake; size matters. I think you can argue which of them is more skilled, but I see TT as the more cerebral player too.

In terms of choosing who's more likely to be an impact player - there are very few impact players with Gaudreau's size, even if they are tremendously skilled. Even Ennis is 5' 9".

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01-05-2013, 06:02 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leehh View Post
Yakupov was way more physically mature at draft but TT is catching him slowly. His stickhandling, passing, skating and slapper is already way better than Yakupov's and after he gets slightly more strength he will just fly through him like a g6.

Can you honestly say that Yakupov impressed you more in this wjc, or in last years where he was same age as TT is now? I'm pretty sure that you're forgetting the fact that Yakupov is nearly one year older than TT is.
The crazy thing is that TT is almost an entire year younger than Yakupov even though they were in the same draft. Yakupov was born October 6th, 1993 while TT was born September 11th, 1994. That is like 340 days apart yet they were considered equal on a draft level. Teuvo is much closer to someone like Seth Jones who was born October 3rd, 1994...only 22 days apart.

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01-05-2013, 06:06 PM
  #34
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I just can never get excited over smaller prospects like Gaudreau and Grimaldi. Even guys Teravainen's size(5'10) are hard to predict whether or not they will transition to the NHL. I suppose it's possible Gaudreau could be the next St. Louis, but I would never, ever, ever bet on that.

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01-05-2013, 06:23 PM
  #35
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Terevainen

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01-05-2013, 06:33 PM
  #36
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I think TT is the safer pick. But if JG makes it, he'll play a more vital role for Cgy than TT will for Chi.

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01-05-2013, 07:22 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
How many players in the top 100 scorers are under 5'10? 3 or 4? StLouis is a pretty rare player. When you are that small you better be scoring because you aren't worth much else. At 5'6 its pretty rare you can score 15 goals and stay in the league. He better be able to put up 25+ or he never makes the NHL.
Who is 5'6? JG is 5'9

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01-05-2013, 07:31 PM
  #38
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Gaudreau had a great tourny, but small sample sizes dont sway my opinion
I'm still a little surprised when people say Johnny has played well in a small sample size here's what he earned his first year in the NCAA

Bill Flynn Trophy Hockey East Most Valuable Player 201112
NCAA Boston College Eagles Hockey East all-tournament team 201112
NCAA Boston College Eagles "Beanpot MVP" 2012 201112

Currently he's one of the favorites for the Hobey Baker this year second in pts per game to a guy 3 years older than him.

and then he was named to the WJC all-star team or whatever that is with a tournament leading 7 goals including a huge game against Canada...

To me it seems like the small sample size argument comes more from people only looking at his last 4 games than from Johnny only preforming in 4 games.

That said TT has shown skills that impressed a lot of people and scouts took him top 20 in his draft year thinking he would translate them to the next level.
In Johnny's case the questions will always be there no matter what he does (and what more can anyone expect from him?)

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01-05-2013, 07:33 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Who is 5'6? JG is 5'9
Boston College's roster lists him as 5'8"

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01-05-2013, 07:33 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leehh View Post
Yakupov was way more physically mature at draft but TT is catching him slowly. His stickhandling, passing, skating and slapper is already way better than Yakupov's and after he gets slightly more strength he will just fly through him like a g6.

Can you honestly say that Yakupov impressed you more in this wjc, or in last years where he was same age as TT is now? I'm pretty sure that you're forgetting the fact that Yakupov is nearly one year older than TT is.
I am not forgetting anything TT had a real good tournament but lets not over look the fact that Finland only had to play one power house team the rest weren't the best competition I mean he had 9 points versus Switzerland, Germany, Slovakia that isn't that stiff of competition. Meanwhile Russia played Canada twice, Sweden, Usa. I would say I was more impressed with Yakupov then TT.

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01-05-2013, 07:34 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Who is 5'6? JG is 5'9
Not even close. He's 5'6 max.

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01-05-2013, 07:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dss97 View Post
Not even close. He's 5'6 max.
Not as measured at Calgary's prospect camp and he was measured as 5'8 at Boston last year.

From Noori

Quote:


If Gibson is 6-3, then Gaudreau isn't that small.


Last edited by TheHudlinator: 01-05-2013 at 07:53 PM.
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01-05-2013, 07:37 PM
  #43
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Quite right. Johnny Hockey is something else. Teravainen is great prospect but this kid is in a league of his own. Such a special player.

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01-05-2013, 07:43 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SaintAnton View Post
I'm still a little surprised when people say Johnny has played well in a small sample size here's what he earned his first year in the NCAA

Bill Flynn Trophy – Hockey East Most Valuable Player 2011–12
NCAA Boston College Eagles Hockey East all-tournament team 2011–12
NCAA Boston College Eagles "Beanpot MVP" 2012 2011–12

Currently he's one of the favorites for the Hobey Baker this year second in pts per game to a guy 3 years older than him.

and then he was named to the WJC all-star team or whatever that is with a tournament leading 7 goals including a huge game against Canada...

To me it seems like the small sample size argument comes more from people only looking at his last 4 games than from Johnny only preforming in 4 games.

That said TT has shown skills that impressed a lot of people and scouts took him top 20 in his draft year thinking he would translate them to the next level.
In Johnny's case the questions will always be there no matter what he does (and what more can anyone expect from him?)
Jack Connolly
2012 Hobey Baker winner
5'8 170

2011: 18g 41a 59p
2012: 20g 40a 60p

2012: Hobey Baker award
2012: Lowe's Senior CLASS award
2012 Premier Player of College Hockey
2010 All American 2nd team selection
2011 All American 1st team selection
2012 All American 1st team selection
2012 WCHA Player of the Year
2012 WCHA 1st team selection

Currently playing in the SEL

Andy Miele
2011 Hobey Baker winner
5'8 175

2011: 44p
2012: 71p

CCHA Player of the Year (2010–11)
CCHA All-CCHA First Team (2010–11)
CCHA tournament MVP (2010–11)
Hobey Baker Award winner (2011)
USA Hockey's college player of the year

25 points in 33 games currently in the AHL


Both similar sizes, point totals and awards, does college success always equal future success?

I fully expect him to be in the NHL, but to say he will be a 1st line player based on the WJC is where the small sample size argument comes from

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01-05-2013, 07:45 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I am not forgetting anything TT had a real good tournament but lets not over look the fact that Finland only had to play one power house team the rest weren't the best competition I mean he had 9 points versus Switzerland, Germany, Slovakia that isn't that stiff of competition. Meanwhile Russia played Canada twice, Sweden, Usa. I would say I was more impressed with Yakupov then TT.
Nail Yakupov 7 games, 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points, +2, 20 shots
Teuvo Teravainen 6 games, 5 goals, 6 assists, 11 points, +6, 33 shots

Not sure how you can say Yakupov was more impressive when he is a year older and his stats aren't that close even with an extra game. Sure, it isn't as impressive what Teravainen did because of the competition but he could only play who was in front of him. Yakupov is a better prospect but I didn't leave more impressed with him at all.

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01-05-2013, 07:48 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Jack Connolly
2012 Hobey Baker winner
5'8 170

2011: 18g 41a 59p
2012: 20g 40a 60p

2012: Hobey Baker award
2012: Lowe's Senior CLASS award
2012 Premier Player of College Hockey
2010 All American 2nd team selection
2011 All American 1st team selection
2012 All American 1st team selection
2012 WCHA Player of the Year
2012 WCHA 1st team selection

Currently playing in the SEL

Andy Miele
2011 Hobey Baker winner
5'8 175

2011: 44p
2012: 71p

CCHA Player of the Year (201011)
CCHA All-CCHA First Team (201011)
CCHA tournament MVP (201011)
Hobey Baker Award winner (2011)
USA Hockey's college player of the year

25 points in 33 games currently in the AHL


Both similar sizes, point totals and awards, does college success always equal future success?
Connolly wasn't a ppg in the NCAA until he was 20 Mielle wasn't a ppg until he was 21 but JG was at 18. Both are listed as shorter than JG. JG already has as good a career ppg in the NCAA as both even with there 60+ season not a good comparison.

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01-05-2013, 07:50 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Nail Yakupov 7 games, 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points, +2, 20 shots
Teuvo Teravainen 6 games, 5 goals, 6 assists, 11 points, +6, 33 shots

Not sure how you can say Yakupov was more impressive when he is a year older and his stats aren't that close even with an extra game. Sure, it isn't as impressive what Teravainen did because of the competition but he could only play who was in front of him. Yakupov is a better prospect but I didn't leave more impressed with him at all.
I said I was more impressed with his game not his stats TT only played against one top 4 team where Yakupov played against the other 3 teams 4 times, TT had a very easy schedule in comparison.

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01-05-2013, 07:53 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I am not forgetting anything TT had a real good tournament but lets not over look the fact that Finland only had to play one power house team the rest weren't the best competition I mean he had 9 points versus Switzerland, Germany, Slovakia that isn't that stiff of competition. Meanwhile Russia played Canada twice, Sweden, Usa. I would say I was more impressed with Yakupov then TT.
Two of the three weakest teams in the tournament played in the Canada/US pool; Slovakia and Germany. The only weak team in Finland's pool was Latvia. The Swiss give everyone trouble, Sweden's obviously the power-house you pointed out and the Czech's aren't push-overs. As to the bolded: Teravainen and Gaudreau each had strong games versus the Slovak's (JG 2G, 3Pts/TT 2G, 4Pts), but Teravainen had 3 points versus Germany whereas JG had no points.. and the relegation round is where the German's try their hardest to avoid relegation. And, again, this is all with Teravainen being a year younger.

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01-05-2013, 07:55 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Jack Connolly
2012 Hobey Baker winner
5'8 170

2011: 18g 41a 59p
2012: 20g 40a 60p

2012: Hobey Baker award
2012: Lowe's Senior CLASS award
2012 Premier Player of College Hockey
2010 All American 2nd team selection
2011 All American 1st team selection
2012 All American 1st team selection
2012 WCHA Player of the Year
2012 WCHA 1st team selection

Currently playing in the SEL

Andy Miele
2011 Hobey Baker winner
5'8 175

2011: 44p
2012: 71p

CCHA Player of the Year (201011)
CCHA All-CCHA First Team (201011)
CCHA tournament MVP (201011)
Hobey Baker Award winner (2011)
USA Hockey's college player of the year

25 points in 33 games currently in the AHL


Both similar sizes, point totals and awards, does college success always equal NHL success?
My point wasn't that anything Gaudreau's done/won means suddenly he's a sure fire NHLer I'm well aware that for every Paul Kariya there are 5+ "Marty Sertich"s

It's the rep he seem to be getting as a streaky or limited viewing only player when he's been playing at a very high level consistently. He's doing everything you can ask of him and showing he's a legitimate prospect rather than a long-shot 4th round throw away pick.

He'll always have more questions about the next level than TT until he produces in the NHL (if that ever happens). But right now he is doing everything that can be asked of him.

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01-05-2013, 07:57 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Connolly wasn't a ppg in the NCAA until he was 20 Mielle wasn't a ppg until he was 21 but JG was at 18. Both are listed as shorter than JG. JG already has as good a career ppg in the NCAA as both even with there 60+ season not a good comparison.
The heights are from Wikipedia and hockey db. On both JG is listed as 5'6, also to lazy to search cases exactly like JG. The main point was that small skilled forwards that did well and won awards in NCAA dont always transition extremely well

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