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Gaborik

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01-05-2013, 05:17 PM
  #26
Zippy316
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So then I suppose Phoenix isn't exactly a good fit, then. But asking them to add significantly to one of the best defensive prospects in the league isn't really reasonable, I think.
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Gaborik for Gormley, 1st
Definitely not there value-wise. Like someone said, Korpikoski or Boedker would have to be involved which would make it more even. No team in their right mind would trade a first line player for a prospect and a first. When you do these deals, you need some sort of "for sure" piece. We saw it with the Richards trade in Simmonds, the Carter trade in Voracek, and the Kovalchuk trade with Oduya/Bergfors.

The Rangers might actually like a Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik deal better, as Boedker is much more valuable than a 1st round pick that might make it in 3 or 4 years.

Would Rangers fans do Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik?

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01-05-2013, 05:20 PM
  #27
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Absolutely false.
Definitely true....

Kreider is pretty overrated, at least to me. Good player, yes, but I think Rangers fans are going to be disappointed when he doesn't live up to their lofty expectations.

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01-05-2013, 05:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Setoguchi+Coyle+1st+Haula

For a signed Gaborik. As a Wild and a Rangers fan, I think this is fair value, just as long as Gaborik gets signed long-term. I wouldn't want to get burned by Gaborik leaving again.

And for everyone making proposals, remember that Glen Sather is our GM. You have to account for this by making your proposals overpayment towards the Rangers.
Deal.

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01-05-2013, 05:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
How so?

Gormley is currently outscoring Kreider in the AHL in fewer games...as a defenseman.
True, however I think Kreider's proven more with his past pedigree.

You mentioned that they wouldn't include Kreider in a deal for Nash, however at that point, Kreider's value was sky high. He was PPG in college and did really well in the playoffs. At that point in time Kreider's value > Gormley's.

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Nash is younger and signed for longer than Gaborik.
Nash is the inferior player by far.

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01-05-2013, 05:30 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Definitely not there value-wise. Like someone said, Korpikoski or Boedker would have to be involved which would make it more even. No team in their right mind would trade a first line player for a prospect and a first. When you do these deals, you need some sort of "for sure" piece. We saw it with the Richards trade in Simmonds, the Carter trade in Voracek, and the Kovalchuk trade with Oduya/Bergfors.

The Rangers might actually like a Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik deal better, as Boedker is much more valuable than a 1st round pick that might make it in 3 or 4 years.

Would Rangers fans do Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik?
Would like another piece, but that's a good start.

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01-05-2013, 05:51 PM
  #31
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To New york:
D prospect tyson barrie
D prospect Duncan Siemens
2014 first round pick
To Colorado:
Gabby

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01-05-2013, 05:56 PM
  #32
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Dan Boyle.

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01-05-2013, 06:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post



Nash is the inferior player by far.
It's close. Keep in mind that Gaborik is entering his age-32 season next year while Nash is entering his age-29 season. If Gaborik is indeed better, projected age-related decline will even things out.

Then factor in Gaborik's injury history.

I'd rather have Nash, pretty easily, even if contracts were equal (which they aren't).

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01-05-2013, 07:24 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Definitely not there value-wise. Like someone said, Korpikoski or Boedker would have to be involved which would make it more even. No team in their right mind would trade a first line player for a prospect and a first. When you do these deals, you need some sort of "for sure" piece. We saw it with the Richards trade in Simmonds, the Carter trade in Voracek, and the Kovalchuk trade with Oduya/Bergfors.

The Rangers might actually like a Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik deal better, as Boedker is much more valuable than a 1st round pick that might make it in 3 or 4 years.

Would Rangers fans do Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik?
No PHX fan would offer that or be ok with that. PHX is a small market team I just don't see them being ok with taking on Gaborik's contract.

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01-05-2013, 11:08 PM
  #35
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I would honestly take Gormley and a 1st for Gabby.

Gormley will be a good one, just wish he was a right hand D-man (maybe we could convert him there).

And Kredier isn't overrated. Guy will be a stud in a few years. At the very least, he'll be a 25-25 guy.

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01-05-2013, 11:48 PM
  #36
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No PHX fan would offer that or be ok with that. PHX is a small market team I just don't see them being ok with taking on Gaborik's contract.
Or mortgaging the future for an aging and fragile scoring winger. Particularly with how they play.

Gormley's a stud and the only way PHX makes a move for gaborik is if they can steal him for a vrbata, pick and mid level prospect package. Even then, it's tenuous.

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01-06-2013, 12:28 AM
  #37
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It's close. Keep in mind that Gaborik is entering his age-32 season next year while Nash is entering his age-29 season. If Gaborik is indeed better, projected age-related decline will even things out.

Then factor in Gaborik's injury history.

I'd rather have Nash, pretty easily, even if contracts were equal (which they aren't).
3 yrs is a neglible difference between the two imo.

Gaborik injuries are also exaggerated IMO. He hasn't been that bad with the Rangers, now that his shoulder seems to be re-developed.

One player had 42g and 76 pts leading a division winner in scoring, the other had 59 pts on a terrible team being spoonfed minutes.

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01-06-2013, 12:32 AM
  #38
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I would honestly take Gormley and a 1st for Gabby.

Gormley will be a good one, just wish he was a right hand D-man (maybe we could convert him there).

And Kredier isn't overrated. Guy will be a stud in a few years. At the very least, he'll be a 25-25 guy.
Taking only a prospect and a pick doesn't make sense for the Rangers. They need a young forward as well that can play on the third line.

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01-06-2013, 12:34 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
3 yrs is a neglible difference between the two imo.

Gaborik injuries are also exaggerated IMO. He hasn't been that bad with the Rangers, now that his shoulder seems to be re-developed.

One player had 42g and 76 pts leading a division winner in scoring, the other had 59 pts on a terrible team being spoonfed minutes.
This is 3 prime years. Gaborik is past prime and WILL accumulate more injuries.

Nash was spoonfed minutes? He was essentially playing on his own and always has.

Anyways, no team will give the Rangers good value for Gabby, especially since he has 1 year left and especially if the cap is 60 mil.

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01-06-2013, 12:35 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jphizzleruzbizzle View Post
To New york:
D prospect tyson barrie
D prospect Duncan Siemens
2014 first round pick
To Colorado:
Gabby
Take out Siemens for McGinn or Downie and I'd do it.

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01-06-2013, 12:36 AM
  #41
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Taking only a prospect and a pick doesn't make sense for the Rangers. They need a young forward as well that can play on the third line.
You need a 3rd line player? There are dozens looking for contracts any given year. Rangers don't need a 3rd liner included in the deal.

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01-06-2013, 12:38 AM
  #42
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This is 3 prime years. Gaborik is past prime and WILL accumulate more injuries.
Proof? And how is he past his prime when he was one off a career high in goals last year?

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Nash was spoonfed minutes? He was essentially playing on his own and always has.
Excuses, his point production was quite lackluster for a 'star player'. Gaborik's put up better numbers with garbage in Minnesota for years and Christensen in his 1st yr with the Rangers.

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Anyways, no team will give the Rangers good value for Gabby, especially since he has 1 year left and especially if the cap is 60 mil.
There will definitely be demand for high octane, goal scoring wingers. Gaborik is one of the best at that and will give the Rangers a good return.

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01-06-2013, 12:40 AM
  #43
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You need a 3rd line player? There are dozens looking for contracts any given year. Rangers don't need a 3rd liner included in the deal.
Why don't they?

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01-06-2013, 12:48 AM
  #44
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Or mortgaging the future for an aging and fragile scoring winger. Particularly with how they play.

Gormley's a stud and the only way PHX makes a move for gaborik is if they can steal him for a vrbata, pick and mid level prospect package. Even then, it's tenuous.
I don't understand how Gaborik won't go to a certain team because of their playing style.

He's played under Jacques Lemaire's trap for many years and put up multiple 35g+, PPG seasons.

He then goes into Torts' 6 goalie system and still produces. He has been no stranger to defense-oriented hockey teams.

I think Gaborik would be a great option as a go-to offensive forward.

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01-06-2013, 01:01 AM
  #45
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I don't think the NYR fans really understand that if Gaborik gets traded it will be because they have to trade him due to cap issues. That is the only way it would make any sense at all for the Rangers to trade him.

Gaborik has a high cap hit and 1 season left on his contract. Gaborik is getting paid 7.5 million in real cash next season most small market team just cannot afford to pay him that much while losing cost controlled top prospects as they need cost controlled players.

A young team just are not going to trade away their future for 1 season of Gaborik. It just makes no sense for them.

As you can see most offers for Gaborik are not by the teams own fans it's just random fans of other teams.

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01-06-2013, 01:08 AM
  #46
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I don't think the NYR fans really understand that if Gaborik gets traded it will be because they have to trade him due to cap issues. That is the only way it would make any sense at all for the Rangers to trade him.
The Rangers have zero cap issues as far as I'm concerned.

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Gaborik has a high cap hit and 1 season left on his contract. Gaborik is getting paid 7.5 million in real cash next season most small market team just cannot afford to pay him that much while losing cost controlled top prospects as they need cost controlled players.
Gaborik isn't a rental player. They have control of him for 2 full seasons. He doesn't have 1 yr left on his contract.

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A young team just are not going to trade away their future for 1 season of Gaborik. It just makes no sense for them.
A team that wants to take the next step should definitely look into improving an area of weakness to strengthen their team.

Phoenix in particular lost Ray Whitney, over 70 pts of production. Do they expect Steve Sullivan to replicate those numbers?

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01-06-2013, 01:18 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Proof? And how is he past his prime when he was one off a career high in goals last year?



Excuses, his point production was quite lackluster for a 'star player'. Gaborik's put up better numbers with garbage in Minnesota for years and Christensen in his 1st yr with the Rangers.



There will definitely be demand for high octane, goal scoring wingers. Gaborik is one of the best at that and will give the Rangers a good return.
Statistically he's at an age where most players fall off. There's a LOT of statistics to back that up. Certainly not a guarantee, but more likely than not.

Gaborik did not outperform Nash while he was in Minnesota. He also had a better team.

There won't be much demand for a player with a cap hit of $7.5M that costs you a 1st, a top prospect, and a young scorer in a year where the cap is going down to 60M. Teams have their own free agents, and those young players on ELC are worth their weight in gold. He won't be the final piece to put a team over the top for any of the teams with the cap space to sign him.

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01-06-2013, 01:26 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The Rangers have zero cap issues as far as I'm concerned.



Gaborik isn't a rental player. They have control of him for 2 full seasons. He doesn't have 1 yr left on his contract.



A team that wants to take the next step should definitely look into improving an area of weakness to strengthen their team.

Phoenix in particular lost Ray Whitney, over 70 pts of production. Do they expect Steve Sullivan to replicate those numbers?
This season will not be a full season if there is even one. So it would be 1 full season and possibly a partial season. I still am not sold there will be a season this year and actually would prefer if they just started off new next season.

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01-06-2013, 01:28 AM
  #49
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Statistically he's at an age where most players fall off. There's a LOT of statistics to back that up. Certainly not a guarantee, but more likely than not.
He's 32, I'd say 27-32 is the prime years of a player's career.

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Gaborik did not outperform Nash while he was in Minnesota. He also had a better team.
Explain?

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There won't be much demand for a player with a cap hit of $7.5M that costs you a 1st, a top prospect, and a young scorer in a year where the cap is going down to 60M. Teams have their own free agents, and those young players on ELC are worth their weight in gold. He won't be the final piece to put a team over the top for any of the teams with the cap space to sign him.
What would you expect in return for Perry/Getzlaf as a Ducks fan?

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01-06-2013, 01:56 AM
  #50
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He's 32, I'd say 27-32 is the prime years of a player's career.



Explain?



What would you expect in return for Perry/Getzlaf as a Ducks fan?
Statistically you'd be wrong, and he's at the tail end of it regardless.

The better players part is self explanatory, look at the number of 20/30 goal scorers and centers Minnesota Gaborik played with vs Nash. As far as their play, look at Gaborik's goal scoring vs Nash's. the numbers are very decidedly in Nash's favor. Gaborik had one season over 40G, three at 30G and only one more of 30+G. Nash has 2 over 40G, one at 30G and 4 more with 30+G or more. They're snipers, I don't care about assists, especially with the team talent disparity. Gaborik also played 65 or fewer games 4 of the 8 seasons he was in Minnesota. You really can't argue he outplayed Nash.

Edit -GPG for both is 0.43

I'd want a 1st, a top prospect, and a top 6 player. However - both are 5 years younger, on far cap friendlier contracts which expire before the cap takes a massive drop (which is a plus and a minus), and have been told by just about the entire boards that they aren't worth that much. Simply as players, Perry>Gaborik at this point, so is Getzlaf (assuming last year was an aberration due to his home life and the overall team slump).


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