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Everything Canada (goaltending, coaching, future)

View Poll Results: ....
Yes 83 55.70%
No 41 27.52%
Maybe/Depends on the situation 25 16.78%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-05-2013, 10:16 PM
  #576
razor ray
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Canada has had 55% of the NHL's population for about 15 years ever since it dipped below 60%. It hasn't really changed recently. The top end players are all at least half Canadian. The year end all-stars, the award winners, the scoring leaders, etc. they are all about half Canadian still. I don't know what travesty fell on Canada in 2013 because they were a disgrace to our country but there is so much talent to choose from in Canada and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. We just saw Canada win 5 gold in a row, lose two tight gold medal games and lose a couple of semifinals. Canada won a medal at the WJC 14 years in a row which will never be touched. The players from 2005 are still only 27 years old at best, plus a whole slew of others since then. Canada is doing fine although I'd sleep better at night if we won those golds recently. 2030 is 17 years away. I assume we'll still have 50% of the NHL talent by then as well.
Posts like this show why Hockey Canada/Canada Hockey fans and arrogance go perfectly together. 14 WJC in a row will likely never be beat but we are talking about the future not the past which several Canadian fans, like yourself, live in. USA and Europe will likely make up over 50% of the NHL in 15 Years with Canada being in the high 40s. Kids in Canada have more options for sports now and the numbers have been flat for awhile while growing in other places. Canada will still have more players in the NHL but it will go down.

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Old
01-05-2013, 10:20 PM
  #577
Royal Canuck
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Originally Posted by Landeskog Rocks View Post
Do they now? Do you really think NHL would been where it is today without Europeans. Retard thread!
you could easily replace a european player in the NHL with another Canadian playing overseas.

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01-05-2013, 10:20 PM
  #578
Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by Goose View Post
I'm glad to see the taunting afterwards, that should inspire for next year.

Too bad they couldn't reach over and connect with one of their heads, but it should act as decent bulletin board material next time around.
This is exactly the kind of thing that is lacking from Team Canada.

No more chicken nuggets and heinz ketchup being flown across the atlantic.

We need hostility, aggression, and animalistic brutality.

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01-05-2013, 10:21 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by razor ray View Post
Posts like this show why Hockey Canada/Canada Hockey fans and arrogance go perfectly together. 14 WJC in a row will likely never be beat but we are talking about the future not the past which several Canadian fans, like yourself, live in. USA and Europe will likely make up over 50% of the NHL in 15 Years with Canada being in the high 40s. Kids in Canada have more options for sports now and the numbers have been flat for awhile while growing in other places. Canada will still have more players in the NHL but it will go down.
It sounds like you agree then, 1 country will have about half the NHLers and the rest of the world will have the other half. This isn't Canada against the world is it?

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01-05-2013, 10:25 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
They dont even have the best players now. By 2030 most of the league will be American.
Just a quick look, and there are lots of other factors, but 50% of the top 20 scorers were CDN last year. It was the same the year before.


Man did Don Cherry do his job. He's incited some Canada hate, too much CDN nationalism and a slew of random predictions of Canada's soon to be here demise.

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01-05-2013, 10:30 PM
  #581
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Yes

Look over in North America, Europe and Asia... If there is hockey being played, coached, taught or evolved a Canadian is some how involved. No country loves a sport as much as Canada loves its hockey.

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01-05-2013, 10:30 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
They didn't even get bronze and people assume they are currently the best.
It was a teenage tournament. Come on man, some of you are trying way too hard. Everyone knows the IIHF rankings are only ones that count.

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01-05-2013, 10:43 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by crunchyblack View Post
The US has like 32749234793274 times the population of Canada. Just by that fact alone, if the popularity of Hockey keeps increasing in the States, there will be no way anyone can keep up with the USA in 2030.

Edit: Cashville basically said the same thing above.
That's it.

If the game keep growing at the grass roots level in the U.S., they should be the dominant hockey nation by then.

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01-05-2013, 10:44 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
It was a teenage tournament. Come on man, some of you are trying way too hard. Everyone knows the IIHF rankings are only ones that count.
Yet it's of massive importance when Canada wins. Funny how that works.

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01-05-2013, 10:46 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
you could easily replace a european player in the NHL with another Canadian playing overseas.
So true. I sure hope Ken Holland gets rid of Datsyuk and signs a Canadian currently playing in Denmark.

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Old
01-05-2013, 10:58 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post

And as for the cultural comment, Americans DO NOT treat their athletes who play MANLY games like FOOTBALL the same way as Canadians treat their hockey players. This is a unique maternal cultural symbol that is unique to Canada.
The Steubenville approach?

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01-05-2013, 11:19 PM
  #587
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Seemed to me that this team never got an identity or direction. Seemed like Sprott left it up to the players to be leaders and never established his firm direction over the team. May have been intimated by having established stars like RNH and Hamilton on the team.

Seemed like roles and positioning were not clearly defined. Too much time was wasted deciding on who would play 6th and 7th D-man positions, 4th line forwards and back up goalie. (and then this disregarded in terms of who they choose since guys who played better were cut anyways). time could have been spend in establishing set units and sticking with them.

Also selection process itself deserves criticism. Everyone knew Reilly and Murphy had defensive issues and you could probably not go with both or possibly either of these players. Ultimately player like Wetherspoon looked better and team might have looked more for people who could handle things in their own end. Almost like they had the mindset they were going to run teams out rink with their offensive prowess rather than building a sound system from the goal out.

Team Canada has won in the past through sound defense and grinding the other team down. Goals eventually came not from spectacular offense but from breaking other teams down and banging in loose pucks. This team looked like they could just rely on their offense skills rather than getting into a gritty game and relying on their positioning. In the end their defensive positioning in the mid ice and defensive end were their undoing.

Team needs a coach who knows what he wants and gets his team to play it rather than stoking the egos of established stars and letting them play pond hockey. Sutters, like some mentioned, fit that mold.

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01-05-2013, 11:24 PM
  #588
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Yeah why did they just take that taunting? Should've went over the boards and went after them and taught them a lesson. Atleast get'em as they go by with a stick to their heads.

I'm sure they wouldn't do anything after that. Plus, for a lot of these guys they'll never play in the WJC again, nothing to lose. They just took it though, just like they did all tournament. They metaphorically just pulled down their pants and put their ***** in the air all tournament long.

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01-05-2013, 11:27 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Seemed to me that this team never got an identity or direction. Seemed like Sprott left it up to the players to be leaders and never established his firm direction over the team. May have been intimated by having established stars like RNH and Hamilton on the team.
?????????????????????????????????????

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:30 PM
  #590
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Bold: Right, that was his mistake and if he had given a speech, it may have yielded a better outcome. Obviously we have no way of knowing but atleast to him (and also to a lot of Canadian fans) it was in the realm of possibility.

If you are thinking in basic literal terms, then you're right, a coach is not responsible for how a player plays on the ice. But if you factor in the choice of players, the mode of preparation, the assigned lineups and d pairings, then its easy to see that a coach has a lot to do with the success of the team.

One NHL coach (I prefer him to remain nameless, but if you prefer to know the name I will tell it to you along with the link in the response) said as a coaching staff, they have to take responsibility because they didn't prepare the hockey club to go out and compete. Whether he deserves it or not, Hockey Canada and Spott know that he must take a huge share of the responsibility, especially with the talent he had in his possession. You can't possibly believe Hockey Canada will hire him next year.

As for putting the two top offensive dmen on during OT, what about during the game? He had them together for every game in the tourney. Why would you have that same risk and reward mentality all through the tournament? I'll agree that we cannot expect any better resultfrom a Harrington defensive partner. But it would be much less of a gamble logically and at least the pairing wouldn't look like an accident waiting to happen, which inevitably it ended up being. This is an elite competition and Spott should of had someone to defend the net at an elite level at all times. Because Spott never considered that, the defence was left exposed, to the Russians.
I'm a firm believer that a hockey coach is the least important on-field manager in the five major western team sports (Hockey, Association football, Gridiron Football, baseball, basketball). They set up plays but they're more general systems which depend mostly on the players. They're primary job is to direct the players, but I don't believe they have much effect on how a team performs on ice. It's one of the reasons coaches have such trouble getting into the Hall of Fame.

Which brings me to the point, the only way I see a coach negatively affecting a game is not understand how a certain game is played (Playing a run and gun offense against a team that shuts that down, playing an outdated defensive system), royally screwing up matchups and rampant bench minors. Otherwise, they can do a below-average job but I don't see how they can affect a game.

Taking responsability doesn't mean you are at fault. Many coaches will take responsability for a teams failures to get the pressure of their players.

Anyways, risk and reward shouldn't be limited to one period, though it didn't exact hit the jackpot I can only remember one goal where it this pairings fault, this last goal.

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01-05-2013, 11:34 PM
  #591
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I'd make the argument that every best on best tournament save for maybe the Czechs in 98 or the soviets in 81 we've always had the best team on paper. 2014 will be no different

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01-05-2013, 11:37 PM
  #592
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Yet it's of massive importance when Canada wins. Funny how that works.
I was kidding, nobody cares. So serious.

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01-06-2013, 12:04 AM
  #593
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China will be best.

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01-06-2013, 12:08 AM
  #594
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Originally Posted by Cashville View Post
Canada will still have the highest proportion of NHLers to national population. US hockey awareness is gaining and its demographic advantage is too large. Eventually the US will likely have the most NHLers and likely the best national team at some point, whether that is 2030 or 2050 I have no idea. I don't think that's a knock on Canada at all; just a numbers game imo.
The numbers don't really work like that. It won't keep going up, eventually it'll plateau, look at the other three big American sports, only football is domianted by Americans, the other two are increasingly more diverse (30 years ago there was probably only MLB players from 3 or 4 countries, now they've got roughly the same amount as the NHL has, the league is about 70% American and it's dwindling every year).

I know a majority is only 50+ percent but I think that's highly unlikely. For the US to get over 50%, they would need to more than double their current NHLers, and unlike they have in the past they'll take those numbers from Canada, and despite Canada's struggles in minor hockey lately but unless something catastrophic, the US won't get that for a very long time. You've got to assume unless hockey losses popularity immensely, Canada will always have at least 30% of the NHL, and I have a hard time believing they'll drop much farther from where they are now as the percetange has stayed pretty firm for a while. The Euro population of NHLers seems to be rebounding as well.

If all things go well, the percentage of Candian players won't drop by more than 5%, but I can't see it dropping below 40% by 2030. The US is producing elite talent at the level of Finland who's had a really rough time with elite skaters over the past 10 years.

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01-06-2013, 12:13 AM
  #595
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Amusing seeing Pat Quinn's name in this thread, considering he was 5 seconds away from being tarred & feathered here

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01-06-2013, 12:16 AM
  #596
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I am surprised at the 'no' votes.

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01-06-2013, 12:16 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
Amusing seeing Pat Quinn's name in this thread, considering he was 5 seconds away from being tarred & feathered here
Amusing that you find importance in what almost happened rather then what really ended up happening.

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01-06-2013, 12:20 AM
  #598
Random Bruins Fan
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Originally Posted by ViD View Post
By 2030, Canada will be # 3 in the world right behind Russia and USA
Why Russia? They rarely ever win a best on best tournament and are 0-3 in summit series.

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01-06-2013, 12:37 AM
  #599
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Amusing that you find importance in what almost happened rather then what really ended up happening.
Eberle scores, Quinn's a genius. Eberle doesn't score, Quinn's a bum.

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01-06-2013, 12:44 AM
  #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
They dont even have the best players now. By 2030 most of the league will be American.
Quote:
Originally Posted by razor ray View Post
Posts like this show why Hockey Canada/Canada Hockey fans and arrogance go perfectly together. 14 WJC in a row will likely never be beat but we are talking about the future not the past which several Canadian fans, like yourself, live in. USA and Europe will likely make up over 50% of the NHL in 15 Years with Canada being in the high 40s. Kids in Canada have more options for sports now and the numbers have been flat for awhile while growing in other places. Canada will still have more players in the NHL but it will go down.
I am reminded of an article a guy named Earl McRae wrote right after the 1996 World Cup of hockey. I can't find it for the life of me so I'll paraphrase. He said that Americans are soon going to be taking up spots in the NHL and the best stars in the world will be American. I remember him saying something like "And you'd better get used to it." He compared the soon to be dominance of American hockey like Pacman "gobbling up" the ghosts or something along those lines. That was 17 years ago. The OP is asking about 2030 which is 17 years from now. The best talent we have ever seen from America happened in the 1990s and for a stretch that core was good enough to win tournaments.

It was supposed to happen in 1980 after the Miracle on Ice. Then Gretzky going south was supposed to get every kid to play hockey. Then the World Cup in 1996. Oh, but if they won Gold in 2002 on home ice we REALLY would have seen a spike.

Well, we're still waiting. I don't think I have seen such a low amount of elite Americans in the NHL since the early 1980s. Granted the Americans won the Gold in the WJC the other day and there are some blue chippers but if the best American in the world is Zach Parise then where is this dominance coming from that we are supposed to see?

Russia has had better eras than this one. Finland has been about the same for 20 years. Same with the Czechs. Same with Sweden for that matter. The first European to go 1st overall in the draft was Sundin in 1989. We've seen high Euro draft picks for over 20 years now. I am not sure where this spike is supposed to be since Canada has comfortably had 55% of the NHL population for quite some time and it hasn't exactly been sinking.

17 years is not that long away. I don't see much changing.

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